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	Comments on: Another Taghna Lkoll word: Nederlandiżi	</title>
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	<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2017/01/another-taghna-lkoll-word-nederlandizi/</link>
	<description>Daphne Caruana Galizia is a journalist working in Malta.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2017 19:59:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: callixtus		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2017/01/another-taghna-lkoll-word-nederlandizi/#comment-3116779</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[callixtus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2017 19:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=88036#comment-3116779</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[No, I don&#039;t get it. English does not need any bombastic Council of the English language as a reference point for legal or official purposes. 

The Akkademja tal-Malti has mangled Maltese  into a pidgin language. Looking at an article written in Maltese has become frightfully baffling.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, I don&#8217;t get it. English does not need any bombastic Council of the English language as a reference point for legal or official purposes. </p>
<p>The Akkademja tal-Malti has mangled Maltese  into a pidgin language. Looking at an article written in Maltese has become frightfully baffling.</p>
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		<title>
		By: FP@DISQUS		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2017/01/another-taghna-lkoll-word-nederlandizi/#comment-3115823</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[FP@DISQUS]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jan 2017 00:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[Again, the framework the Council is working with is this: it&#039;s a proper name, so leave the original spelling, irrespective of the pronunciation. The scientific methods to employ in translating ordinary nouns do not apply to proper names - otherwise, we&#039;d end up having to write Xejksper, Twejn, Hotorn, Frojd, Rejgin, Buxx, and Klintin. Which could indeed be a possibility, but one which I do not favour at all and thank the stars for that, and I do believe that our host would not take that kindly either. Again, pronunciation is not of primary concern here, but spelling and being faithful to the original.

Gużè Aquilina based his orthography on the original 1924 guidelines, which as I mentioned earlier have since been updated to address cases which could not have been foreseen a hundred years ago. And since Aquilina died in August 1997, he was obviously not faced with the same problem that the Council faced when Malta had to provide a complete &quot;politically and geographically correct&quot; list of names of EU member states. I am not aware of Aquilina ever opposing the adoption of the guidelines as amended in 1984, so why speculate that he would have acted contrary to those guidelines?

You&#039;re persisting with the &#039;x&#039; issue, so here&#039;s a direct question: how would YOU have handled it? I&#039;m very curious to know what your solution would be, keeping in mind that we already have the /ʒ/ sound in Maltese and you seem to refuse to use it.

And you continue to persist in restricting Maltese to its phoneme set, while not applying the same restrictions to other languages. So while noting that you have not answered my question the first time,  I&#039;ll ask again: WHY?

It is indeed a pity that we&#039;re both stuck behind a screen and keyboard to conduct what is to my mind a rather interesting discussion, but there&#039;s not much either of us can do about that, so we&#039;ll have to make do. A whiteboard would indeed help the flow of argument,  while a little wine might help the better flow of blood to the brain during this cold spell.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again, the framework the Council is working with is this: it&#8217;s a proper name, so leave the original spelling, irrespective of the pronunciation. The scientific methods to employ in translating ordinary nouns do not apply to proper names &#8211; otherwise, we&#8217;d end up having to write Xejksper, Twejn, Hotorn, Frojd, Rejgin, Buxx, and Klintin. Which could indeed be a possibility, but one which I do not favour at all and thank the stars for that, and I do believe that our host would not take that kindly either. Again, pronunciation is not of primary concern here, but spelling and being faithful to the original.</p>
<p>Gużè Aquilina based his orthography on the original 1924 guidelines, which as I mentioned earlier have since been updated to address cases which could not have been foreseen a hundred years ago. And since Aquilina died in August 1997, he was obviously not faced with the same problem that the Council faced when Malta had to provide a complete &#8220;politically and geographically correct&#8221; list of names of EU member states. I am not aware of Aquilina ever opposing the adoption of the guidelines as amended in 1984, so why speculate that he would have acted contrary to those guidelines?</p>
<p>You&#8217;re persisting with the &#8216;x&#8217; issue, so here&#8217;s a direct question: how would YOU have handled it? I&#8217;m very curious to know what your solution would be, keeping in mind that we already have the /ʒ/ sound in Maltese and you seem to refuse to use it.</p>
<p>And you continue to persist in restricting Maltese to its phoneme set, while not applying the same restrictions to other languages. So while noting that you have not answered my question the first time,  I&#8217;ll ask again: WHY?</p>
<p>It is indeed a pity that we&#8217;re both stuck behind a screen and keyboard to conduct what is to my mind a rather interesting discussion, but there&#8217;s not much either of us can do about that, so we&#8217;ll have to make do. A whiteboard would indeed help the flow of argument,  while a little wine might help the better flow of blood to the brain during this cold spell.</p>
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		<title>
		By: F. Fenech		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2017/01/another-taghna-lkoll-word-nederlandizi/#comment-3115650</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[F. Fenech]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jan 2017 10:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[But what do you expect, he is as thick as two planks, and that&#039;s being generous]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But what do you expect, he is as thick as two planks, and that&#8217;s being generous</p>
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		<title>
		By: FP@DISQUS		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2017/01/another-taghna-lkoll-word-nederlandizi/#comment-3115595</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[FP@DISQUS]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jan 2017 23:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2017/01/another-taghna-lkoll-word-nederlandizi/#comment-3115560&quot;&gt;callixtus&lt;/a&gt;.

It is not up to you to decide what the experts&#039; role is in the National Council of the Maltese Language. That is solely established by Chapter 470, the Maltese Language Act of 2005.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2017/01/another-taghna-lkoll-word-nederlandizi/#comment-3115560">callixtus</a>.</p>
<p>It is not up to you to decide what the experts&#8217; role is in the National Council of the Maltese Language. That is solely established by Chapter 470, the Maltese Language Act of 2005.</p>
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		<title>
		By: FP@DISQUS		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2017/01/another-taghna-lkoll-word-nederlandizi/#comment-3115594</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[FP@DISQUS]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jan 2017 23:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=88036#comment-3115594</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2017/01/another-taghna-lkoll-word-nederlandizi/#comment-3115582&quot;&gt;callixtus&lt;/a&gt;.

It is not your business to decide what the Akkademja&#039;s and the Council&#039;s business is. That is established by law:

The Maltese Language Act:

&lt;i&gt;&quot;4. (1) There shall be a body, to be known as the National Council of the Maltese Language, having the aim of adopting and promoting a suitable language policy and strategy and to verify their performance and observance in every sector of Maltese life, for the benefit and development of the national language and the identity of the Maltese people.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

And, more specifically:

&lt;i&gt;&quot;5. (2) The Council shall also update the orthography of the Maltese Language as necessary and, from time to time, establish the correct manner of writing words and phrases which enter the Maltese Language from other tongues.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Regarding the choice of Netherlandiżi, the Council was crystal clear: the word is intended for use by European Union translators and law makers who require one single standard form, correct both politically and geographically for every single country name, to be used as standard in legislation, directives, treaties and other publications with legal standing; NOT for any other publication which is not legal in nature (for example, literature, journalism, children&#039;s books, travel leaflets, etc).

So no, callixtus, you are completely and utterly wrong on this count: it is VERY MUCH the Akkademja&#039;s business. And it is the law that makes it so.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2017/01/another-taghna-lkoll-word-nederlandizi/#comment-3115582">callixtus</a>.</p>
<p>It is not your business to decide what the Akkademja&#8217;s and the Council&#8217;s business is. That is established by law:</p>
<p>The Maltese Language Act:</p>
<p><i>&#8220;4. (1) There shall be a body, to be known as the National Council of the Maltese Language, having the aim of adopting and promoting a suitable language policy and strategy and to verify their performance and observance in every sector of Maltese life, for the benefit and development of the national language and the identity of the Maltese people.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>And, more specifically:</p>
<p><i>&#8220;5. (2) The Council shall also update the orthography of the Maltese Language as necessary and, from time to time, establish the correct manner of writing words and phrases which enter the Maltese Language from other tongues.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Regarding the choice of Netherlandiżi, the Council was crystal clear: the word is intended for use by European Union translators and law makers who require one single standard form, correct both politically and geographically for every single country name, to be used as standard in legislation, directives, treaties and other publications with legal standing; NOT for any other publication which is not legal in nature (for example, literature, journalism, children&#8217;s books, travel leaflets, etc).</p>
<p>So no, callixtus, you are completely and utterly wrong on this count: it is VERY MUCH the Akkademja&#8217;s business. And it is the law that makes it so.</p>
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		<title>
		By: callixtus		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2017/01/another-taghna-lkoll-word-nederlandizi/#comment-3115582</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[callixtus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jan 2017 22:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=88036#comment-3115582</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It shouldn&#039;t be the Akkademja&#039;s business to invent words which are extinct at birth. Who is going to use Netherlandizi except for some pompous arse?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It shouldn&#8217;t be the Akkademja&#8217;s business to invent words which are extinct at birth. Who is going to use Netherlandizi except for some pompous arse?</p>
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		<title>
		By: callixtus		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2017/01/another-taghna-lkoll-word-nederlandizi/#comment-3115560</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[callixtus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jan 2017 21:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=88036#comment-3115560</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2017/01/another-taghna-lkoll-word-nederlandizi/#comment-3115365&quot;&gt;FP@DISQUS&lt;/a&gt;.

It&#039;s not up to the experts to invent Maltese words. At most they should acknowledge the existence of new words coined by Maltese speakers once their use in spoken language is sufficiently widespread.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2017/01/another-taghna-lkoll-word-nederlandizi/#comment-3115365">FP@DISQUS</a>.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not up to the experts to invent Maltese words. At most they should acknowledge the existence of new words coined by Maltese speakers once their use in spoken language is sufficiently widespread.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Joseph Barbara		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2017/01/another-taghna-lkoll-word-nederlandizi/#comment-3115416</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joseph Barbara]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jan 2017 14:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=88036#comment-3115416</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[We&#039;re nearly there.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;re nearly there.</p>
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		<title>
		By: FP@DISQUS		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2017/01/another-taghna-lkoll-word-nederlandizi/#comment-3115365</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[FP@DISQUS]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jan 2017 11:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=88036#comment-3115365</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2017/01/another-taghna-lkoll-word-nederlandizi/#comment-3115230&quot;&gt;john&lt;/a&gt;.

Ah. So the experts ARE NOT imposing Netherlandiżi upon you. They should reciprocate your compliment, but they&#039;re too professional to do that.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2017/01/another-taghna-lkoll-word-nederlandizi/#comment-3115230">john</a>.</p>
<p>Ah. So the experts ARE NOT imposing Netherlandiżi upon you. They should reciprocate your compliment, but they&#8217;re too professional to do that.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Melissa		</title>
		<link>https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2017/01/another-taghna-lkoll-word-nederlandizi/#comment-3115261</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Melissa]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jan 2017 21:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/?p=88036#comment-3115261</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2017/01/another-taghna-lkoll-word-nederlandizi/#comment-3115019&quot;&gt;FP@DISQUS&lt;/a&gt;.

&quot;Netherlandiżi, by the way, appears to be a reasoned translation of Dutch, following the same principles adopted in translating numerous other words.&quot;

I must disagree on this point.  It is not a reasonable translation.  Any person with a background in general and/or English linguistics would have seen this.  

Indeed, I suspect that the people who coined this word simply cut, copy and pasted it from English without looking into the etymological or historical development of the word itself, the spelling of &#039;th&#039; in and its variations and the phonetics of English.  

&#039;Nederlandizi&#039; would have been a better choice, reflecting the manner in which the majority of speakers of Maltese would pronounce this word.  

There is no &#039;th&#039; in any onset or coda in Maltese syllables. 

The people who coined this may have an extensive background in Maltese linguistics, but that is not sufficient when dealing with loan words.  And this one word is proof of that.  

So maybe extending the membership to academics from other disciplines may be a good idea.

Please include my pet peeve  - &#039;televixin&#039;.  I&#039;d like them to explain that one.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2017/01/another-taghna-lkoll-word-nederlandizi/#comment-3115019">FP@DISQUS</a>.</p>
<p>&#8220;Netherlandiżi, by the way, appears to be a reasoned translation of Dutch, following the same principles adopted in translating numerous other words.&#8221;</p>
<p>I must disagree on this point.  It is not a reasonable translation.  Any person with a background in general and/or English linguistics would have seen this.  </p>
<p>Indeed, I suspect that the people who coined this word simply cut, copy and pasted it from English without looking into the etymological or historical development of the word itself, the spelling of &#8216;th&#8217; in and its variations and the phonetics of English.  </p>
<p>&#8216;Nederlandizi&#8217; would have been a better choice, reflecting the manner in which the majority of speakers of Maltese would pronounce this word.  </p>
<p>There is no &#8216;th&#8217; in any onset or coda in Maltese syllables. </p>
<p>The people who coined this may have an extensive background in Maltese linguistics, but that is not sufficient when dealing with loan words.  And this one word is proof of that.  </p>
<p>So maybe extending the membership to academics from other disciplines may be a good idea.</p>
<p>Please include my pet peeve  &#8211; &#8216;televixin&#8217;.  I&#8217;d like them to explain that one.</p>
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