<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	
	>
<channel>
	<title>
	Comments on: Shab indaqs fiz-zwieg	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2008/06/shab-indaqs-fiz-zwieg/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2008/06/shab-indaqs-fiz-zwieg/</link>
	<description>Daphne Caruana Galizia is a journalist working in Malta.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 05 Nov 2011 17:32:12 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>
	hourly	</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>
	1	</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.4</generator>
	<item>
		<title>
		By: freethinker		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2008/06/shab-indaqs-fiz-zwieg/#comment-9876</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[freethinker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 07:36:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=463#comment-9876</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@John Schembri: I do not see the point of your latest contribution.  Alphabet and language are two separate things.  In theory, one could have devised an alphabet that is neither the Latin nor the Arabic to write Maltese.  M.A. Vassalli had, in fact, invented special letters which never caught on and had to be discarded. Z with and without dot is used as two quite distinct letters.  In Italian, the &quot;z&quot; may express two phonemes; either z as in &quot;pizza&quot; or z as in &quot;gazzetta&quot;.  It never has the sound of our dotted z which in Italian is written with an &quot;s&quot; e.g. &quot;casa&quot;.  In fact, for the z as in gazzetta, our alphabet is deficient and we do not have a letter for this sound just as we do not have a letter for the phoneme transliterated as &quot;zh&quot; and occurs in such words as &quot;television&quot; which is usually inaptly spelt &quot;televixin&quot;.  Maltese alphabet is basically phonetic but imperfectly so because of these deficiencies.

I do not know why you say &quot;Lebanese hamza&quot;.  As far as I know, the hamza is pronounced the same in all Arabic dialects.  It is known as the &quot;glottal stop&quot; and is present in many languages though it is not written.  In the emphatic exclamation &quot;Is that so?&quot;, many would actually start the phrase with the glottal stop.  It also replaces the &quot;t&quot; in cockney English.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@John Schembri: I do not see the point of your latest contribution.  Alphabet and language are two separate things.  In theory, one could have devised an alphabet that is neither the Latin nor the Arabic to write Maltese.  M.A. Vassalli had, in fact, invented special letters which never caught on and had to be discarded. Z with and without dot is used as two quite distinct letters.  In Italian, the &#8220;z&#8221; may express two phonemes; either z as in &#8220;pizza&#8221; or z as in &#8220;gazzetta&#8221;.  It never has the sound of our dotted z which in Italian is written with an &#8220;s&#8221; e.g. &#8220;casa&#8221;.  In fact, for the z as in gazzetta, our alphabet is deficient and we do not have a letter for this sound just as we do not have a letter for the phoneme transliterated as &#8220;zh&#8221; and occurs in such words as &#8220;television&#8221; which is usually inaptly spelt &#8220;televixin&#8221;.  Maltese alphabet is basically phonetic but imperfectly so because of these deficiencies.</p>
<p>I do not know why you say &#8220;Lebanese hamza&#8221;.  As far as I know, the hamza is pronounced the same in all Arabic dialects.  It is known as the &#8220;glottal stop&#8221; and is present in many languages though it is not written.  In the emphatic exclamation &#8220;Is that so?&#8221;, many would actually start the phrase with the glottal stop.  It also replaces the &#8220;t&#8221; in cockney English.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: John Schembri		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2008/06/shab-indaqs-fiz-zwieg/#comment-9875</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Schembri]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 23:15:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=463#comment-9875</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Daphne: I got this from the Malta University website , there are quite a lot of references to Lebanese (which is a language), regarding the z without a dot may I ask you how one would write in your Maltese : a lame person?
Maltese Alphabet									Maltese		Lebanese		English
There are 29 letters in the Maltese Alphabet- 24 consonants, and  vowels (a, e, i, o, u). It is pretty much the Latin alphabet, with the following exceptions:
ċ	like ch in church, or tch in fetch		ċaqċaq		شقشق		to crack
ġ	like g in gem, or Lebanese ج		ġarra		جره		pitcher
g	like g in get, or bedouin ق , or Egyptian  ج		gideb		كزب		to lie
h	is silent like in hour		hawn		هون		here
When in final position, then soft aspirate like in who
ħ	like h in hand, maybe pretty much like the Lebanese ح		setaħ		سطح سطيحة		terrace	Tripoli accent, again!
j	like y in yellow		jaħasra		يا حسره		alas, poor fellow
x	like sh in shape		Xuereb		شوارب		moustache
ż	like z in zebra		żahra		زهره		flower
z	the Italian z, but has two different sounds. Like z in zorro and like ts in nuts		zekzek		تزقزق		to hiss
q	Mostly like a soft Lebanese hamza ( a&#039;) like our Qaf in Lebanon		qabad		أبض		seize, take, keep
Few regions in Malta pronounce it a q, like do people in Druze Mountains, and Syria	qabda		قبضة		capture, handful
għ	Ragarded as a single letter in Maltese. It is silent or pronounced
1)	Pronounced like ħ ( equivalent to the Lebanese ع or  غ )
in final position in certain verbs		Żebagħ		صبغ		painted]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Daphne: I got this from the Malta University website , there are quite a lot of references to Lebanese (which is a language), regarding the z without a dot may I ask you how one would write in your Maltese : a lame person?<br />
Maltese Alphabet									Maltese		Lebanese		English<br />
There are 29 letters in the Maltese Alphabet- 24 consonants, and  vowels (a, e, i, o, u). It is pretty much the Latin alphabet, with the following exceptions:<br />
ċ	like ch in church, or tch in fetch		ċaqċaq		شقشق		to crack<br />
ġ	like g in gem, or Lebanese ج		ġarra		جره		pitcher<br />
g	like g in get, or bedouin ق , or Egyptian  ج		gideb		كزب		to lie<br />
h	is silent like in hour		hawn		هون		here<br />
When in final position, then soft aspirate like in who<br />
ħ	like h in hand, maybe pretty much like the Lebanese ح		setaħ		سطح سطيحة		terrace	Tripoli accent, again!<br />
j	like y in yellow		jaħasra		يا حسره		alas, poor fellow<br />
x	like sh in shape		Xuereb		شوارب		moustache<br />
ż	like z in zebra		żahra		زهره		flower<br />
z	the Italian z, but has two different sounds. Like z in zorro and like ts in nuts		zekzek		تزقزق		to hiss<br />
q	Mostly like a soft Lebanese hamza ( a&#8217;) like our Qaf in Lebanon		qabad		أبض		seize, take, keep<br />
Few regions in Malta pronounce it a q, like do people in Druze Mountains, and Syria	qabda		قبضة		capture, handful<br />
għ	Ragarded as a single letter in Maltese. It is silent or pronounced<br />
1)	Pronounced like ħ ( equivalent to the Lebanese ع or  غ )<br />
in final position in certain verbs		Żebagħ		صبغ		painted</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Amanda Mallia		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2008/06/shab-indaqs-fiz-zwieg/#comment-9874</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Amanda Mallia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 21:11:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=463#comment-9874</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If you look at his Wikipedia entry, his mother is incidental, too, being mentioned simply as &quot;Grace&quot;:

&quot;Family
Muscat is the son of Saviour Muscat and Grace. Muscat is married to Michelle née Tanti, and they have twins: Etoile Ella and Soleil Sophie.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you look at his Wikipedia entry, his mother is incidental, too, being mentioned simply as &#8220;Grace&#8221;:</p>
<p>&#8220;Family<br />
Muscat is the son of Saviour Muscat and Grace. Muscat is married to Michelle née Tanti, and they have twins: Etoile Ella and Soleil Sophie.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Amanda Mallia		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2008/06/shab-indaqs-fiz-zwieg/#comment-9873</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Amanda Mallia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 14:55:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=463#comment-9873</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Daphne - How could I forget them!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daphne &#8211; How could I forget them!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: freethinker		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2008/06/shab-indaqs-fiz-zwieg/#comment-9872</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[freethinker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 08:00:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=463#comment-9872</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I am totally fascinated how this subject keeps cropping up from time to time to testify to our lingering crisis of identity, a phenomenon that has been with us for centuries after our contact with Islamic civilization was severed and we slowly shifted back to the European Christian world and later were ruled for three centuries by a religious chivalric Order.  A peculiar history indeed.

There is confusion as to what is an Arab.  Arabs are those who came from where there is the peninsula where Saudi Arabia is in the Arabian Gulf.  Probably, only a minority of North africans are really Arabs.  Many are of Berber and Moorish origin and the population is ethnically heterogenous just as we are and most Mediterraneans are.  There is a not negligible element of European genes in countries like Tunisia too. By the time the &quot;Arabs&quot; took Malta, these blitzkrieg conquerors were already a mixture of Arab-speaking Muslims not necessarily all carrying Arab genes.  Few people in Malta, who are not well-informed, understand this. Minds are confused and misinformation and old wives tales abound.

@Daphne: So far, you are the only one with a clear and informed view of things here (possibly me too). We differ in that I think that phonetic alphabets are the simplest.  About Caruana surname, your theory could be right but needs support. If you&#039;re right, Muscat could fall in the same category.

@europarl: in fact, the revisionists are those who believe (know, rather) that Maltese is a Maghrebin dialect - the two most important early scholars of Maltese, de Soldanis and Vassalli, both held Maltese to be Punic but Vassalli later realized it was Arabic and so does every professional linguist today. There is not even any indication of a Punic substratum in Maltese. Maltese is just the most romanized Arabic dialect just as the speech of Pantelleria is the most Arabicized Italian dialect. This pseudo-theory of Punic origins needs to be put to rest for ever - it is just false, period.  At one time, it was thought the megalithic temples were Phoenician, the language was Punic and the Maltese are latter-day Phoenicians.  All nonsense.  Please, let&#039;s stop thinking of Punic origins.

@Kev: Maltese is derived from the Maghreb dialects.  One sure indication is the way the verb is conjugated and there is little more fundamental than verbs.  It is more a question of morphology and semantics than vocabulary alone. You contribution (pardon me for saying it) has so many fallacies, it would take too long to tackle here.  Gahan or his equivalent is found in the folklore of all Mediterranean countries.  There is no such thing as &quot;Arabicized Punic&quot;.

That&#039;s all for now.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am totally fascinated how this subject keeps cropping up from time to time to testify to our lingering crisis of identity, a phenomenon that has been with us for centuries after our contact with Islamic civilization was severed and we slowly shifted back to the European Christian world and later were ruled for three centuries by a religious chivalric Order.  A peculiar history indeed.</p>
<p>There is confusion as to what is an Arab.  Arabs are those who came from where there is the peninsula where Saudi Arabia is in the Arabian Gulf.  Probably, only a minority of North africans are really Arabs.  Many are of Berber and Moorish origin and the population is ethnically heterogenous just as we are and most Mediterraneans are.  There is a not negligible element of European genes in countries like Tunisia too. By the time the &#8220;Arabs&#8221; took Malta, these blitzkrieg conquerors were already a mixture of Arab-speaking Muslims not necessarily all carrying Arab genes.  Few people in Malta, who are not well-informed, understand this. Minds are confused and misinformation and old wives tales abound.</p>
<p>@Daphne: So far, you are the only one with a clear and informed view of things here (possibly me too). We differ in that I think that phonetic alphabets are the simplest.  About Caruana surname, your theory could be right but needs support. If you&#8217;re right, Muscat could fall in the same category.</p>
<p>@europarl: in fact, the revisionists are those who believe (know, rather) that Maltese is a Maghrebin dialect &#8211; the two most important early scholars of Maltese, de Soldanis and Vassalli, both held Maltese to be Punic but Vassalli later realized it was Arabic and so does every professional linguist today. There is not even any indication of a Punic substratum in Maltese. Maltese is just the most romanized Arabic dialect just as the speech of Pantelleria is the most Arabicized Italian dialect. This pseudo-theory of Punic origins needs to be put to rest for ever &#8211; it is just false, period.  At one time, it was thought the megalithic temples were Phoenician, the language was Punic and the Maltese are latter-day Phoenicians.  All nonsense.  Please, let&#8217;s stop thinking of Punic origins.</p>
<p>@Kev: Maltese is derived from the Maghreb dialects.  One sure indication is the way the verb is conjugated and there is little more fundamental than verbs.  It is more a question of morphology and semantics than vocabulary alone. You contribution (pardon me for saying it) has so many fallacies, it would take too long to tackle here.  Gahan or his equivalent is found in the folklore of all Mediterranean countries.  There is no such thing as &#8220;Arabicized Punic&#8221;.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s all for now.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Daphne Caruana Galizia		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2008/06/shab-indaqs-fiz-zwieg/#comment-9871</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Daphne Caruana Galizia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 00:23:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=463#comment-9871</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Mandy, the one with the dotted z is spelt with a double b, not a double p. Don&#039;t you remember the famous student T-shirts in the election campaign?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mandy, the one with the dotted z is spelt with a double b, not a double p. Don&#8217;t you remember the famous student T-shirts in the election campaign?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Amanda Mallia		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2008/06/shab-indaqs-fiz-zwieg/#comment-9870</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Amanda Mallia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 22:12:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=463#comment-9870</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Just to lighten the atmosphere: We&#039;d still need a dotted &quot;z&quot; to distinguish between &quot;zopp&quot; and the &quot;dotted z&quot; version.  Sorry, but I couldn&#039;t resist!  I agree with you entirely about the rest, though, Daphne.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to lighten the atmosphere: We&#8217;d still need a dotted &#8220;z&#8221; to distinguish between &#8220;zopp&#8221; and the &#8220;dotted z&#8221; version.  Sorry, but I couldn&#8217;t resist!  I agree with you entirely about the rest, though, Daphne.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Daphne Caruana Galizia		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2008/06/shab-indaqs-fiz-zwieg/#comment-9869</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Daphne Caruana Galizia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 18:33:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=463#comment-9869</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Kev - something else: Caruana is one of the most common surnames in Malta, and is fairly frequent in Sicily. They all have one thing in common: their ancestors came from Kairouan in Tunisia, one of the largest (and the first) Arab city-strongholds in North Africa.

And do you know that our word for Christmas - Milied - is the word used in Islam for the feast of the birth of Mohammed? And that Randan is a corruption of Ramadan? And that il-Gimgha il-Kbira is Il-Gemgha l-Kbira (the great gathering)? Or that our word for Easter is the Islamic feast of Eid that marks the end of Ramadan?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Kev &#8211; something else: Caruana is one of the most common surnames in Malta, and is fairly frequent in Sicily. They all have one thing in common: their ancestors came from Kairouan in Tunisia, one of the largest (and the first) Arab city-strongholds in North Africa.</p>
<p>And do you know that our word for Christmas &#8211; Milied &#8211; is the word used in Islam for the feast of the birth of Mohammed? And that Randan is a corruption of Ramadan? And that il-Gimgha il-Kbira is Il-Gemgha l-Kbira (the great gathering)? Or that our word for Easter is the Islamic feast of Eid that marks the end of Ramadan?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Corinne Vella		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2008/06/shab-indaqs-fiz-zwieg/#comment-9868</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Corinne Vella]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:38:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=463#comment-9868</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Kev (formerly europarl): “Anki fizikament, il-Lebanizi jixbhu hafna lil Maltin.&quot;
I would have thought it was the other way round. As for the way that paragraph continues &quot;M’ghandhomx xehta ta l-Gharab ta’ l-Afrika ta’ fuq li naraw hawn Malta. Huma nies b’edukazzjoni ferm gholja u b’qalb tad-deheb. In fatti XEJN ma jiehdu gost jithaltu ma Gharab mill-Afrika ta fuq jew minn pajjizi girien taghhom&quot;, how&#039;s that for a sweeping statement that clears the decks of history? &quot;Gharab ta&#039; l-Afrika ta&#039; fuq li naraw hawn Malta&quot; is hardly a scientific sample.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kev (formerly europarl): “Anki fizikament, il-Lebanizi jixbhu hafna lil Maltin.&#8221;<br />
I would have thought it was the other way round. As for the way that paragraph continues &#8220;M’ghandhomx xehta ta l-Gharab ta’ l-Afrika ta’ fuq li naraw hawn Malta. Huma nies b’edukazzjoni ferm gholja u b’qalb tad-deheb. In fatti XEJN ma jiehdu gost jithaltu ma Gharab mill-Afrika ta fuq jew minn pajjizi girien taghhom&#8221;, how&#8217;s that for a sweeping statement that clears the decks of history? &#8220;Gharab ta&#8217; l-Afrika ta&#8217; fuq li naraw hawn Malta&#8221; is hardly a scientific sample.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Daphne Caruana Galizia		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2008/06/shab-indaqs-fiz-zwieg/#comment-9867</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Daphne Caruana Galizia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:33:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=463#comment-9867</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@John Schembri: doing away with dots, ticks, crosses and other signs of linguistic neurosis is not the same thing as writing in text message shorthand. If you remove the dot from the z in zwieg, it&#039;s still zwieg and I imagine that you&#039;re not going to get confused and begin pronouncing it with a hard z.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@John Schembri: doing away with dots, ticks, crosses and other signs of linguistic neurosis is not the same thing as writing in text message shorthand. If you remove the dot from the z in zwieg, it&#8217;s still zwieg and I imagine that you&#8217;re not going to get confused and begin pronouncing it with a hard z.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
	</channel>
</rss>

<!--
Performance optimized by W3 Total Cache. Learn more: https://www.boldgrid.com/w3-total-cache/?utm_source=w3tc&utm_medium=footer_comment&utm_campaign=free_plugin

Object Caching 13/16 objects using Redis
Page Caching using Disk: Enhanced 

Served from: daphnecaruanagalizia.com @ 2026-04-15 13:19:17 by W3 Total Cache
-->