[Daphne – I don’t like your assumption that it was the husband who was bearing the brunt. Janine made the point that BOTH her parents were suffering in their own way, as were the children.]

Forty years ago it was considered a stigma to be mentally ill. So when my mother suferred P.N.D after her first child (with a track record of mental illness in her family) no-one bothered about her, until she deteriorated so much that finally my father realized she needed help. She was diagnosed with scizophrenia, denied she was ill, and used to flush her pills down the loo. She is today a patient at mount carmel.

My point is that with all the ignorance around in those days, my father tried with his limits to help and try to cure her with the best professional help which was available. It was very hard for him to bring up three young children on his own, without outside help, since he kept this as a closed secret.With a business to run, and coming home to find a dirty, untidy home with three unkept children, it surely wasn’t easy. Not once did he resort to violence or abuse, regardless of the verbal abuse he got day in, day out from my mother, due to her paranoia.

In these situations, it’s not easy to pass judgement. Both my parents suffered tremendously, my mother through her illness, and my father through the circumstances.By far it is not easy to live with a mentally ill person and there is a limit to one’s patience. But violence is definately never excused.

[Daphne – I am sorry to hear this, Janine, and particularly sympathetic because a dear friend, also with three children, suffered a similar condition and ended up killing herself at the age of just 31.]

A normal man, if he can’t accept mental illness in his wife, would seek help and counselling. Yes, taking care of a depressed person requires skills that do not come naturally to everyone.

A less courageous man would at the very least separate from his wife and inform someone about her condition, if he can’t deal with her problems himself. At least this would give a chance for others to help.

A total excuse for a man would habitually beat her up for that would be the “macho” thing to do.

However, this is all crap. I would bet on him being the source of her depression. Who wouldn’t be depressed, living with such a violent sod?

[Daphne – That’s exactly what I think: that he and her life with him are the cause of her depression.]

I know of many cases but there is no common factor, one’s wife died , another thought his 50 year old wife was having an affair but admits he needs medicine , another got depressed because his neighbours picked on him, reporting him to the police for inexistent contraventions , another 52 year old guy got sacked and feels useless, another is never happy with the upkeep of her house, another forty something unmarried woman was depressed because she could never find Mr Right , after she got married she killed herself at the age of around fifty, leaving two well adorable children and a loving husband.
On second thoughts; taking life too seriously could be a common factor.It seems that depression never affects happy-go-lucky people.
BTW :Should the healthy ask for the divorce from their sick partners?

[Daphne – Divorce is NOT a quick fix.Why on earth would a healthy person want to divorce a spouse who is ill? What does that have to do with the price of eggs? People seek divorce for one of two reasons only (1) they no longer love their spouse, or (2) their spouse no longer loves them. There is only one reason why a man would regularly and cruelly assault his wife: he is a violent sadist. We are not speaking here about a man who lost his temper after being taunted, picked up something and threw it in a rare moment of loss of self-control. We are speaking about a man who made a habit of pummelling his wife and who encouraged their son to do the same. And please explain to me how your forty-something friend went on to marry and have two children, before killing herself at 50 and leaving, presumably, two babies: did she adopt them, use donor eggs, or what? Or is she just a figment of your imagination?]

[Daphne – Please tell me you’re not serious. Please. What you seem to be advocating here is that the woman stays with the husband who beats her so as not to be left alone. And do I detect an undertow of sympathy for the man who did the beating, because living with a depressed wife must really have taken it out of him? If you know so many depressed people in your immediate circle, perhaps you should ask yourself what the common factor might be. You might find, as I did, that where middle-aged women are concerned, it’s almost always due to lack of control over their life and too much conformity with the expectations of others, and the realisation that half their life has gone by and it hasn’t met their hopes and wishes. Perhaps it’s the same with men. I wouldn’t know, not having known more than a couple who went through it. As for depressed middle-aged women – why, there are lots of those about. And no, I approve of neither shock therapy nor Valium and other anti-depressants. When depression is caused by a situation, it’s the situation that has to change. Drugs and shock therapy are just a way of controlling unhappy people (who, ironically, are only unhappy because they are controlled) without getting to the root cause of the trouble.]

[Daphne – It’s been my observation over several years that when a married woman ends up in that seriously depressed state, it’s almost always as a result of her feelings of helplessness and lack of control over her own life, and a dysfunctional relationship with her husband. Women place a great deal of importance on their relationship with the man in their life. They see it as a sustaining thing, and if it is not sustaining, then it is debilitating. A woman will either turn her anger outwards, towards her husband, or inwards, and become depressed. Some women can fill the void left by an emotionally absent or otherwise neglectful husband by focussing on their relationship with their children or their work, but this poor woman clearly had neither. Yes, of course divorce is a solution in her case, coupled with some serious therapy geared towards building up her self-esteem and dignity, allowing her to face the world and construct a life.]

So, it was her fault she was being abused?

Zizzu: “God, although omnipotent and omniscient, does not interfere with nature”

Brings Woody Allen to thought:
“If it turns out that there IS a God, I don’t think that he’s evil. I think that the worst you can say about him is that basically he’s an underachiever.”

If he does not interfere with nature, what is he up to?

“God knew that this was going to happen, and he probably made sure (his ways are beyond us, we have to admit) that the woman in question was warned.”

What I think of your god, if this is actually true, is probably not mentionable in this blog.

[Daphne – Maybe Zizzu’s idea of God is like Woody Allen’s Jewish mother in the sky – you know, the one who looms large over the streets of Manhattan to nag and warn him about impending disaster.]

[Daphne – “What God has joined together let no man put asunder”: the part of the Christian marriage ceremony that states God’s authority over man. The injuction is taken from Matthew 19:6 (King James Version): Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. I’m assuming that this couple married in church, like almost ever other couple in their late 50s/early 60s.]