The last comment is an example of what happens when I try to make a coherent argument on a Monday morning. Just ignore the first sentence completely, please.

It’s not a matter of waiting long for a foetus risking being born alive after a failed aborI doubt we will agree much on the abortion question, but we definitely agree on the support for mothers. Being a father of a four month old baby I’m very well aware of the lack of support offered for young parents, especially in terms of daycare facilities. In our case we have been lucky in the sense that my wife got allowance from her work to stay home for the first year before going back to work and I have a salary which we can live on (although purchasing a property just before conceiving was very ill-timed), but many parents don’t. Maybe I’m spoiled coming from a country with very well functioning welfare functions and a long maternal and paternal leave, but I can’t think of many arguments against it.tion

Also… I mentioned the grieving young girls being forced by their parents to get abortions as an example. We allow them to get abortions without parental consent, and clinics even encourage them to lie about their ages to avoid detection by their parents or the law (that’s been caught on video). But we don’t offer them the same protection when they want to carry to term. I’d like to see equal protection for those women who want to keep their children. And perhaps some sort of support like France has where leave from work is extended and aid offered for women who want to have children. France is probably doing this because their birth rate is so low, but I’d still like to see it in the U.S. Or maybe we should be doing this ourselves as one Jewish group in Israel does. They offer to pay for everything for the first year for women in crisis. I admire that.

Pat, that isn’t true. The Born Alive Infant Protection Act of Illinois was identical to the federal law which passed unanimously. Obama didn’t vote for it because (his own words) “it might undermine the woman’s initial decision to abort.” Yep, ending up with a live baby might indeed do that.

I don’t know why anyone would wait so long that their baby could be born alive in the first place — perhaps a fetal abnormality that only showed up late in the game? But in any case, the act was not vague or unspecific at all. It contained the same clear language as the federal one.

Megan:
Whether the Florida abortion doctor’s are properly vetted or not is a side issue. Of course these things should be regulated, which is something I take for granted they are in general. I can’t relate to the case you are referring to as I don’t know about it, but people avoiding rules, having bad medical outcomes is an argument for increased control and supervision, not an argument against abortion.

You also bring in grieving young girls, being forced into abortion. Again, why is this an argument against abortion? There are numerous girls being forced to go through the entire pregnancy against their will, for either their peers values, or the values of the society they live in.

The Born Alive Infant Protection Act was voted down due to being too unspecific. If a foetus is aborted and there is actually a muscular contraction while being extracted, the Act would have deemed it manslaughter. To vote in that act, the entire chapter on abortion law would FIRST have to be completely restructured.

You also challenge to come up with a reason for late term abortion. Why late term? I can’t speak for Daphne, but personally I’m against late term abortion (I’m not medically trained and hence can’t give you a defining period for that) except in life threatening cases.

Abortion is an incredibly sensitive subject and there is no doubt that it is (and possibly should be) extremely emotional to go through with. I think every normal woman going through with an abortion are going through a difficult and despairing choice, but there is no reason why we should make it even harder. Make sure they make an informed choice, make sure they have all the facts and make sure they have the proper knowledge to properly plan their future family.

The point I’d like to make is that whether a zygote is or is not a human yet is not the point. Once you determine that abortion is allowable, you will eventually end up where we now are in the U.S. Third trimester abortions being performed for the sake of convenience. And let me define convenience in this instance. Yes, it’s a painful, three-day ordeal, but women are getting them in Kansas because they’re scared of the labor process and a little depressed, not because their babies are deformed or their health is at stake. Once you open the door to abortions that seem reasonable like first trimester abortions for rape victims, it’s only a matter of time before you end up where we are now. That is why I want to warn you against allowing it in Malta. Let women go to Italy or elsewhere if you must, but DON’T change Maltese law. A constitutional amendment is not such a bad idea from where I stand, having watched 35 years of supposed “progress.”

I am the mother of four children, aged 18, 17, 15, and 12. So yes, I have had four nine year olds, two of them girls. I do not know the specifics of the woman in Brazil’s situation, so perhaps that was not a wise example to use to make my point about how people will lie to do what they want when it comes to abortion. What I was trying to say is that death from abortion is not being covered by the media in the United States in any significant way. They try to shove it under the rug. Finally, after many years, the clinic in Hialeah, Florida, is being regulated — and by regulated, I mean inspected and forced to have licensed nurses and doctors perform the abortions rather than office managers catching the baby as it slips out while the woman waits in the waiting room as happened in a recent abortion facility here. Prior to this recent turn of events, abortion facilities went largely unregulated and that is why Christina’s research is so important.

Daphne, you are too quick to judge the people who are taking their valuable time to write to you. You should listen more than you jump to conclusions. Read what I am saying, not what I am not saying. Late term abortion is legal in my country. It is not legal in yours. You do not know what I know. You have not counseled grieving young girls who felt they had no options and were forced to abort by their parents. I am thrilled that your country does not have the same laws regarding abortion as mine does. I’m considering moving to Malta for that reason alone. You’re not hearing what I’m saying. Until you have watched helplessly as your future president votes against legislation called the Born Alive Infant Protection Act, you don’t know what this is like. (Why should there even have to BE such a thing? Does not a child born alive after a botched abortion deserve recognition automatically by law? Not in the U.S.!) Our president does not believe a baby born alive should stay alive. He has said it would “undermine the woman’s initial decision.” And the woman made the initial decision because she was not informed correctly about gestational age, fetal development, etc., because our country does not force abortion clinics to offer women this information. Well, actually, that may have changed this week. I can only hope the legislation passes or did pass while I was out of town.

I can’t convince you that abortion is immoral because you don’t seem to believe it matters whether something is moral or not. But if you lived in my culture, you might feel differently. I am just suggesting that you consider other people’s points of view. Others who may be older and wiser. Were you even born in 1973 when Roe v. Wade occurred in the U.S.? I was. And my friend Norma was Jane Roe. She is now pro-life and says she was victimized by choicers in ’73.

Believe what you like, blog about what you want. It’s your choice to do that and that’s fine. But when you tell me you think I’m some Maltese man from Gift of Life or that I’m delusional or whatever else you said, you are just wasting your breath. Insulting me does not convince me that you are right to welcome abortion to Malta. Come up with a decent reason for late term abortion, please. Tell me why George Tiller performs them on perfectly formed seven month fetuses for no reason other than nervousness on the part of the mother. Explain to your nine-year-old child why women are allowed to kill their babies for no reason in the third trimester in Kansas, USA. What possible reasons could you come up with? There are none. While I’ll give you that the nine-year-old girl in Brazil was caught between a rock and a hard place, the types of situations we face here in the U.S. are much more clear cut. Abortion for convenience at any stage gestation. That is just not right. If you want Malta to go that direction as you seem to suggest you do, all I can say is that you will be sorry when you’re 45 and watching your country’s morals shot to hell. It’s not a pretty sight. Not for me or for my children. I only wish Norma had foreseen this and not allowed herself to fall victim to an idealistic group of former hippies that had the wrong ideals in place.

Think what you like of me, you will probably be wrong. I came at this with a very open mind. I began as a pro-choicer who took someone to an abortion clinic to have an abortion. Somewhere along the way, after listening to pro-life people over coffee and reading, reading, reading — articles in medical journals mostly — I realized we were all being duped by feminists (and I AM one!) and by men in the U.S. who, as a group, find it makes more sense to offer abortions than prenatal care and maternity leave to the women who work for them — a quick fix to a problem rather than a long term solution that offers life to a child.

One more thing. This is not a religious issue. It’s a human rights issue. You don’t have to be a Catholic or Christian or Muslim or any other religion to believe abortion — especially third trimester abortion — is abhorrent.

A gamete only has half a fork, half a knife, half a plate etc. It is still at half cock.

You still haven’t understood it. Re-read what I wrote above.