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	Comments on: Religion and the Fatherland (Religio et Patria) – time to get rid of that one	</title>
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	<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2011/06/religion-and-the-fatherland-religio-et-patria-%e2%80%93-time-to-get-rid-of-that-one/</link>
	<description>Daphne Caruana Galizia is a journalist working in Malta.</description>
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		<title>
		By: pietru		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2011/06/religion-and-the-fatherland-religio-et-patria-%e2%80%93-time-to-get-rid-of-that-one/#comment-85611</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pietru]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jun 2011 15:59:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=11916#comment-85611</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2011/06/religion-and-the-fatherland-religio-et-patria-%e2%80%93-time-to-get-rid-of-that-one/#comment-85560&quot;&gt;silvio&lt;/a&gt;.

The Constitutional Party dissolved mainly because of infighting, particularly between members of the Strickland family. Most Stricklandjani started voting Labour just after WWII. Even Lord Strickland&#039;s daughter (not Mable, of course) was a candidate on Mintoff&#039;s Labour Party ticket in the 1950s. The few Stricklandjani that were left formed another party that was split In the 1950s, with Mabel forming her own party. Mabel&#039;s party survived into the 1960s. The maternal side of my family staunchly supported Strickland in the 20s and 30s, but started voting Labour in the 40s. They supported Labour all along, and they seemed to have a love-hate relationship with Mintoff, lauding him for some of his stands (mostly Church-related as well as on issues related to social problems and such), and despising him for others (such as corruption/circles within circles). By the way, a great number of Lord Strickland&#039;s supporters had little admiration for Mabel.....]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2011/06/religion-and-the-fatherland-religio-et-patria-%e2%80%93-time-to-get-rid-of-that-one/#comment-85560">silvio</a>.</p>
<p>The Constitutional Party dissolved mainly because of infighting, particularly between members of the Strickland family. Most Stricklandjani started voting Labour just after WWII. Even Lord Strickland&#8217;s daughter (not Mable, of course) was a candidate on Mintoff&#8217;s Labour Party ticket in the 1950s. The few Stricklandjani that were left formed another party that was split In the 1950s, with Mabel forming her own party. Mabel&#8217;s party survived into the 1960s. The maternal side of my family staunchly supported Strickland in the 20s and 30s, but started voting Labour in the 40s. They supported Labour all along, and they seemed to have a love-hate relationship with Mintoff, lauding him for some of his stands (mostly Church-related as well as on issues related to social problems and such), and despising him for others (such as corruption/circles within circles). By the way, a great number of Lord Strickland&#8217;s supporters had little admiration for Mabel&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>
		By: johnnie tal-pipa		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2011/06/religion-and-the-fatherland-religio-et-patria-%e2%80%93-time-to-get-rid-of-that-one/#comment-85610</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[johnnie tal-pipa]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jun 2011 12:40:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=11916#comment-85610</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2011/06/religion-and-the-fatherland-religio-et-patria-%e2%80%93-time-to-get-rid-of-that-one/#comment-85604&quot;&gt;David&lt;/a&gt;.

IT IS VERY TRUE THAT JUDGE MONTANARO GAUCI&#039;S APPOINTMENT WAS POLITICALLY MOTIVATED, HOWEVER THOUGH PROFESSING STRONG IMPERIALIST TENDENCIES HE HAD THE COURAGE TO CONDEMN THE DEPORTATION OF THE PRO-ITALIAN SYMPATHISERS. HE WAS AN HONEST MAN WHOSE INTEGRITY CANNOT BE FAULTED]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2011/06/religion-and-the-fatherland-religio-et-patria-%e2%80%93-time-to-get-rid-of-that-one/#comment-85604">David</a>.</p>
<p>IT IS VERY TRUE THAT JUDGE MONTANARO GAUCI&#8217;S APPOINTMENT WAS POLITICALLY MOTIVATED, HOWEVER THOUGH PROFESSING STRONG IMPERIALIST TENDENCIES HE HAD THE COURAGE TO CONDEMN THE DEPORTATION OF THE PRO-ITALIAN SYMPATHISERS. HE WAS AN HONEST MAN WHOSE INTEGRITY CANNOT BE FAULTED</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Muscat		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2011/06/religion-and-the-fatherland-religio-et-patria-%e2%80%93-time-to-get-rid-of-that-one/#comment-85609</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Muscat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jun 2011 10:52:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=11916#comment-85609</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[With due respect to all concerned, I beg to differ from the historical interpretations found in this correspondence.  I prefer to enlighten my mind reading researched works from historians and intellectuals of repute.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With due respect to all concerned, I beg to differ from the historical interpretations found in this correspondence.  I prefer to enlighten my mind reading researched works from historians and intellectuals of repute.</p>
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		<title>
		By: David		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2011/06/religion-and-the-fatherland-religio-et-patria-%e2%80%93-time-to-get-rid-of-that-one/#comment-85608</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jun 2011 20:23:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=11916#comment-85608</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2011/06/religion-and-the-fatherland-religio-et-patria-%e2%80%93-time-to-get-rid-of-that-one/#comment-85604&quot;&gt;David&lt;/a&gt;.

I understand you have anti-Italy prejudice. However I think the Italian influence in Malta is a fact.

Maltese literature is not only written in Maltese but also in English and Italian. Our national poet Dun Karm started writing poems in Italian and later on in Maltese.

Besides we still have traces of this influence in our language as many still say Strada Rjali, Strada Merkanti    and is-Sette Giugno.

&lt;strong&gt;[Daphne - If there really were Italian influence, then the streets of Valletta would have been Via and not Strada.]&lt;/strong&gt;

Italian till 1934 was the official language of Malta. In fact Italian was the official language of Malta before it was the national language of Italy.

&lt;strong&gt;[Daphne - Precisely because Maltese was not considered a proper or written language, and not because we were influenced by Italy. They cast around and decided to use a language that wasn&#039;t even used next door. It might as well have been Spanish or French.]&lt;/strong&gt;

On the other hand I agree with you that the vast majority of Maltese in the past as is the case today spoke Maltese as their main language.

&lt;strong&gt;[Daphne - All Maltese did, David. Very, very few people spoke Italian. Certain families, that&#039;s all. What you should say is how dreadful it was that people were put on trial in a language (Italin) they did not understand.]&lt;/strong&gt;

During the Italian risorgimento many Italians escaped to Malta. They probably influenced Maltese political leaders.

&lt;strong&gt;[Daphne - No. They influenced certain individuals who were predisposed to it in any case.]&lt;/strong&gt;

In the words of Prof Oliver Friggieri _&quot;Whilst Maltese has the historical priority on the level of the spoken language, Italian has the priority of being the almost exclusive written medium, for the socio-cultural affairs, for the longest period. The native tongue had only to wait for the arrival of a new mentality which could integrate an unwritten, popular
tradition with a written, academically respectable one&quot;

http://www.aboutmalta.com/grazio/trendslit.html

&lt;strong&gt;[Daphne - My point exactly. Except that you forget that around 90% of the population was illiterate, so it made no difference whether Italian was the written language or not. Effectively, Maltese was the only language for 90% of the population, and of the remaining 10%, most knew Italian in the same way that we learned it at school (because they learned it that way - through governesses or teachers). The percentages are very rough, but there you go.]&lt;/strong&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2011/06/religion-and-the-fatherland-religio-et-patria-%e2%80%93-time-to-get-rid-of-that-one/#comment-85604">David</a>.</p>
<p>I understand you have anti-Italy prejudice. However I think the Italian influence in Malta is a fact.</p>
<p>Maltese literature is not only written in Maltese but also in English and Italian. Our national poet Dun Karm started writing poems in Italian and later on in Maltese.</p>
<p>Besides we still have traces of this influence in our language as many still say Strada Rjali, Strada Merkanti    and is-Sette Giugno.</p>
<p><strong>[Daphne &#8211; If there really were Italian influence, then the streets of Valletta would have been Via and not Strada.]</strong></p>
<p>Italian till 1934 was the official language of Malta. In fact Italian was the official language of Malta before it was the national language of Italy.</p>
<p><strong>[Daphne &#8211; Precisely because Maltese was not considered a proper or written language, and not because we were influenced by Italy. They cast around and decided to use a language that wasn&#8217;t even used next door. It might as well have been Spanish or French.]</strong></p>
<p>On the other hand I agree with you that the vast majority of Maltese in the past as is the case today spoke Maltese as their main language.</p>
<p><strong>[Daphne &#8211; All Maltese did, David. Very, very few people spoke Italian. Certain families, that&#8217;s all. What you should say is how dreadful it was that people were put on trial in a language (Italin) they did not understand.]</strong></p>
<p>During the Italian risorgimento many Italians escaped to Malta. They probably influenced Maltese political leaders.</p>
<p><strong>[Daphne &#8211; No. They influenced certain individuals who were predisposed to it in any case.]</strong></p>
<p>In the words of Prof Oliver Friggieri _&#8221;Whilst Maltese has the historical priority on the level of the spoken language, Italian has the priority of being the almost exclusive written medium, for the socio-cultural affairs, for the longest period. The native tongue had only to wait for the arrival of a new mentality which could integrate an unwritten, popular<br />
tradition with a written, academically respectable one&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.aboutmalta.com/grazio/trendslit.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.aboutmalta.com/grazio/trendslit.html</a></p>
<p><strong>[Daphne &#8211; My point exactly. Except that you forget that around 90% of the population was illiterate, so it made no difference whether Italian was the written language or not. Effectively, Maltese was the only language for 90% of the population, and of the remaining 10%, most knew Italian in the same way that we learned it at school (because they learned it that way &#8211; through governesses or teachers). The percentages are very rough, but there you go.]</strong></p>
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		<title>
		By: Christopher Ripard		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2011/06/religion-and-the-fatherland-religio-et-patria-%e2%80%93-time-to-get-rid-of-that-one/#comment-85607</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christopher Ripard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jun 2011 12:22:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=11916#comment-85607</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2011/06/religion-and-the-fatherland-religio-et-patria-%e2%80%93-time-to-get-rid-of-that-one/#comment-85603&quot;&gt;Chris Ripard&lt;/a&gt;.

Do your Muslim friends live lives like yours in Muslim countries, or do they live lives like yours in a Western democracy? (Imagine the last four words in italics, please).

&lt;strong&gt;[Daphne - That was exactly my point, Chris. They live lives like mine outside Muslim countries because IT IS NOT THE RELIGION THAT IS THE PROBLEM. Problems are caused when a religion takes over a country. Malta in the grip of Roman Catholic law would be no different. And so stop it with the stoning. When was anyone last stoned outside Nigeria, Saudi or Iran?]&lt;/strong&gt;

I won&#039;t go into this argument any further, as you are not for turning and as you don&#039;t have any daughters who could marry a Muslim and go live in a Muslim state. Let&#039;s agree to disagree.

&lt;strong&gt;[Daphne - Then it would be up to them, wouldn&#039;t it. The world is full of people who are afraid of diehard Roman Catholics, and I can&#039;t say I blame them.]&lt;/strong&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2011/06/religion-and-the-fatherland-religio-et-patria-%e2%80%93-time-to-get-rid-of-that-one/#comment-85603">Chris Ripard</a>.</p>
<p>Do your Muslim friends live lives like yours in Muslim countries, or do they live lives like yours in a Western democracy? (Imagine the last four words in italics, please).</p>
<p><strong>[Daphne &#8211; That was exactly my point, Chris. They live lives like mine outside Muslim countries because IT IS NOT THE RELIGION THAT IS THE PROBLEM. Problems are caused when a religion takes over a country. Malta in the grip of Roman Catholic law would be no different. And so stop it with the stoning. When was anyone last stoned outside Nigeria, Saudi or Iran?]</strong></p>
<p>I won&#8217;t go into this argument any further, as you are not for turning and as you don&#8217;t have any daughters who could marry a Muslim and go live in a Muslim state. Let&#8217;s agree to disagree.</p>
<p><strong>[Daphne &#8211; Then it would be up to them, wouldn&#8217;t it. The world is full of people who are afraid of diehard Roman Catholics, and I can&#8217;t say I blame them.]</strong></p>
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		<title>
		By: H.P. Baxxter		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2011/06/religion-and-the-fatherland-religio-et-patria-%e2%80%93-time-to-get-rid-of-that-one/#comment-85606</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[H.P. Baxxter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jun 2011 10:56:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=11916#comment-85606</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2011/06/religion-and-the-fatherland-religio-et-patria-%e2%80%93-time-to-get-rid-of-that-one/#comment-85581&quot;&gt;Richard Muscat&lt;/a&gt;.

Friggieri may be a genius, but his reference is always Italy. It was not &quot;il-qawmien tal-kuxjenza politika Maltija&quot; which led to that unfortunate motto, but &quot;il-qawmin ta&#039; kuxjenza politika direttament ispirata mill-Italjanizmu.

Had history taken a different turn, that motto might have been &quot;Res Publica&quot; or &quot;Res Publica Utriusque Nationis&quot; or &quot;Civilisation through industry&quot; or whichever motto suited the flavour of political discourse.

Ours was the worst possible, and it&#039;s spread its dark shadow right through the present day.

Mazzinism laid the foundations of Fascism, and our dame de salon (in the Enlightenment sense) Daphne hit the nail on the head when she said that it&#039;s all about the great divide between those nations which can poke fun at authority, and those which crave authority.

We came down firmly on the side of the cravers, and Mazzinism is precisely that masturbatory glorification of giovine nazione this and that which led to the excesses of Fascism. A sharp-witted British rationalist might have remarked &quot;Risorgimento from what? To rise again implies a death, and Italy never really existed as a political entity except for the Regnum Ithalicum which was more of lose federation of states than a centralised kingdom.&quot;

 &quot;La Giovine Malta&quot; was founded and bankrolled by many Mazzinist Italians of the Giovine Italia circle, and it soaked up Mazzinist rhetoric. I have to be blunt here, but here&#039;s an anecdote: Ugo Mifsud Bonnici is fond of describing how he wept with joy when he saw &quot;il-Gakk Ingliz niezel&quot;.

A cynic might point out how his family built its political fortunes precisely in colonial Malta, run by the evil British, and he wouldn&#039;t be there to regale us with his anecdotes hadn&#039;t it been for British indulgence and British freedoms.

This just to put things historically right.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2011/06/religion-and-the-fatherland-religio-et-patria-%e2%80%93-time-to-get-rid-of-that-one/#comment-85581">Richard Muscat</a>.</p>
<p>Friggieri may be a genius, but his reference is always Italy. It was not &#8220;il-qawmien tal-kuxjenza politika Maltija&#8221; which led to that unfortunate motto, but &#8220;il-qawmin ta&#8217; kuxjenza politika direttament ispirata mill-Italjanizmu.</p>
<p>Had history taken a different turn, that motto might have been &#8220;Res Publica&#8221; or &#8220;Res Publica Utriusque Nationis&#8221; or &#8220;Civilisation through industry&#8221; or whichever motto suited the flavour of political discourse.</p>
<p>Ours was the worst possible, and it&#8217;s spread its dark shadow right through the present day.</p>
<p>Mazzinism laid the foundations of Fascism, and our dame de salon (in the Enlightenment sense) Daphne hit the nail on the head when she said that it&#8217;s all about the great divide between those nations which can poke fun at authority, and those which crave authority.</p>
<p>We came down firmly on the side of the cravers, and Mazzinism is precisely that masturbatory glorification of giovine nazione this and that which led to the excesses of Fascism. A sharp-witted British rationalist might have remarked &#8220;Risorgimento from what? To rise again implies a death, and Italy never really existed as a political entity except for the Regnum Ithalicum which was more of lose federation of states than a centralised kingdom.&#8221;</p>
<p> &#8220;La Giovine Malta&#8221; was founded and bankrolled by many Mazzinist Italians of the Giovine Italia circle, and it soaked up Mazzinist rhetoric. I have to be blunt here, but here&#8217;s an anecdote: Ugo Mifsud Bonnici is fond of describing how he wept with joy when he saw &#8220;il-Gakk Ingliz niezel&#8221;.</p>
<p>A cynic might point out how his family built its political fortunes precisely in colonial Malta, run by the evil British, and he wouldn&#8217;t be there to regale us with his anecdotes hadn&#8217;t it been for British indulgence and British freedoms.</p>
<p>This just to put things historically right.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AP		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2011/06/religion-and-the-fatherland-religio-et-patria-%e2%80%93-time-to-get-rid-of-that-one/#comment-85605</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AP]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jun 2011 03:06:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=11916#comment-85605</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The idea of State and Church separation is a noble one, but the idea of seperating politics and religion is not.

To me this seems impossible to achieve and should not be attempted. Everyone has a universal view of all things and that constitutes religion.

This applies even to atheist or liberal secularists who at the end of the day embrace another particular view and thus &#039;religion&#039; of their own. Political beliefs emanate from such a universal view and hence it is only natural that political parties should also reflect such ideas.

With regards to Christiany and Catholicism it is true that sometimes terms are interchanged. At the same time one has to remember that demochristian thinking saw its beginning with the hugely inspiring encyclical by the name of Rerum Novarum in the late 19th century.

Catholicism with its social doctrine influences politics even up to this day. Concepts heavily in use and fought for such as that of subsidiarity was formally developed in Rerum Novarum and from then onwards a string of encyclical by other popes continued to build and formulate the Church&#039;s Social Doctrine which is considered an influential source for many people.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The idea of State and Church separation is a noble one, but the idea of seperating politics and religion is not.</p>
<p>To me this seems impossible to achieve and should not be attempted. Everyone has a universal view of all things and that constitutes religion.</p>
<p>This applies even to atheist or liberal secularists who at the end of the day embrace another particular view and thus &#8216;religion&#8217; of their own. Political beliefs emanate from such a universal view and hence it is only natural that political parties should also reflect such ideas.</p>
<p>With regards to Christiany and Catholicism it is true that sometimes terms are interchanged. At the same time one has to remember that demochristian thinking saw its beginning with the hugely inspiring encyclical by the name of Rerum Novarum in the late 19th century.</p>
<p>Catholicism with its social doctrine influences politics even up to this day. Concepts heavily in use and fought for such as that of subsidiarity was formally developed in Rerum Novarum and from then onwards a string of encyclical by other popes continued to build and formulate the Church&#8217;s Social Doctrine which is considered an influential source for many people.</p>
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		<title>
		By: David		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2011/06/religion-and-the-fatherland-religio-et-patria-%e2%80%93-time-to-get-rid-of-that-one/#comment-85604</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jun 2011 21:12:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=11916#comment-85604</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2011/06/religion-and-the-fatherland-religio-et-patria-%e2%80%93-time-to-get-rid-of-that-one/#comment-85560&quot;&gt;silvio&lt;/a&gt;.

I see no value in resurrecting the old Italy vs England cultural and political dispute.  This dispute is largely dead and buried and its relics are only found in football allegiances.  Many Maltese today, I suspect, have no idea who Lord Strickland was.

&lt;strong&gt;[Daphne - Wrong. If you think attitudes can change in even two generations, you are mistaken. Whether my sons know who Lord Strickland was or not (I use them purely as an example, given that I have used myself as one in this discussion) is irrelevant. The fact remains that my great grandparents brought up my grandparents, my grandparents brought up my parents, my parents brought me up, and I brought up my sons. The attitudes which shape our politics, our mentality, our believes, our way of thinking, everything, get passed down the line, whether we are aware of it or not. The Maltese cultural division between Italy and Britain is not really between Italy and Britain but between different mentalities and attitudes, the one being closer to British &#039;thinking&#039; and attitudes and the other being closer to Italian &#039;thinking&#039; and attitudes. The division would not be so obvious were not the two social cultures - Britain&#039;s and Italy&#039;s - so very different. And I&#039;m not talking food or fashion, either. I literally cannot understand some of my fellow Maltese; they might as well be from a different country. And they can&#039;t understand me.]&lt;/strong&gt;

Dr Herbert Ganado has written on this subject in Rajt Malta Tinbidel, and explained that Maltese intellectual society had, till the British arrived in Malta, a strong Italian cultural influence.

&lt;strong&gt;[Daphne - It didn&#039;t. He said that because he was fervently pro-Italian and sought to propagate the myth. The reality is that Herbert Ganado was not a social historian or academic and had no way of knowing what Maltese society was like from the 11th century to the beginning of the 19th. He relied on hearsay and wishful thinking - and propaganda.]&lt;/strong&gt;

Italian was the language of the Courts in Malta till 1934, notaries used to write contracts in Italian and Masses were said in Latin till the 1960s. The pro-Italian professional classes were opposed to the British, who naturally sought to spread British culture and therefore eliminate Italian cultural influence.

[&lt;strong&gt;Daphne - Masses were said in Latin the world over before Vatican-mandated democratisation, David. It was the language of the Roman Catholic Church. Latin is not &#039;Italy&#039; or even a form of Italian. As for the language of the courts being Italian and notaries writing contracts in that language, I was embroiled in an argument about that the other night. I pointed out that notaries wrote contracts in Latin between the 14th and 18th centuries in Malta, but that does not mean that anyone spoke the language. It was merely the formal &#039;recording&#039; language, just as classical Arabic is throughout the Arab world, though nobody actually speaks it. Post Latin, Italian became the formal &#039;recording language&#039; in Malta for one reason only: Maltese was not a written language. It was, however, the spoken language, which is why we speak Maltese today and not Italian, and the people who speak Italian here do so because they learnt it off the television and not at home. Italian was spoken in the home by very, very few people, and it was largely an affectation. The situation was in no way comparable to the use of English post the arrival of the British, for the simple reason that English then became a functional language in what was, after all, a British colony. You had to use English and it made sense to learn it. Malta was never an Italian colony and the use of Italian here was anomalous. Our contact was with Sicily, where Italian was not spoken except in a formal context.]&lt;/strong&gt;

The British had appointed a British Chief Justice. It is said that lawyers protested and refused to attend cases before this British judge.  They argued that an English judge would not know Maltese law, which is very different from British  law. So  a Maltese Chief Justice was then appointed.

&lt;strong&gt;[Daphne - David, when you&#039;re talking about these things, it&#039;s important to be specific. History is not gossip and context is all.&lt;/strong&gt;]

As regards your great uncle judge, to my knowledge he was one of Lord Strickland&#039;s lawyers and was appointed a judge at a young age. Many lawyers, owing to his pro-British sympathies, did not attend his inauguration ceremony. Nevertheless he was reputed a competent  judge.

&lt;strong&gt;[Daphne - Yes, some lawyers were extremely envious and reacted in a petty, childish and unbecoming manner. But there you go; what&#039;s new. He was more than a competent judge. He was rather a good one.]&lt;/strong&gt;

I think Dr Ganado also states that in the past Italian was widely spoken in Sliema, and now English has substituted  Italian.

&lt;strong&gt;[Daphne - Utter and absolute rubbish. I don&#039;t know why you rely on Herbert Ganado when you&#039;re talking to somebody who grew up there at a time when Sliema was still completely unchanged from Herbert Ganado&#039;s time. I never heard a word of Italian, not even among the oldest generations. Herbert Ganado&#039;s family spoke Italian, yes, but his children certainly don&#039;t. I would know, because I grew up a few doors away from one of his sons, in the same street.]&lt;/strong&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2011/06/religion-and-the-fatherland-religio-et-patria-%e2%80%93-time-to-get-rid-of-that-one/#comment-85560">silvio</a>.</p>
<p>I see no value in resurrecting the old Italy vs England cultural and political dispute.  This dispute is largely dead and buried and its relics are only found in football allegiances.  Many Maltese today, I suspect, have no idea who Lord Strickland was.</p>
<p><strong>[Daphne &#8211; Wrong. If you think attitudes can change in even two generations, you are mistaken. Whether my sons know who Lord Strickland was or not (I use them purely as an example, given that I have used myself as one in this discussion) is irrelevant. The fact remains that my great grandparents brought up my grandparents, my grandparents brought up my parents, my parents brought me up, and I brought up my sons. The attitudes which shape our politics, our mentality, our believes, our way of thinking, everything, get passed down the line, whether we are aware of it or not. The Maltese cultural division between Italy and Britain is not really between Italy and Britain but between different mentalities and attitudes, the one being closer to British &#8216;thinking&#8217; and attitudes and the other being closer to Italian &#8216;thinking&#8217; and attitudes. The division would not be so obvious were not the two social cultures &#8211; Britain&#8217;s and Italy&#8217;s &#8211; so very different. And I&#8217;m not talking food or fashion, either. I literally cannot understand some of my fellow Maltese; they might as well be from a different country. And they can&#8217;t understand me.]</strong></p>
<p>Dr Herbert Ganado has written on this subject in Rajt Malta Tinbidel, and explained that Maltese intellectual society had, till the British arrived in Malta, a strong Italian cultural influence.</p>
<p><strong>[Daphne &#8211; It didn&#8217;t. He said that because he was fervently pro-Italian and sought to propagate the myth. The reality is that Herbert Ganado was not a social historian or academic and had no way of knowing what Maltese society was like from the 11th century to the beginning of the 19th. He relied on hearsay and wishful thinking &#8211; and propaganda.]</strong></p>
<p>Italian was the language of the Courts in Malta till 1934, notaries used to write contracts in Italian and Masses were said in Latin till the 1960s. The pro-Italian professional classes were opposed to the British, who naturally sought to spread British culture and therefore eliminate Italian cultural influence.</p>
<p>[<strong>Daphne &#8211; Masses were said in Latin the world over before Vatican-mandated democratisation, David. It was the language of the Roman Catholic Church. Latin is not &#8216;Italy&#8217; or even a form of Italian. As for the language of the courts being Italian and notaries writing contracts in that language, I was embroiled in an argument about that the other night. I pointed out that notaries wrote contracts in Latin between the 14th and 18th centuries in Malta, but that does not mean that anyone spoke the language. It was merely the formal &#8216;recording&#8217; language, just as classical Arabic is throughout the Arab world, though nobody actually speaks it. Post Latin, Italian became the formal &#8216;recording language&#8217; in Malta for one reason only: Maltese was not a written language. It was, however, the spoken language, which is why we speak Maltese today and not Italian, and the people who speak Italian here do so because they learnt it off the television and not at home. Italian was spoken in the home by very, very few people, and it was largely an affectation. The situation was in no way comparable to the use of English post the arrival of the British, for the simple reason that English then became a functional language in what was, after all, a British colony. You had to use English and it made sense to learn it. Malta was never an Italian colony and the use of Italian here was anomalous. Our contact was with Sicily, where Italian was not spoken except in a formal context.]</strong></p>
<p>The British had appointed a British Chief Justice. It is said that lawyers protested and refused to attend cases before this British judge.  They argued that an English judge would not know Maltese law, which is very different from British  law. So  a Maltese Chief Justice was then appointed.</p>
<p><strong>[Daphne &#8211; David, when you&#8217;re talking about these things, it&#8217;s important to be specific. History is not gossip and context is all.</strong>]</p>
<p>As regards your great uncle judge, to my knowledge he was one of Lord Strickland&#8217;s lawyers and was appointed a judge at a young age. Many lawyers, owing to his pro-British sympathies, did not attend his inauguration ceremony. Nevertheless he was reputed a competent  judge.</p>
<p><strong>[Daphne &#8211; Yes, some lawyers were extremely envious and reacted in a petty, childish and unbecoming manner. But there you go; what&#8217;s new. He was more than a competent judge. He was rather a good one.]</strong></p>
<p>I think Dr Ganado also states that in the past Italian was widely spoken in Sliema, and now English has substituted  Italian.</p>
<p><strong>[Daphne &#8211; Utter and absolute rubbish. I don&#8217;t know why you rely on Herbert Ganado when you&#8217;re talking to somebody who grew up there at a time when Sliema was still completely unchanged from Herbert Ganado&#8217;s time. I never heard a word of Italian, not even among the oldest generations. Herbert Ganado&#8217;s family spoke Italian, yes, but his children certainly don&#8217;t. I would know, because I grew up a few doors away from one of his sons, in the same street.]</strong></p>
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		<title>
		By: Chris Ripard		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2011/06/religion-and-the-fatherland-religio-et-patria-%e2%80%93-time-to-get-rid-of-that-one/#comment-85603</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris Ripard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jun 2011 21:12:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=11916#comment-85603</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Islam doesn&#039;t bother people? Ask the women - unless they&#039;ve already been stoned - who have to put up with it!

&lt;strong&gt;[Daphne - That&#039;s not Islam. Widen your horizons a little, Chris, come on. My Muslim women friends live lives identical to my own. What you&#039;re talking about is the equivalent of what would happen if the Vatican were to take over the running of, say, Malta. ]&lt;/strong&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Islam doesn&#8217;t bother people? Ask the women &#8211; unless they&#8217;ve already been stoned &#8211; who have to put up with it!</p>
<p><strong>[Daphne &#8211; That&#8217;s not Islam. Widen your horizons a little, Chris, come on. My Muslim women friends live lives identical to my own. What you&#8217;re talking about is the equivalent of what would happen if the Vatican were to take over the running of, say, Malta. ]</strong></p>
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		<title>
		By: David		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2011/06/religion-and-the-fatherland-religio-et-patria-%e2%80%93-time-to-get-rid-of-that-one/#comment-85602</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jun 2011 20:32:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=11916#comment-85602</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2011/06/religion-and-the-fatherland-religio-et-patria-%e2%80%93-time-to-get-rid-of-that-one/#comment-85583&quot;&gt;Reuben Scicluna&lt;/a&gt;.

This reminds me of the phrase attributed to Dostoyevsky that &quot;If there is no God, everything is permitted&quot;. A former chief justice has written on this subject        http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20110626/letters/Deciding-on-what-is-morally-right.372452

Outside Catholicism or even outside Christianity or outside any religion or faith there can be a moral code. However as history teaches, this code, especially if it is not based on objective values, is rather weak and can change according to fashionable trends and tends to be subjective and very relative. There is a greater risk of moral nihilism.

&lt;strong&gt;[Daphne - I don&#039;t agree with you or with Dostoyevsky. History and current experience have shown, and you will understand this if you think about it, that it is the other way round: that religion/s give people the excuse and the framework for any number of horrors and wrongs.]&lt;/strong&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2011/06/religion-and-the-fatherland-religio-et-patria-%e2%80%93-time-to-get-rid-of-that-one/#comment-85583">Reuben Scicluna</a>.</p>
<p>This reminds me of the phrase attributed to Dostoyevsky that &#8220;If there is no God, everything is permitted&#8221;. A former chief justice has written on this subject        <a href="http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20110626/letters/Deciding-on-what-is-morally-right.372452" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20110626/letters/Deciding-on-what-is-morally-right.372452</a></p>
<p>Outside Catholicism or even outside Christianity or outside any religion or faith there can be a moral code. However as history teaches, this code, especially if it is not based on objective values, is rather weak and can change according to fashionable trends and tends to be subjective and very relative. There is a greater risk of moral nihilism.</p>
<p><strong>[Daphne &#8211; I don&#8217;t agree with you or with Dostoyevsky. History and current experience have shown, and you will understand this if you think about it, that it is the other way round: that religion/s give people the excuse and the framework for any number of horrors and wrongs.]</strong></p>
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