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	Comments on: This is what happens without divorce	</title>
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	<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2008/08/this-is-what-happens-without-divorce/</link>
	<description>Daphne Caruana Galizia is a journalist working in Malta.</description>
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		<title>
		By: John Schembri		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2008/08/this-is-what-happens-without-divorce/#comment-13177</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Schembri]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 16:27:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=549#comment-13177</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Mod :Thanks for the informative &#039;advice&#039;. What made me  really mad was that in previous years it was not like this ,separate assessment was separate in the true sense of the word.
Does&quot; community of acquests &quot; apply to bank accounts? In other words if a married person dies ,should the money of the surviving spouse be included as part of the money of the dead spouse?

[Moderator - Community of acquests does exactly what it says on the tin: what&#039;s yours is hers and what&#039;s hers is yours. The only exceptions are legacies and inheritances. So if your mother gives you a cash gift while she is still alive, your wife has an equal claim on it. But if your mother leaves you that same amount by virtue of her last will and testament, it&#039;s yours alone. The legal regime is one of the most important things that should be taught to people entering into marriage, but it isn&#039;t.]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Mod :Thanks for the informative &#8216;advice&#8217;. What made me  really mad was that in previous years it was not like this ,separate assessment was separate in the true sense of the word.<br />
Does&#8221; community of acquests &#8221; apply to bank accounts? In other words if a married person dies ,should the money of the surviving spouse be included as part of the money of the dead spouse?</p>
<p>[Moderator &#8211; Community of acquests does exactly what it says on the tin: what&#8217;s yours is hers and what&#8217;s hers is yours. The only exceptions are legacies and inheritances. So if your mother gives you a cash gift while she is still alive, your wife has an equal claim on it. But if your mother leaves you that same amount by virtue of her last will and testament, it&#8217;s yours alone. The legal regime is one of the most important things that should be taught to people entering into marriage, but it isn&#8217;t.]</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: John Schembri		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2008/08/this-is-what-happens-without-divorce/#comment-13176</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Schembri]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 14:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=549#comment-13176</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Moderator :you wrote  “Yes, that’s right. The bishops want divorce to remain unavailable in Malta, so that it will be unavailable to those who were ‘captured’ into the Catholic Church in infancy.&quot;
I didn&#039;t know that Fr Gouder was a bishop !

[Moderator - I never said he&#039;s a bishop. I said he is unrestrained, and is likely to be the source of a lot of trouble that nobody needs, all in the name of God.]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Moderator :you wrote  “Yes, that’s right. The bishops want divorce to remain unavailable in Malta, so that it will be unavailable to those who were ‘captured’ into the Catholic Church in infancy.&#8221;<br />
I didn&#8217;t know that Fr Gouder was a bishop !</p>
<p>[Moderator &#8211; I never said he&#8217;s a bishop. I said he is unrestrained, and is likely to be the source of a lot of trouble that nobody needs, all in the name of God.]</p>
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		<title>
		By: John Schembri		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2008/08/this-is-what-happens-without-divorce/#comment-13175</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Schembri]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 14:49:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=549#comment-13175</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[What I meant by &quot;recognised by the state&quot; was as far as Social assistance is concerned, they get children&#039;s allowance ,and if they are cheeky they also get an allowance for &#039;unknown father&#039; and other social benefits.
Some people really know the ropes.

[Moderator - That isn&#039;t recognition of couples by the state. Children&#039;s allowance is for the children, regardless of the marital status of their parents.]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I meant by &#8220;recognised by the state&#8221; was as far as Social assistance is concerned, they get children&#8217;s allowance ,and if they are cheeky they also get an allowance for &#8216;unknown father&#8217; and other social benefits.<br />
Some people really know the ropes.</p>
<p>[Moderator &#8211; That isn&#8217;t recognition of couples by the state. Children&#8217;s allowance is for the children, regardless of the marital status of their parents.]</p>
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		<title>
		By: John Schembri		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2008/08/this-is-what-happens-without-divorce/#comment-13174</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Schembri]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 14:39:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=549#comment-13174</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ MOD &quot;You don&#039;t have to have a joint income tax return when you&#039;re married&quot; I tried and checked with IRD and was told that there was no way out.

This is the reply I got from IRD

&quot;Ghaziz Sinjur

Nixtieq ninfurmak li t-total ta’ qlieh li hemm f’kaxxa numru 23 irid jigi iddikjarat kollu jew f’kaxxa 24 d jew 24 e.  Jigifieri dan l-income kollu irid jigi iddikjarat ma minn ghandu l-ghola income.

Ma tistax tintbghat karta ohra tat-taxxa f’isem il-mara tieghek.


Dejjem Tieghek&quot;
 XXXXXXXXXX

I would be very glad if your statement was true.

{Moderator - It is true; you can have separate tax returns. What this civil servant is telling you is that you can&#039;t add income from investments to the lower of the two salaries to get away with paying less tax, the reason being that this income is jointly received also by the person with the higher salary. That&#039;s the trouble with community of acquests: it&#039;s considered one income.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ MOD &#8220;You don&#8217;t have to have a joint income tax return when you&#8217;re married&#8221; I tried and checked with IRD and was told that there was no way out.</p>
<p>This is the reply I got from IRD</p>
<p>&#8220;Ghaziz Sinjur</p>
<p>Nixtieq ninfurmak li t-total ta’ qlieh li hemm f’kaxxa numru 23 irid jigi iddikjarat kollu jew f’kaxxa 24 d jew 24 e.  Jigifieri dan l-income kollu irid jigi iddikjarat ma minn ghandu l-ghola income.</p>
<p>Ma tistax tintbghat karta ohra tat-taxxa f’isem il-mara tieghek.</p>
<p>Dejjem Tieghek&#8221;<br />
 XXXXXXXXXX</p>
<p>I would be very glad if your statement was true.</p>
<p>{Moderator &#8211; It is true; you can have separate tax returns. What this civil servant is telling you is that you can&#8217;t add income from investments to the lower of the two salaries to get away with paying less tax, the reason being that this income is jointly received also by the person with the higher salary. That&#8217;s the trouble with community of acquests: it&#8217;s considered one income.</p>
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		<title>
		By: John Schembri		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2008/08/this-is-what-happens-without-divorce/#comment-13173</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Schembri]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:55:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=549#comment-13173</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Corrinne Vella &#038; Moderator:&quot;They want divorce to be unavailable to everyone&quot;
&quot;Yes, that&#039;s right. The bishops want divorce to remain unavailable in Malta, so that it will be unavailable to those who were &#039;captured&#039; into the Catholic Church in infancy.&quot;
Can you please show us where Archbishop Cremona hinted to such strategy?Did you read this:http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/2008/06/01/acremona.html ?

[Moderator - What the Archbishop says is irrelevant, given that he doesn&#039;t appear able to restrain Anton Gouder, who has embarked on a holy crusade against divorce.]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Corrinne Vella &amp; Moderator:&#8221;They want divorce to be unavailable to everyone&#8221;<br />
&#8220;Yes, that&#8217;s right. The bishops want divorce to remain unavailable in Malta, so that it will be unavailable to those who were &#8216;captured&#8217; into the Catholic Church in infancy.&#8221;<br />
Can you please show us where Archbishop Cremona hinted to such strategy?Did you read this:<a href="http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/2008/06/01/acremona.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/2008/06/01/acremona.html</a> ?</p>
<p>[Moderator &#8211; What the Archbishop says is irrelevant, given that he doesn&#8217;t appear able to restrain Anton Gouder, who has embarked on a holy crusade against divorce.]</p>
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		<title>
		By: John Schembri		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2008/08/this-is-what-happens-without-divorce/#comment-13172</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Schembri]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:33:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=549#comment-13172</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Trevor Zahra :&quot;Why is it that married couples are not allowed to get a divorce, yet nuns and priests are allowed to leave the church and get married - is this not the same principle?&quot;  As a lay person I find that there is a big difference : if a married person wants divorce s/he will involve her partner  in a lot of &#039;unwanted&#039; trouble, while if a priest leaves his priesthood he will not  involve or hurt  anyone.
The Church has no power to dictate about divorce . Divorce is solely the State&#039;s business , and  lay people cannot dictate to the Church on its internal business.....  using the same reasoning.
Trevor you are not comparing like with like , a priest or a nun are considered by the state as &quot;single&quot; and if you are thinking with the lay person&#039;s hat ,keep wearing that hat.

Why are people asking for divorce legislation when they can live together and  are &#039;recognised&#039; by the state (e.g.when they have children)?

Why are people in the first place making a wedding ceremony where they solemnly vow that they will support  each other &quot;till death do (they)us part&quot;?

Nowadays it is not even financially viable to get married formally. While  filling an income tax form lately , I found out that under the section where one declares &quot;other income&quot; , ALL the income from dividends , rent etc is added to the spouse who earns most money even though the income is earned by the other spouse, resulting in a higher tax rate!
In this case  a married couple pays MORE tax than two unmarried persons even though the married couple  chooses a &quot;separate&quot; assessment? How&#039;s that for supporting the &#039;traditional&#039; stable family?

[Moderator - Couples are NOT &quot;recognised by the state&quot;, by which you probably mean that they have special legal status and rights, just because they live together, whether or not they have children. Where did you get this notion? It&#039;s not even the case in the UK, though the myth persists about common-law husbands and wives. You don&#039;t have to have a joint income tax return when you&#039;re married, and you don&#039;t even have to have community of acquests. You can be married and still keep your financial affairs completely independent of your spouse. Community of acquests is the default regime, not the only one, but almost nobody knows this. Married couples can agree to do away with the community of acquests regime by means of a simple notarial document, and still stay married. The spouse who earns much less or even nothing would be crazy to agree to it, but if both spouses earn roughly the same amount, and agree to make all investments jointly, then it should be no bother.]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Trevor Zahra :&#8221;Why is it that married couples are not allowed to get a divorce, yet nuns and priests are allowed to leave the church and get married &#8211; is this not the same principle?&#8221;  As a lay person I find that there is a big difference : if a married person wants divorce s/he will involve her partner  in a lot of &#8216;unwanted&#8217; trouble, while if a priest leaves his priesthood he will not  involve or hurt  anyone.<br />
The Church has no power to dictate about divorce . Divorce is solely the State&#8217;s business , and  lay people cannot dictate to the Church on its internal business&#8230;..  using the same reasoning.<br />
Trevor you are not comparing like with like , a priest or a nun are considered by the state as &#8220;single&#8221; and if you are thinking with the lay person&#8217;s hat ,keep wearing that hat.</p>
<p>Why are people asking for divorce legislation when they can live together and  are &#8216;recognised&#8217; by the state (e.g.when they have children)?</p>
<p>Why are people in the first place making a wedding ceremony where they solemnly vow that they will support  each other &#8220;till death do (they)us part&#8221;?</p>
<p>Nowadays it is not even financially viable to get married formally. While  filling an income tax form lately , I found out that under the section where one declares &#8220;other income&#8221; , ALL the income from dividends , rent etc is added to the spouse who earns most money even though the income is earned by the other spouse, resulting in a higher tax rate!<br />
In this case  a married couple pays MORE tax than two unmarried persons even though the married couple  chooses a &#8220;separate&#8221; assessment? How&#8217;s that for supporting the &#8216;traditional&#8217; stable family?</p>
<p>[Moderator &#8211; Couples are NOT &#8220;recognised by the state&#8221;, by which you probably mean that they have special legal status and rights, just because they live together, whether or not they have children. Where did you get this notion? It&#8217;s not even the case in the UK, though the myth persists about common-law husbands and wives. You don&#8217;t have to have a joint income tax return when you&#8217;re married, and you don&#8217;t even have to have community of acquests. You can be married and still keep your financial affairs completely independent of your spouse. Community of acquests is the default regime, not the only one, but almost nobody knows this. Married couples can agree to do away with the community of acquests regime by means of a simple notarial document, and still stay married. The spouse who earns much less or even nothing would be crazy to agree to it, but if both spouses earn roughly the same amount, and agree to make all investments jointly, then it should be no bother.]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Trevor Zahra		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2008/08/this-is-what-happens-without-divorce/#comment-13171</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Trevor Zahra]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:48:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=549#comment-13171</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Allowing the church to dictate or decide on the issue of the introduction of divorce or not is pathetic. However, I do not think that the church in Malta has as much leverage as it used to have 10 years ago. Getting a divorce is a very simple, but expensive, and I know a few people who have managed this and also remarried (civilly) in Malta. Why is it that married couples are not allowed to get a divorce, yet nuns and priests are allowed to leave the church and get married - is this not the same principle? A case of 2 weights and 2 measures!!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Allowing the church to dictate or decide on the issue of the introduction of divorce or not is pathetic. However, I do not think that the church in Malta has as much leverage as it used to have 10 years ago. Getting a divorce is a very simple, but expensive, and I know a few people who have managed this and also remarried (civilly) in Malta. Why is it that married couples are not allowed to get a divorce, yet nuns and priests are allowed to leave the church and get married &#8211; is this not the same principle? A case of 2 weights and 2 measures!!</p>
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		<title>
		By: D Fenech		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2008/08/this-is-what-happens-without-divorce/#comment-13170</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[D Fenech]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2008 07:08:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=549#comment-13170</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Two points
1. Why marry in church in the first place, if you think that if anything happens to your marriage you have the right to divorce???
2. @Moderator - the point is that you can ban divorce, but you can&#039;t ban the divorce lifestyle, so banning divorce is ultimately pointless.
So, if you adopt this argument, may I ask if you are also in favour of Abortion? It is the same argurment, or not?

[Moderator - The ban on abortion in Malta is qualified by the fact that Maltese girls and women have access to abortion clinics a short, cheap catamaran ride away in Sicily. We have no idea what the real effect of denying abortion to Maltese people might be, because there is no way we are ever going to experience it. There is a difference between banning something and denying people all access to it. Abortion is banned in Malta but Maltese still have very easy access to it. It&#039;s not the same as the lack of divorce legislation, because to get a divorce overseas, you need to be resident there, a complicated, expensive and at times unrealistic process available only to the very few. If you need an abortion, on the other hand, you just hop on a catamaran with your credit card in your pocket or some euros you&#039;ve withdrawn from the cash machine. So yes, banning abortion in Malta is ultimately pointless. The only purpose it serves is to salve our collective conscience and allow us to pretend that nobody in Malta has abortions, even though thousands have done so over the last couple of decades - and that&#039;s just going on the statistics from the London clinics alone.]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two points<br />
1. Why marry in church in the first place, if you think that if anything happens to your marriage you have the right to divorce???<br />
2. @Moderator &#8211; the point is that you can ban divorce, but you can&#8217;t ban the divorce lifestyle, so banning divorce is ultimately pointless.<br />
So, if you adopt this argument, may I ask if you are also in favour of Abortion? It is the same argurment, or not?</p>
<p>[Moderator &#8211; The ban on abortion in Malta is qualified by the fact that Maltese girls and women have access to abortion clinics a short, cheap catamaran ride away in Sicily. We have no idea what the real effect of denying abortion to Maltese people might be, because there is no way we are ever going to experience it. There is a difference between banning something and denying people all access to it. Abortion is banned in Malta but Maltese still have very easy access to it. It&#8217;s not the same as the lack of divorce legislation, because to get a divorce overseas, you need to be resident there, a complicated, expensive and at times unrealistic process available only to the very few. If you need an abortion, on the other hand, you just hop on a catamaran with your credit card in your pocket or some euros you&#8217;ve withdrawn from the cash machine. So yes, banning abortion in Malta is ultimately pointless. The only purpose it serves is to salve our collective conscience and allow us to pretend that nobody in Malta has abortions, even though thousands have done so over the last couple of decades &#8211; and that&#8217;s just going on the statistics from the London clinics alone.]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Corinne Vella		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2008/08/this-is-what-happens-without-divorce/#comment-13169</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Corinne Vella]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 10:39:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=549#comment-13169</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Chris Buttigieg: Exercising that right is not possible as things stand. When divorce is available people have a choice. When it isn&#039;t, they don&#039;t.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris Buttigieg: Exercising that right is not possible as things stand. When divorce is available people have a choice. When it isn&#8217;t, they don&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Corinne Vella		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2008/08/this-is-what-happens-without-divorce/#comment-13168</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Corinne Vella]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 07:51:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=549#comment-13168</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[John Schembri: The bishops&#039; concern is not just with their flock. They want divorce to be unavailable to everyone. They could adopt a different strategy and simply preach to their flock not to fall into temptation. Witholding divorce on the grounds that it might affect Catholics is like introducing a blanket ban on sex in case people commit adultery.

[Moderator - Yes, that&#039;s right. The bishops want divorce to remain unavailable in Malta, so that it will be unavailable to those who were &#039;captured&#039; into the Catholic Church in infancy.]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John Schembri: The bishops&#8217; concern is not just with their flock. They want divorce to be unavailable to everyone. They could adopt a different strategy and simply preach to their flock not to fall into temptation. Witholding divorce on the grounds that it might affect Catholics is like introducing a blanket ban on sex in case people commit adultery.</p>
<p>[Moderator &#8211; Yes, that&#8217;s right. The bishops want divorce to remain unavailable in Malta, so that it will be unavailable to those who were &#8216;captured&#8217; into the Catholic Church in infancy.]</p>
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