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	Comments on: Civil Liberties Jeff wants journalists jailed &#8211; you know, just like in Turkey	</title>
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	<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2012/04/civil-liberties-jeff-wants-journalists-jailed-you-know-just-like-in-turkey/</link>
	<description>Daphne Caruana Galizia is a journalist working in Malta.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2012 06:50:41 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Kenneth Cassar		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2012/04/civil-liberties-jeff-wants-journalists-jailed-you-know-just-like-in-turkey/#comment-226645</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kenneth Cassar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2012 06:50:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=18403#comment-226645</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2012/04/civil-liberties-jeff-wants-journalists-jailed-you-know-just-like-in-turkey/#comment-224539&quot;&gt;Farrugia&lt;/a&gt;.

&quot;Your use of sexual innuendo (blog titled ‘missionary position’) to ridicule the President’s initiative is disasteful and offensive to his office. Therefore, it also offends us, the citizens of this Republic&quot;.

I&#039;m a citizen of this Republic, and it doesn&#039;t offend me at all.  In fact, I think it was quite clever.  Then again, I&#039;m European, which means I have a sense of humour.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2012/04/civil-liberties-jeff-wants-journalists-jailed-you-know-just-like-in-turkey/#comment-224539">Farrugia</a>.</p>
<p>&#8220;Your use of sexual innuendo (blog titled ‘missionary position’) to ridicule the President’s initiative is disasteful and offensive to his office. Therefore, it also offends us, the citizens of this Republic&#8221;.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a citizen of this Republic, and it doesn&#8217;t offend me at all.  In fact, I think it was quite clever.  Then again, I&#8217;m European, which means I have a sense of humour.</p>
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		<title>
		By: David		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2012/04/civil-liberties-jeff-wants-journalists-jailed-you-know-just-like-in-turkey/#comment-226401</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Apr 2012 22:29:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=18403#comment-226401</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The argument of so called antiquated laws is very dangerous. In a state based on the rule, all laws must be followed. 

&lt;strong&gt;[Daphne - You&#039;re quite wrong there. Many laws are allowed to fall into abeyance, and become &#039;dead letters&#039;. They are left on the statute books as archaisms but not actually put into practice. I believe we still have a law which says Maltese citizens may be executed for high treason. Would you consider applying that law?]&lt;/strong&gt;

The police have the right and duty to enforce all laws and not just those laws they think or someone else thinks are not antiquated.  If there are antiquated laws, it is Parliament which should amend or repeal them. Until this happens all laws must be observed.   

&lt;strong&gt;[Daphne - Wrong again. The police have discretion. When they don&#039;t use it, they sometimes cause more trouble and greater injustices than they seek to alleviate. More sophisticated police forces know this. They will, for example, pick up a drunk and either take him home or let him sober up in a station cell, then let him go. The law allows them (ALLOWS THEM, NOT OBLIGES THEM) to charge him for being drunk and disorderly in public and shattering the public peace, but exactly what would be the point?]&lt;/strong&gt;  

Besides similar laws of lese&#039; majeste&#039; against defaming and insulting the head of state exist in most states (as criminal libel), including European countries as Italy which has the crime of vilipendio and this law was applied in Spain a few years ago in a case involving a caricature of a member of the Royal family.  As far as I recall, Norman Lowell was found guilty of a similar offence of insulting the president.  

&lt;strong&gt;[Daphne - Was he? I thought his charges were about inciting hatred re racism. Yes, indeed: such laws do exist, but they are, as I explained, dead letters. No British cartoonist is going to be hanged, drawn and quartered any time soon for mocking the head of state, rest assured. As for Spain, pop over to their news sites now and see the flood of criticism that their head of state is under right now. The only countries in which people are punished for insulting the head of state are totalitarian. If a liberal democracy got out on the wrong side of bed and tried to put somebody on trial for insulting the queen, or the president, there would be public outrage, as the public would correctly see it as a threat to fundamental freedoms held dear in the liberal west.]&lt;/strong&gt;

On the other hand a distinction must be made between criticism of public figures acceptable in democratic countries, and insults or defamation of public as well as private persons.  If the latter were acceptable, we then should remove all libel laws.

&lt;strong&gt;[Daphne - Libels laws do not deal with criticism, David. They deal with libel (lies and slander, that is).]&lt;/strong&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The argument of so called antiquated laws is very dangerous. In a state based on the rule, all laws must be followed. </p>
<p><strong>[Daphne &#8211; You&#8217;re quite wrong there. Many laws are allowed to fall into abeyance, and become &#8216;dead letters&#8217;. They are left on the statute books as archaisms but not actually put into practice. I believe we still have a law which says Maltese citizens may be executed for high treason. Would you consider applying that law?]</strong></p>
<p>The police have the right and duty to enforce all laws and not just those laws they think or someone else thinks are not antiquated.  If there are antiquated laws, it is Parliament which should amend or repeal them. Until this happens all laws must be observed.   </p>
<p><strong>[Daphne &#8211; Wrong again. The police have discretion. When they don&#8217;t use it, they sometimes cause more trouble and greater injustices than they seek to alleviate. More sophisticated police forces know this. They will, for example, pick up a drunk and either take him home or let him sober up in a station cell, then let him go. The law allows them (ALLOWS THEM, NOT OBLIGES THEM) to charge him for being drunk and disorderly in public and shattering the public peace, but exactly what would be the point?]</strong>  </p>
<p>Besides similar laws of lese&#8217; majeste&#8217; against defaming and insulting the head of state exist in most states (as criminal libel), including European countries as Italy which has the crime of vilipendio and this law was applied in Spain a few years ago in a case involving a caricature of a member of the Royal family.  As far as I recall, Norman Lowell was found guilty of a similar offence of insulting the president.  </p>
<p><strong>[Daphne &#8211; Was he? I thought his charges were about inciting hatred re racism. Yes, indeed: such laws do exist, but they are, as I explained, dead letters. No British cartoonist is going to be hanged, drawn and quartered any time soon for mocking the head of state, rest assured. As for Spain, pop over to their news sites now and see the flood of criticism that their head of state is under right now. The only countries in which people are punished for insulting the head of state are totalitarian. If a liberal democracy got out on the wrong side of bed and tried to put somebody on trial for insulting the queen, or the president, there would be public outrage, as the public would correctly see it as a threat to fundamental freedoms held dear in the liberal west.]</strong></p>
<p>On the other hand a distinction must be made between criticism of public figures acceptable in democratic countries, and insults or defamation of public as well as private persons.  If the latter were acceptable, we then should remove all libel laws.</p>
<p><strong>[Daphne &#8211; Libels laws do not deal with criticism, David. They deal with libel (lies and slander, that is).]</strong></p>
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		<title>
		By: ciccio		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2012/04/civil-liberties-jeff-wants-journalists-jailed-you-know-just-like-in-turkey/#comment-225191</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ciccio]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Apr 2012 08:07:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=18403#comment-225191</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[One wonders, did JPO, take legal advice before asking for police action?
  
As pointed out in the article above, he is a legislator.  He should not be giving directions to the police.

Why does an MP have to come across as a peasant with a pitchfork, and a sense of vindictive justice against the free media?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One wonders, did JPO, take legal advice before asking for police action?</p>
<p>As pointed out in the article above, he is a legislator.  He should not be giving directions to the police.</p>
<p>Why does an MP have to come across as a peasant with a pitchfork, and a sense of vindictive justice against the free media?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Orlando Ellul Micallef		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2012/04/civil-liberties-jeff-wants-journalists-jailed-you-know-just-like-in-turkey/#comment-224807</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Orlando Ellul Micallef]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Apr 2012 19:07:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=18403#comment-224807</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Where was Jeffrey back then, when they held juries in parliament - replacing the court of justice?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where was Jeffrey back then, when they held juries in parliament &#8211; replacing the court of justice?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Zachary Stewart		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2012/04/civil-liberties-jeff-wants-journalists-jailed-you-know-just-like-in-turkey/#comment-224765</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zachary Stewart]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Apr 2012 18:03:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=18403#comment-224765</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hear, hear. Freedom of speech is absolute, and that includes speech that we find unseemly and with which we do not agree (see the recent US Supreme Court case Snyder v. Phelps). 

I have always found Europeans (particularly Maltese) a bit too libel-happy for their own good. The state should be there to protect people from bodily harm and the molestation of private property, not to keep its citizens feelings from being hurt. 

Even in the service of &quot;tolerance,&quot; (Boris&#039;s bus ad ban, the arrest of John Galliano) curtailments on free expression are patently illiberal.

&lt;strong&gt;[Daphne - For once, we agree, but it cannot be completely absolute: lying about others is out of the question, and so is the invasion of a private citizen&#039;s privacy.]&lt;/strong&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hear, hear. Freedom of speech is absolute, and that includes speech that we find unseemly and with which we do not agree (see the recent US Supreme Court case Snyder v. Phelps). </p>
<p>I have always found Europeans (particularly Maltese) a bit too libel-happy for their own good. The state should be there to protect people from bodily harm and the molestation of private property, not to keep its citizens feelings from being hurt. </p>
<p>Even in the service of &#8220;tolerance,&#8221; (Boris&#8217;s bus ad ban, the arrest of John Galliano) curtailments on free expression are patently illiberal.</p>
<p><strong>[Daphne &#8211; For once, we agree, but it cannot be completely absolute: lying about others is out of the question, and so is the invasion of a private citizen&#8217;s privacy.]</strong></p>
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		<title>
		By: ciccio		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2012/04/civil-liberties-jeff-wants-journalists-jailed-you-know-just-like-in-turkey/#comment-224751</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ciccio]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Apr 2012 17:39:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=18403#comment-224751</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2012/04/civil-liberties-jeff-wants-journalists-jailed-you-know-just-like-in-turkey/#comment-224539&quot;&gt;Farrugia&lt;/a&gt;.

Farrugia, you&#039;re late for your flight to Pyongyang.  Hurry.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2012/04/civil-liberties-jeff-wants-journalists-jailed-you-know-just-like-in-turkey/#comment-224539">Farrugia</a>.</p>
<p>Farrugia, you&#8217;re late for your flight to Pyongyang.  Hurry.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jozef		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2012/04/civil-liberties-jeff-wants-journalists-jailed-you-know-just-like-in-turkey/#comment-224742</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jozef]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Apr 2012 17:32:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=18403#comment-224742</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2012/04/civil-liberties-jeff-wants-journalists-jailed-you-know-just-like-in-turkey/#comment-224562&quot;&gt;mandango70&lt;/a&gt;.

Et tu Brute.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2012/04/civil-liberties-jeff-wants-journalists-jailed-you-know-just-like-in-turkey/#comment-224562">mandango70</a>.</p>
<p>Et tu Brute.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Farrugia		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2012/04/civil-liberties-jeff-wants-journalists-jailed-you-know-just-like-in-turkey/#comment-224716</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Farrugia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Apr 2012 16:51:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=18403#comment-224716</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2012/04/civil-liberties-jeff-wants-journalists-jailed-you-know-just-like-in-turkey/#comment-224539&quot;&gt;Farrugia&lt;/a&gt;.

Well, there was someone who was not a comedian who mocked the Royal Family. Her name is Lady Diana. Where is she now?

&lt;strong&gt;[Daphne - I&#039;d better not get into a fast Mercedes in Paris, then, had I.]&lt;/strong&gt;


The reason why you criticize the President is because he is not part of the PN Establishment (his roots are Labour). I would be impressed when you start crtisizing the PN Establishment rather than pick on someone who would not respond to your comments. Now thats what I call a servile mentality.

&lt;strong&gt;[Daphne - Actually, I believe one of my more famous columns was about the outgoing (PN) president, now deceased, so no further comments.]&lt;/strong&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2012/04/civil-liberties-jeff-wants-journalists-jailed-you-know-just-like-in-turkey/#comment-224539">Farrugia</a>.</p>
<p>Well, there was someone who was not a comedian who mocked the Royal Family. Her name is Lady Diana. Where is she now?</p>
<p><strong>[Daphne &#8211; I&#8217;d better not get into a fast Mercedes in Paris, then, had I.]</strong></p>
<p>The reason why you criticize the President is because he is not part of the PN Establishment (his roots are Labour). I would be impressed when you start crtisizing the PN Establishment rather than pick on someone who would not respond to your comments. Now thats what I call a servile mentality.</p>
<p><strong>[Daphne &#8211; Actually, I believe one of my more famous columns was about the outgoing (PN) president, now deceased, so no further comments.]</strong></p>
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		<title>
		By: NGT		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2012/04/civil-liberties-jeff-wants-journalists-jailed-you-know-just-like-in-turkey/#comment-224678</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[NGT]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Apr 2012 15:54:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=18403#comment-224678</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Have you read this gem? JPO thinks Israel is better suited to join the EU than Turkey is because Israelis are culturally European.

http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/en/newsdetails/news/national/Pullicino-Orlando-Israelis-culturally-European-and-fit-for-membership-20120416]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you read this gem? JPO thinks Israel is better suited to join the EU than Turkey is because Israelis are culturally European.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/en/newsdetails/news/national/Pullicino-Orlando-Israelis-culturally-European-and-fit-for-membership-20120416" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/en/newsdetails/news/national/Pullicino-Orlando-Israelis-culturally-European-and-fit-for-membership-20120416</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: mandango70		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2012/04/civil-liberties-jeff-wants-journalists-jailed-you-know-just-like-in-turkey/#comment-224620</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mandango70]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Apr 2012 14:33:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=18403#comment-224620</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2012/04/civil-liberties-jeff-wants-journalists-jailed-you-know-just-like-in-turkey/#comment-224562&quot;&gt;mandango70&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks for this. Thought it looked phunny.

@ Jozef: &quot;Ci sono, ci sono. Et tu Brutus?&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2012/04/civil-liberties-jeff-wants-journalists-jailed-you-know-just-like-in-turkey/#comment-224562">mandango70</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks for this. Thought it looked phunny.</p>
<p>@ Jozef: &#8220;Ci sono, ci sono. Et tu Brutus?&#8221;</p>
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