Then I don’t know why you’re an athiest – if that was true, Christianity would by right up your alley, Mr. ‘tied down and spreadeagled’.

The whole “gay men who imagine their tortures at the hands of 21st-century EU governments and society in general to be immense and extreme” comment was a bit much. There are so many suicides (Gay teenage suicide is 4 times higher than average teenage suicide). Or teenagers literally thrown on the street. Or taken to horribly damaging reparative therapy. Or beaten to an inch of their lives by their fathers.

I mean nowadays there are loads and loads of accepting families, where its a non-issue (like mine thankfully). And other families in which its something they have to deal with for a while but eventually get over, but there are also situations which are beyond terrible and affect gay people in an “immense and extreme way”.

This said I do acknowledge that for women it may be harder to leave the household due to children and such matters but I believe that they can still work up the courage to seek help if they want to.

Now when it comes to gay men, speaking from experience, the violence is there in a much more subtle manner, and less so at times. On a psychological level, homophobic violence occurs through jokes and comments – and women are no less subject to such jokes as gey men are. In terms of family relations,

Being a gay man myself, I can understand why some would prefer to hide and remain a closet case. If being cast off by your family isn’t bad enough, situations do occur when gay men, are beaten by thier peers “to turn them straight”, at times also by thier fathers “to toughen up the sissy queen and make him a man”. This in turn may create a fear to fight back when one is an adolescent a fear that grows up with you.

Now on the point of fighting back what is the point of reporting gay bashing and people attacking you when the authorities don’t take you seriously – if not deride you?

However by this point I by no means wish to undermine the reality that women are beaten and raped by thier men, they have been for centuries and yes that is very wrong and legal action should be taken to help these women, however this does not imply that gay men do not undergo similar traumas in thier lives as do straight men that are beaten by thier wives – another reality that is not that well known by the public and definately not taken seriously by those who should!

no no! you got me wrong. i am not the oblivious Maltese man you’re “accusing” me of. i am just saying that i’ve never heard of a woman (gossip, people i may know by sight, friends or friends of friends, etc) that committed suicide because she was being abused by her husband/bf. it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen.

you’re right re gay men committing suicide… the stories i know were of teenagers/early 20s

If I were you, I’d ask god for that one in writing.

And that’s why gay men don’t end up in shelters while women who have no money, because they are the unpaid household servant, who don’t fight back because they have been cowed into submission through fear and violence, do.’

Daphne, you’re right about many things in this post, but these last two paragraphs are not accurate. Domestic violence in same-sex relationships is not unheard of. Nor is the psychological control which forces men to stay with their abusive same-sex partner. The reason why gay men do not end up in shelters is that there are none for gay men.

In my view, and that of most eminent feminists, feminism and LGBT advocacy should not be competitors. They should be seen as part of one movement which opposes male heteronormativity. It is a disservice to both to pit them against one another.

[Daphne – Justin, I am not trying to do anything to pit them against each other. Both are of interest to me. I am seeking to introduce a sense of perspective and proportion into a debate that has neither of those things, and to remind people that the problems for women are STILL extremely serious despite changes to the law. Laws change but the socio-cultural attitudes of hundreds of years do not. Only those who gain the confidence of women from different social backgrounds and get them to open up really know what is going on. Three personal narratives I was told last week: 1. a man who goes home after work every day to beat his wife and 14-year-old daughter. The daughter is too young to leave home alone. She begs her mother to leave him because she can’t stand it anymore. The mother says: “But where would I go?” 2. A woman whose husband threw her down the stairs when she was pregnant. She eventually left him with their two children and now lives with somebody else. 3. A woman whose several children haven’t eaten fresh fruit in months, among other difficulties, and who works all the hours God sends to make ends meet while her husband gambles away his earnings, borrows thousands more and loses that too, then smashes up the house and pulls his adult daughter around by the hair when she tries to explain to her mother that this is not a normal situation. Now read the newspapers carefully and start taking note of the number of cases of serious violence against women. A common threat used by Maltese men of a certain background against their wives appears to be ‘I’ll put you in a coffin’. So many women have reported this that it can’t just be a coincidence. Their husbands must have heard it used by their own fathers against their mothers.]

Can you quote chapter and verse from where you go this? I am really interested.

“Messagg iehor interessanti kien dwar il-Perit Mintoff u d-drittijiet civili: “Kuragg lill-ggant politiku li fost hafna affarijiet li wettaq ggieled kontra l-mewg Konservattiv u ta l-libertà lin-nies omosesswali fl-1973. Grazzi u zomm sod Perit!!” miktub minn Albert Gauci Cunningham, Joseph Bruno Vella, Barry Portelli, Gino Tanti, Charlot Grima u Charles Philip Zammit”

(http://www.kullhadd.com/201009182121/Ahbarijiet/gratitudni-u-stima-kbira-lejn-il-perit-mintoff.html)

For what it’s worth, Joseph Bruno Vella and Cyrus Engerer both use (nearly) the same photo for their Facebook profiles. Anyone who visited maltatoday.com last Monday would have noticed.

And they look so sweet together!

Not that it justifies it in any way, but it was the same in the UK until relatively recently.