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	Comments on: Neatly summed up	</title>
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	<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2009/02/neatly-summed-up/</link>
	<description>Daphne Caruana Galizia is a journalist working in Malta.</description>
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		<title>
		By: Moggy		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2009/02/neatly-summed-up/#comment-22515</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Moggy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 19:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=1913#comment-22515</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve found this, and it basically explains everything:

http://www.dinlarthelwa.org/index2.php?option=com_content&#038;do_pdf=1&#038;id=329

It was first to be a 3 storey building in the courtyard, and that&#039;s were I got somewhat confused. Later, it was to be the glass roof - which sounds OK.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve found this, and it basically explains everything:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.dinlarthelwa.org/index2.php?option=com_content&#038;do_pdf=1&#038;id=329" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.dinlarthelwa.org/index2.php?option=com_content&#038;do_pdf=1&#038;id=329</a></p>
<p>It was first to be a 3 storey building in the courtyard, and that&#8217;s were I got somewhat confused. Later, it was to be the glass roof &#8211; which sounds OK.</p>
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		<title>
		By: john		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2009/02/neatly-summed-up/#comment-22514</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[john]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 19:12:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=1913#comment-22514</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Moggy   How fascinating. I wonder if I may be so bold as to enquire who your ancestor was?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Moggy   How fascinating. I wonder if I may be so bold as to enquire who your ancestor was?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Moggy		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2009/02/neatly-summed-up/#comment-22513</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Moggy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 19:03:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=1913#comment-22513</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Daphne, you do have a habit of jumping to conclusions about one! I KNOW ( I need italics!) that the main excavation was to be under St John&#039;s Square and that there are no old cemeteries thereunder. But - what, exactly, was going to happen in the churchyard (Merchant&#039;s Street), where there is/was a cemetery? What was the glass roofing meant to be roofing as such? Was there to be a structure built in the courtyard? If there were to be no excavations in the courtyard, what was there to be? How large was the visitors&#039; centre to be? And here, I am asking questions.

Note that up until now I have always discussed the excavation on St John&#039;s Square, which I regard as risky. I have NEVER included the courtyard problem in my arguments.

&lt;strong&gt;[Daphne - The roofing in the courtyard was intended to provide shelter for tourists standing in vast queues waiting to go in - the queues you see on the steps in front of the Law Courts. The structure was to be a light one made of glass and something else - obviously not completely of glass as it wouldn&#039;t have been much use against the sun. I&#039;m rushing out now, but when I get back I will dig out the details and post them for you to read - either tonight or tomorrow morning, depending on the situation. Basically, the foundation wanted to put an end to those queues and get people to enter through Merchants Street instead.]&lt;/strong&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daphne, you do have a habit of jumping to conclusions about one! I KNOW ( I need italics!) that the main excavation was to be under St John&#8217;s Square and that there are no old cemeteries thereunder. But &#8211; what, exactly, was going to happen in the churchyard (Merchant&#8217;s Street), where there is/was a cemetery? What was the glass roofing meant to be roofing as such? Was there to be a structure built in the courtyard? If there were to be no excavations in the courtyard, what was there to be? How large was the visitors&#8217; centre to be? And here, I am asking questions.</p>
<p>Note that up until now I have always discussed the excavation on St John&#8217;s Square, which I regard as risky. I have NEVER included the courtyard problem in my arguments.</p>
<p><strong>[Daphne &#8211; The roofing in the courtyard was intended to provide shelter for tourists standing in vast queues waiting to go in &#8211; the queues you see on the steps in front of the Law Courts. The structure was to be a light one made of glass and something else &#8211; obviously not completely of glass as it wouldn&#8217;t have been much use against the sun. I&#8217;m rushing out now, but when I get back I will dig out the details and post them for you to read &#8211; either tonight or tomorrow morning, depending on the situation. Basically, the foundation wanted to put an end to those queues and get people to enter through Merchants Street instead.]</strong></p>
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		<title>
		By: Moggy		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2009/02/neatly-summed-up/#comment-22512</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Moggy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 18:09:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=1913#comment-22512</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think it&#039;s not walking over the bodies which bothers people as much as removing the bodies from their resting place and excavating (is it going to be three storeys - I&#039;m finding it hard to differentiate fact from fiction at this point?) into the yard. Walking over bodies does not bother me in the least.

&lt;strong&gt;[Daphne - Oh my God, Moggy, honestly! With this comment, you have just illustrated how shocking the misinformation has been, and how terrible it is that people - even people with a science background like yourself - have actually made up their minds without knowing what in heaven&#039;s name it was all about. Over and above that, you have been following the debate on this site for the last two weeks or more, and you still haven&#039;t picked up the basics of the project.

1. The excavation was to take place beneath St John&#039;s Square, where there are now cafes. There are no bodies buried there. It was never a cemetery. Before the war, there were private houses standing there.

2. There was to be no excavation in the churchyard - just a light roofing structure mainly of glass, ticketing booths and a small visitor centre.

3. FAA is claiming that there was to be excavation within the cathedral for a lift shaft. No. Wrong. The hollow space is there already.

If you are finding it hard to distinguish fact from fiction, this is because you didn&#039;t do what a person with an academic background in science would have done: gone straight to the source instead of listening to gossip from third parties. You could have gone to the cathedral and examined the exhibition about the project. Or you could have read the articles and letters written by the curator, rather than those written by third parties who were not involved.]&lt;/strong&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s not walking over the bodies which bothers people as much as removing the bodies from their resting place and excavating (is it going to be three storeys &#8211; I&#8217;m finding it hard to differentiate fact from fiction at this point?) into the yard. Walking over bodies does not bother me in the least.</p>
<p><strong>[Daphne &#8211; Oh my God, Moggy, honestly! With this comment, you have just illustrated how shocking the misinformation has been, and how terrible it is that people &#8211; even people with a science background like yourself &#8211; have actually made up their minds without knowing what in heaven&#8217;s name it was all about. Over and above that, you have been following the debate on this site for the last two weeks or more, and you still haven&#8217;t picked up the basics of the project.</p>
<p>1. The excavation was to take place beneath St John&#8217;s Square, where there are now cafes. There are no bodies buried there. It was never a cemetery. Before the war, there were private houses standing there.</p>
<p>2. There was to be no excavation in the churchyard &#8211; just a light roofing structure mainly of glass, ticketing booths and a small visitor centre.</p>
<p>3. FAA is claiming that there was to be excavation within the cathedral for a lift shaft. No. Wrong. The hollow space is there already.</p>
<p>If you are finding it hard to distinguish fact from fiction, this is because you didn&#8217;t do what a person with an academic background in science would have done: gone straight to the source instead of listening to gossip from third parties. You could have gone to the cathedral and examined the exhibition about the project. Or you could have read the articles and letters written by the curator, rather than those written by third parties who were not involved.]</strong></p>
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		<title>
		By: Moggy		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2009/02/neatly-summed-up/#comment-22511</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Moggy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 17:50:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=1913#comment-22511</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This is all very interesting, John. Thanks for the detailed explanation. One of my ancestors may, therefore, lie just below his own tombstone - unless it was moved around! If the bones from Birgu were moved to the Cemetery of the Yard (Merchants Street) then don&#039;t you think that it would have, indeed, been a pity if this were destroyed and anything erected on top of it?

[&lt;strong&gt;Daphne - May I barge in? Even working on the hypothesis that all the bodies taken to the Valletta yard from Birgu were still there, Moggy, how would roofing the yard with a temporary, removable structure of a lightweight frame and, glass and having people walk over the yard - which, incidentally, they do already - be any different to what occurs over the bodies buried beneath the cathedral floor? I am not trying to be a challenging nuisance here. I ask because I genuinely cannot understand. I detect that your reaction is an emotional one, but it is not consistent. If it is all right to walk over the dead in the cathedral, then it is all right to walk over the dead outside the cathedral. I honestly believe that when people expressed outrage at the thought of &#039;walking over the bodies&#039; they genuinely failed to make the connection with what happens INSIDE the cathedral - walking over bodies, whole tour groups with guides and cameras, congregations sitting on top of the bodies on their little wooden chairs, and so on. It just didn&#039;t click.]&lt;/strong&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is all very interesting, John. Thanks for the detailed explanation. One of my ancestors may, therefore, lie just below his own tombstone &#8211; unless it was moved around! If the bones from Birgu were moved to the Cemetery of the Yard (Merchants Street) then don&#8217;t you think that it would have, indeed, been a pity if this were destroyed and anything erected on top of it?</p>
<p>[<strong>Daphne &#8211; May I barge in? Even working on the hypothesis that all the bodies taken to the Valletta yard from Birgu were still there, Moggy, how would roofing the yard with a temporary, removable structure of a lightweight frame and, glass and having people walk over the yard &#8211; which, incidentally, they do already &#8211; be any different to what occurs over the bodies buried beneath the cathedral floor? I am not trying to be a challenging nuisance here. I ask because I genuinely cannot understand. I detect that your reaction is an emotional one, but it is not consistent. If it is all right to walk over the dead in the cathedral, then it is all right to walk over the dead outside the cathedral. I honestly believe that when people expressed outrage at the thought of &#8216;walking over the bodies&#8217; they genuinely failed to make the connection with what happens INSIDE the cathedral &#8211; walking over bodies, whole tour groups with guides and cameras, congregations sitting on top of the bodies on their little wooden chairs, and so on. It just didn&#8217;t click.]</strong></p>
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		<title>
		By: John		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2009/02/neatly-summed-up/#comment-22510</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 17:03:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=1913#comment-22510</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Moggy
The &quot;elaborate gravestones&quot; lie over individual graves which we walk over. The Crypt is something else, entered from the Oratory area where the majority were buried. The Cemetery of the Yard (Merchants street side) is something else again, and it was to this burial place that the bones from Birgu were transported.

In the 19th century a misguided exercise was carried out whereby many of the &quot;elaborate gravestones&quot; were moved around to make a &quot;prettier pattern&quot;. No record exists of precisely what they did, so now we don&#039;t know for certain whether some particular tombstones tally with the individual buried beneath.

Some decades ago the skeleton beneath Mattia Preti&quot;s tombstone was exhumed, and on examination it was decided that it corresponded with the age at death of the artist.
The skeleton was re-interred in a new coffin (made of wood from his home town of Taverna, as I recall).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Moggy<br />
The &#8220;elaborate gravestones&#8221; lie over individual graves which we walk over. The Crypt is something else, entered from the Oratory area where the majority were buried. The Cemetery of the Yard (Merchants street side) is something else again, and it was to this burial place that the bones from Birgu were transported.</p>
<p>In the 19th century a misguided exercise was carried out whereby many of the &#8220;elaborate gravestones&#8221; were moved around to make a &#8220;prettier pattern&#8221;. No record exists of precisely what they did, so now we don&#8217;t know for certain whether some particular tombstones tally with the individual buried beneath.</p>
<p>Some decades ago the skeleton beneath Mattia Preti&#8221;s tombstone was exhumed, and on examination it was decided that it corresponded with the age at death of the artist.<br />
The skeleton was re-interred in a new coffin (made of wood from his home town of Taverna, as I recall).</p>
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		<title>
		By: Moggy		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2009/02/neatly-summed-up/#comment-22509</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Moggy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 16:21:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=1913#comment-22509</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[John, you seem to know what you&#039;re talking about, so I&#039;ll ask you this question: What about the elaborate &quot;gravestones&quot; making up the floor of the Cathedral? Do they, in fact, lie over graves, or do they just mark the presence of the particular bodies in the crypt? I, too, was under the impression that burials actually took part in a crypt under St John&#039;s - but then someone wrote something here about us walking on top of the graves in the cathedral after the bones were brought over from Birgu..........so I was wondering, what is the truth?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, you seem to know what you&#8217;re talking about, so I&#8217;ll ask you this question: What about the elaborate &#8220;gravestones&#8221; making up the floor of the Cathedral? Do they, in fact, lie over graves, or do they just mark the presence of the particular bodies in the crypt? I, too, was under the impression that burials actually took part in a crypt under St John&#8217;s &#8211; but then someone wrote something here about us walking on top of the graves in the cathedral after the bones were brought over from Birgu&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.so I was wondering, what is the truth?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Harry Purdie		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2009/02/neatly-summed-up/#comment-22508</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Harry Purdie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 16:02:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=1913#comment-22508</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I am convinced that this Chickie and Mr. Catania would make a lovely couple.

&lt;strong&gt;[Daphne - By that, do you mean Miss Meilaq or James Tyrrell&#039;s feathered friend?]&lt;/strong&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am convinced that this Chickie and Mr. Catania would make a lovely couple.</p>
<p><strong>[Daphne &#8211; By that, do you mean Miss Meilaq or James Tyrrell&#8217;s feathered friend?]</strong></p>
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		<title>
		By: Mintoff could help solve the riddle...		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2009/02/neatly-summed-up/#comment-22507</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mintoff could help solve the riddle...]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 15:38:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=1913#comment-22507</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hi Daphne,

Please have a look at Joe Grima&#039;s comment to:

http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20090226/local/valletta-underground-network-studies-may-lead-to-review-of-plans-for-st-georges-square


Joe Grima (6 hours, 57 minutes ago)
I remember that on the first day I entered the Prime Minister&#039;s office at Castille Mintof f showed me a huge book of plans that outlined the entire underground tunnelling network beneath the Capital as created by the Knights of St John before Valletta was actually built. That huge book of plans must still be in existence and will provide the Minstrry with much needed information aboiut Valletta&#039;s underground tunneling system.

&lt;strong&gt;[Daphne - Saw it. This country is unbelievable, with everyone trading on rumour and hearsay. These are matters of recorded fact, not of speculation.]&lt;/strong&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Daphne,</p>
<p>Please have a look at Joe Grima&#8217;s comment to:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20090226/local/valletta-underground-network-studies-may-lead-to-review-of-plans-for-st-georges-square" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20090226/local/valletta-underground-network-studies-may-lead-to-review-of-plans-for-st-georges-square</a></p>
<p>Joe Grima (6 hours, 57 minutes ago)<br />
I remember that on the first day I entered the Prime Minister&#8217;s office at Castille Mintof f showed me a huge book of plans that outlined the entire underground tunnelling network beneath the Capital as created by the Knights of St John before Valletta was actually built. That huge book of plans must still be in existence and will provide the Minstrry with much needed information aboiut Valletta&#8217;s underground tunneling system.</p>
<p><strong>[Daphne &#8211; Saw it. This country is unbelievable, with everyone trading on rumour and hearsay. These are matters of recorded fact, not of speculation.]</strong></p>
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		<title>
		By: John		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2009/02/neatly-summed-up/#comment-22506</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 15:02:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=1913#comment-22506</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks Daphne. As they say - it&#039;s all academic now. Or is it?

&lt;strong&gt;[Daphne - I think it&#039;s a matter now of trying to find a less effective solution.]&lt;/strong&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Daphne. As they say &#8211; it&#8217;s all academic now. Or is it?</p>
<p><strong>[Daphne &#8211; I think it&#8217;s a matter now of trying to find a less effective solution.]</strong></p>
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