I can imagine what you went through. I heard several shocking stories.

“it would surely stall if the whole population were LGBT”

But it isn’t and will never be. The LGBT community is a minority, has always been and will always be. No matter what they tell you, John, being gay is not contagious and you can’t really make someone gay or influence him into becoming one. Take it from me: God knows society tried to make me straight.

“3. For this argument you first need to back up the claim that homosexual couples are by fiat unstable.”
I don’t want to be personal, so I put the question this way:
“Whose children shall we provide to prove that homosexual couples make good adoptive parents? Don’t these children have any rights? Wouldn’t we be treating them like objects?”

I wouldn’t let mine be adopted by gays. So please count me out.

I gave a look at the economic side because it seems here that no one cares about the financial and economic repercussions these measures bring with them.

Our economy thrives if heterosexuals decide to have babies. It would surely stall if the whole population were LGBT. Sorry if I am sounding cruel but this is the reality.

[Daphne – Homosexual people can and do have children, John. They don’t have their reproductive organs ripped out at birth. The problem of sterility seems to affect rather large numbers of heterosexual people, on the other hand, largely because they wait around until they’re in their 30s to try for a baby.]

I think Joseph Muscat was stating what many people in Malta think about gay marriage. We approve of it but without the right for adoption. No big deal!

Naturally there will be financial burdens and these should be quantified, like in all other measures our governments deem fit to introduce in our country.

What an incredibly callous observation. People are not currency.

1. How can you be certain there would be only one bread winner? Even the norm for heterosexual couples are moving towards two income families.

2. Whether we allow gay marriages or not, homosexuals can not reproduce by anything but heterosexual means. Encouraging gay marriage should make no difference.

3. For this argument you first need to back up the claim that homosexual couples are by fiat unstable.

You are spot on with your final observation though. While heterosexual couples are moving slowly away from traditional marriage values, homosexual couples struggle for them.

@ Daphne’
I would certainly not approve the other way round as well. The right way is a father and a mother.

Your arguments have so many holes in them I will not even attempt to patch them up for you. I actually thought that you were trying to be funny or sarcastic at first. Kif jghidu a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Before you reach your conclusion I think you need to read up on the subject a little or at least have a good chat with someone who knows more.

There are actually strong econonmic arguments as to why governments should opt for providing legal protection for same-sex relationships. They are not gospel truth, of course, but neither are they of the Malta Svizzera fil-Mediterran genre.

I am struggling to understand how you reached the conclusion that a gay couple will SURELY have a bread winner and a stay at home whatever (to do what exactly? watch telenovelas? imur/tmur xi coffee morning? paint the living room pink?). They may well opt for that set up but I can assure for most it s a luxury we simply cannot afford.

When my partner (yes that ‘s what I refer to him in certain contexts normally it’s by his first name that I call him) and I tried to settle in Malta and he did not manage to get a work permit, he did everything he could to get out and about and keep himself generally useful and nominally sane.

The situation played havoc with our finances. Still we look back upon that time fondly, it was simply rather stressful. We wish we would have enjoyed Malta more but that’s life for you. When we realised it was not going to work out , we we did not sit down and have a good cry nor did we give in to self pity. We took stock of the situation and moved on to a place where we could both be productive.

EU membeship as it turned out had nothing to do with our move in terms of freedom of movement etc. Still, it helps to know that when we need to move again we have the option of settling in many places where we can get him a residence/work permit on the basis of our relationship. It would be nice if one day that place could also be Malta. We still consider the rock our home, keep a place there, and would both love to spend time there again.

@ David S

Thanks for your understanding (and i am not being sarcastic I truly appreciated you saying so). Like I said I am very, very grateful that we are EU citizens. But now that I am an EU citizen I would like my country to follow EU recommendations and follow in the steps of more enlightened and more developed and more civilised fellow member states. I do not particularly want us to go for gay marriage I understand that this can offend sensitivities I would be happy with a legal framework that would give me and my partnership certain basic rights that you take for granted.

Your choice of the word ‘repulsive’ is unfortunate and so is your embarrassment at dykes and queens. Dykes and queens do not choose to be dykes and queens. You come across as rather intolerant of people who look different. David, you may not realise it but homophobia essentially describes your reaction. I am not saying you are homophobic but you certainly do not come across as being very comfortable with gay people – or only comfortable if they “look” straight and no different to you. Which is just sad.

I understand the arguments against having an LBGT section and the reasoning that it can marginalise people etc Myself, I choose to see a half-full glass rather than a half empty one. The section, with all its faults, increases visibility, sends an important message and may get things moving in our country. I am not saying that people should switch political allegiance simply because the PL has an LGBT section that is something completely different.

@ Daphne

I don’t see how my outlook on life has anything to do with this. All I am saying is that it would be nice (actually it would be more than nice) if Malta moved on and followed in the footsteps of more enlightened EU member states. Why is it so hard for us to reach the conclusion that it would be nice if Malta seriously contemplated enacting legislation that: a) would make the lives of people who wish to divorce and remarry easier b) the lives of people like me who capriciously choose to have a relationship with someone who is not an EU citizen easier.

[Daphne – Of course it would be nice if Malta were to move on. But if anyone out there thinks an LGBT section in the Labour Party is a sign of impending gay marriage, they need their head examined. You’re talking about Joseph Muscat here, the man who can’t even commit his party to the introduction of divorce when it is in government. The only difference between the Labour Party and the Nationalist Party on this score is that the first talks but won’t do, while the second doesn’t even bother talking because so far it has no intention of doing. I actually prefer the second way of doing things, because it’s more honest. I can’t stand bullsh*t.]

1)The gay couple will surely have a bread winner and a stay home partner (sorry for using this dreaded word Daphne). If the breadwinner dies the stay home partner would get the right for a ‘widows’ pension.That’s an extra cost for the exchequer.

2) Malta’s only resoarce is the human resoarce-that’s why we hand out stipends to our students- without this resoarce , Malta’s economy would be doomed to failure. We can only get this precious resoarce when heterosexuals decide to have babies.Countries with low nativity rates encourage heterosexual ( I need to rub it in here) couples to have children by handing out generous money handouts and tax deductions. Encouraging gay marriage would not help to make things better.

3)It is not fair for the kid to be procreated by a hetersexual couple and than be adopted by a gay couple.Children need a stable family , when one of the natural parents is missing from their lives children already would start suffering and would need special attention.Child adoption by gay couples would add this cost which the welfare state can do without.

BTW Joseph is against the adoption of children by gay couples.

While there is this ‘progressive’ trend in Malta for couples to co-habitate and shun formal weddings , we have a formal section in the the LP who want the right to tie the knot.