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	Comments on: Enough with the &#8216;monti&#8217;. The proper word is &#8216;suq&#8217;. And it&#8217;s not a flea market, either.	</title>
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	<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2015/02/enough-with-the-monti-the-proper-word-is-suq-and-its-not-a-flea-market-either/</link>
	<description>Daphne Caruana Galizia is a journalist working in Malta.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2015 01:17:29 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Optimist		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2015/02/enough-with-the-monti-the-proper-word-is-suq-and-its-not-a-flea-market-either/#comment-3017443</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Optimist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2015 01:17:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=58370#comment-3017443</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2015/02/enough-with-the-monti-the-proper-word-is-suq-and-its-not-a-flea-market-either/#comment-3017221&quot;&gt;Optimist&lt;/a&gt;.

Yes, noticed the difference in spelling and I referred to it in my post.  I believe that there is debate behind the etymology of the word.

&lt;strong&gt;[Daphne - &lt;em&gt;Please&lt;/em&gt;.]&lt;/strong&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2015/02/enough-with-the-monti-the-proper-word-is-suq-and-its-not-a-flea-market-either/#comment-3017221">Optimist</a>.</p>
<p>Yes, noticed the difference in spelling and I referred to it in my post.  I believe that there is debate behind the etymology of the word.</p>
<p><strong>[Daphne &#8211; <em>Please</em>.]</strong></p>
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		<title>
		By: Optimist		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2015/02/enough-with-the-monti-the-proper-word-is-suq-and-its-not-a-flea-market-either/#comment-3017221</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Optimist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2015 21:02:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=58370#comment-3017221</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I read elsewhere that Flea Markets was coined from the verb &quot;to flee&quot;.  It came about from Travelers and Roma who would be forced out of towns and in the rush &quot;to flee&quot; they would sell as much of their gear as possible to lighten the load.

&lt;strong&gt;[Daphne - Comments like this one make me want to...well, never mind. Haven&#039;t you noticed that the spelling of &#039;flea&#039; and &#039;flee&#039; is different? That means that the words have completely different meanings despite sounding exactly the same. They&#039;re called flea markets because they started out selling used clothes and bedding, which tended to be flea-infested in less hygienic decades than ours.]&lt;/strong&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read elsewhere that Flea Markets was coined from the verb &#8220;to flee&#8221;.  It came about from Travelers and Roma who would be forced out of towns and in the rush &#8220;to flee&#8221; they would sell as much of their gear as possible to lighten the load.</p>
<p><strong>[Daphne &#8211; Comments like this one make me want to&#8230;well, never mind. Haven&#8217;t you noticed that the spelling of &#8216;flea&#8217; and &#8216;flee&#8217; is different? That means that the words have completely different meanings despite sounding exactly the same. They&#8217;re called flea markets because they started out selling used clothes and bedding, which tended to be flea-infested in less hygienic decades than ours.]</strong></p>
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		<title>
		By: GiovDeMartino		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2015/02/enough-with-the-monti-the-proper-word-is-suq-and-its-not-a-flea-market-either/#comment-3016534</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[GiovDeMartino]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2015 14:51:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=58370#comment-3016534</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It-termos, il-biro, il-hoover, il-kenwood and il-monti.  Kulhadd sejjer sal-Monti, jghid.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It-termos, il-biro, il-hoover, il-kenwood and il-monti.  Kulhadd sejjer sal-Monti, jghid.</p>
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		By: christiaan huygens		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2015/02/enough-with-the-monti-the-proper-word-is-suq-and-its-not-a-flea-market-either/#comment-3016526</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[christiaan huygens]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2015 14:47:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=58370#comment-3016526</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Very interesting. Actually, for most people from Valletta, like Daphne&#039;s father, the area where that open air market was located was known as &quot;fuq il-monti&quot; rather than just &quot;il-monti&quot;.  

It had been located there since the time of the knights when there also used to be some craftsmen working there, such as cobblers. The historical background given by Daphne is correct but I disagree with the semantic explanation.  

I believe any linguistics scholar would hold that the word &quot;monti&quot; has now acquired the meaning of &quot;open air market&quot; by analogy with the original one in Valletta.  Many or most of today&#039;s open air markets are a relatively recent development and the word monti is now associated with them.  Today, the philosophy of linguistics is descriptive - how people use words - rather than prescriptive - how people should use words.  One may agree or disagre but this how it is.

&lt;strong&gt;[Daphne - &#039;Minn fuq il-Monti&#039;: fascinating, because that&#039;s exactly how I say it, but I never stopped to wonder about it, or why, when I hear people say &#039;mill-Monti&#039;, it sounds like they&#039;ve got it wrong. Well, now I know that it sounds to me like they&#039;ve got it wrong because they &lt;em&gt;have&lt;/em&gt; got it wrong. I grew up with &#039;xtrah minn fuq il-Monti&#039; and &#039;ibiegh fuq il-Monti&#039;, so much so that - I now recall, thanks to you - the kind of &#039;Slimizi&#039; who used to joke around by using phrases translated literally from Maltese used to say &#039;did you buy that from ON THE MONTI?&#039; Again, it never clicked until I read your comment.

As for the word &#039;monti&#039; being absorbed into the language in lieu of &#039;suq&#039;, I have to disagree completely. You have to distinguish between colloquial and proper use of language. The fact that most Maltese people call vacuum-cleaners &#039;Hoovers&#039;, even when speaking English, does not mean that &#039;hoover&#039; is now the new word for vacuum-cleaner.

Open air markets in towns and villages are absolutely not a recent development. It is shops which are &#039;recent&#039; developments. Markets were the precursors of shops. Maltese towns and villages had market before they had shops. But that was the same everywhere in the world.]&lt;/strong&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting. Actually, for most people from Valletta, like Daphne&#8217;s father, the area where that open air market was located was known as &#8220;fuq il-monti&#8221; rather than just &#8220;il-monti&#8221;.  </p>
<p>It had been located there since the time of the knights when there also used to be some craftsmen working there, such as cobblers. The historical background given by Daphne is correct but I disagree with the semantic explanation.  </p>
<p>I believe any linguistics scholar would hold that the word &#8220;monti&#8221; has now acquired the meaning of &#8220;open air market&#8221; by analogy with the original one in Valletta.  Many or most of today&#8217;s open air markets are a relatively recent development and the word monti is now associated with them.  Today, the philosophy of linguistics is descriptive &#8211; how people use words &#8211; rather than prescriptive &#8211; how people should use words.  One may agree or disagre but this how it is.</p>
<p><strong>[Daphne &#8211; &#8216;Minn fuq il-Monti&#8217;: fascinating, because that&#8217;s exactly how I say it, but I never stopped to wonder about it, or why, when I hear people say &#8216;mill-Monti&#8217;, it sounds like they&#8217;ve got it wrong. Well, now I know that it sounds to me like they&#8217;ve got it wrong because they <em>have</em> got it wrong. I grew up with &#8216;xtrah minn fuq il-Monti&#8217; and &#8216;ibiegh fuq il-Monti&#8217;, so much so that &#8211; I now recall, thanks to you &#8211; the kind of &#8216;Slimizi&#8217; who used to joke around by using phrases translated literally from Maltese used to say &#8216;did you buy that from ON THE MONTI?&#8217; Again, it never clicked until I read your comment.</p>
<p>As for the word &#8216;monti&#8217; being absorbed into the language in lieu of &#8216;suq&#8217;, I have to disagree completely. You have to distinguish between colloquial and proper use of language. The fact that most Maltese people call vacuum-cleaners &#8216;Hoovers&#8217;, even when speaking English, does not mean that &#8216;hoover&#8217; is now the new word for vacuum-cleaner.</p>
<p>Open air markets in towns and villages are absolutely not a recent development. It is shops which are &#8216;recent&#8217; developments. Markets were the precursors of shops. Maltese towns and villages had market before they had shops. But that was the same everywhere in the world.]</strong></p>
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		<title>
		By: H.P. Baxxter		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2015/02/enough-with-the-monti-the-proper-word-is-suq-and-its-not-a-flea-market-either/#comment-3016466</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[H.P. Baxxter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2015 14:15:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=58370#comment-3016466</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2015/02/enough-with-the-monti-the-proper-word-is-suq-and-its-not-a-flea-market-either/#comment-3016257&quot;&gt;Jozef&lt;/a&gt;.

Or this:
www.midnightbazar.de/muenchen]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2015/02/enough-with-the-monti-the-proper-word-is-suq-and-its-not-a-flea-market-either/#comment-3016257">Jozef</a>.</p>
<p>Or this:<br />
<a href="http://www.midnightbazar.de/muenchen" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.midnightbazar.de/muenchen</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: john		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2015/02/enough-with-the-monti-the-proper-word-is-suq-and-its-not-a-flea-market-either/#comment-3016334</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[john]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2015 12:50:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=58370#comment-3016334</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The &#039;monti&#039; reminds me of another word derived from a public building in Malta whose usage became part of colloquial Maltese.

Before the construction of Mount Carmel Hospital in the nineteenth century, patients with mental disease were housed in Villa Franconi in Floriana. It was known by the now unacceptable terminology as The Lunatic Asylum for Imbeciles.

But ta&#039; Frankuni became part of the Maltese vernacular for a mental hospital, and to this day some people refer to Mount Carmel Hospital as ta&#039; Frankuni. I have even heard a psychiatric hospital in the UK being referred to as ta&#039; Frankuni.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8216;monti&#8217; reminds me of another word derived from a public building in Malta whose usage became part of colloquial Maltese.</p>
<p>Before the construction of Mount Carmel Hospital in the nineteenth century, patients with mental disease were housed in Villa Franconi in Floriana. It was known by the now unacceptable terminology as The Lunatic Asylum for Imbeciles.</p>
<p>But ta&#8217; Frankuni became part of the Maltese vernacular for a mental hospital, and to this day some people refer to Mount Carmel Hospital as ta&#8217; Frankuni. I have even heard a psychiatric hospital in the UK being referred to as ta&#8217; Frankuni.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Semaj		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2015/02/enough-with-the-monti-the-proper-word-is-suq-and-its-not-a-flea-market-either/#comment-3016313</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Semaj]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2015 12:39:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=58370#comment-3016313</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Correct me if I am wrong but I was always under the impression that the term &quot;Monti&quot; originated from the three-card Monte game that was very popular in the market, hence colloquially it was used instead of Suq.

&lt;strong&gt;[Daphne - You have the explanation in my post above. The open market was set up for generations just outside the Monte di Pieta in Merchants Street. There was a closed (food) market further down the street (still is). The food market was and still is simply &#039;is-suq&#039;, for the reason that it was there first, long before the other one. When the other one came along, it called &#039;is-suq tal-Monti (di Pieta)&#039; to distinguish it from the other. And then it became just &#039;il-Monti&#039;.]&lt;/strong&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correct me if I am wrong but I was always under the impression that the term &#8220;Monti&#8221; originated from the three-card Monte game that was very popular in the market, hence colloquially it was used instead of Suq.</p>
<p><strong>[Daphne &#8211; You have the explanation in my post above. The open market was set up for generations just outside the Monte di Pieta in Merchants Street. There was a closed (food) market further down the street (still is). The food market was and still is simply &#8216;is-suq&#8217;, for the reason that it was there first, long before the other one. When the other one came along, it called &#8216;is-suq tal-Monti (di Pieta)&#8217; to distinguish it from the other. And then it became just &#8216;il-Monti&#8217;.]</strong></p>
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		<title>
		By: Jozef		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2015/02/enough-with-the-monti-the-proper-word-is-suq-and-its-not-a-flea-market-either/#comment-3016257</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jozef]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2015 12:07:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=58370#comment-3016257</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Behold a flea market gone totally borghese, vintage, eclectic, iconic, European. 

It&#039;s only once a month and at Milan&#039;s Naviglo grande, the canal which served barges supplying the city, the dock outside Porta Genova, one of the gates delineating the old city walls. That would be the equivalent of the menqa in Marsa.  

The Milanese would never tolerate a flea market in Piazza della Scala with the Opera and Palazzo Marino, the seat of government, at both ends.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnNOvUetNes

Trust the Milanese to design a market to flourish into a phenomenon. Collectors beware, or drive up in a van. The side street leading from the metro everything 20th century jewellery. 

It&#039;s also pertinent to ask why Labour intends to disrupt Birgu&#039;s flea market. It had taken on a life of its own. Obviously not Taghna Lkoll.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Behold a flea market gone totally borghese, vintage, eclectic, iconic, European. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s only once a month and at Milan&#8217;s Naviglo grande, the canal which served barges supplying the city, the dock outside Porta Genova, one of the gates delineating the old city walls. That would be the equivalent of the menqa in Marsa.  </p>
<p>The Milanese would never tolerate a flea market in Piazza della Scala with the Opera and Palazzo Marino, the seat of government, at both ends.  </p>
<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnNOvUetNes" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnNOvUetNes</a></p>
<p>Trust the Milanese to design a market to flourish into a phenomenon. Collectors beware, or drive up in a van. The side street leading from the metro everything 20th century jewellery. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s also pertinent to ask why Labour intends to disrupt Birgu&#8217;s flea market. It had taken on a life of its own. Obviously not Taghna Lkoll.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jozef		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2015/02/enough-with-the-monti-the-proper-word-is-suq-and-its-not-a-flea-market-either/#comment-3016207</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jozef]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2015 11:37:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=58370#comment-3016207</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Il-monti tal-arkotta.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Il-monti tal-arkotta.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tim Ripard		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2015/02/enough-with-the-monti-the-proper-word-is-suq-and-its-not-a-flea-market-either/#comment-3016164</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim Ripard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2015 11:04:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=58370#comment-3016164</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2015/02/enough-with-the-monti-the-proper-word-is-suq-and-its-not-a-flea-market-either/#comment-3015163&quot;&gt;Joe Fenech&lt;/a&gt;.

eponymously]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2015/02/enough-with-the-monti-the-proper-word-is-suq-and-its-not-a-flea-market-either/#comment-3015163">Joe Fenech</a>.</p>
<p>eponymously</p>
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