Geronimo – Apache chief and consultant engineer to de Valette
Published:
February 17, 2009 at 10:34pm
The real Geronimo, in a 19th-century photograph
Geronimo was a famous 19th-century Native American leader of an Apache tribe. According to the FAA, he had a previous incarnation three hundred years earlier, as an engineering consultant to the Order of St John. This is from the FAA’s appeal for objections to the cathedral museum project.
“….for the catchment of rainwater and the disposal of waste water are 16th century engineering treasures, evidence of the advanced engineering techniques of Laparelli and Geronimo Cassar and of the Order’s foresight in ensuring Valletta’s water supply….”
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You’re killing me!
Geronimo in Malta! You couldn’t make it up. Love it. A laugh a day.
Daphne,
Actually Cassar is referred to as Geronimo in at least one source but more usually as Girolamo. One author writing in in Maltese refers to him as Glormu. I have not seen any documentation on Laparelli’s contribution to the drains of Valletta but he did channel the waters for a spring into cisterns (Valletta had no other springs it seems) while there is a reference to the sewage of the city being discharged below St Christopher’s bastion in the 1590’s. This seems to be Cassar’s work. I don’t subscribe to theories of reincarnation but the concept of our beloved Cassar (he was well liked by his contemporaries) coming back to life as an Indian Chief is very amusing.
…and I always thought it was Girolamo (Glormu in Maltese) Cassar……… But I even seem to remember that name on Gabra ta’ Ward (an old Maltese-language text book for primary classes)……
Hilarious! I suspected the FAA to be a bunch of nitwits, this is the living ( or should I say dying) proof of it!
Good morning, Daphne & Co.!
For interest’s sake: Geronimo and Girolamo are both Italian versions of Jerome, which is of Greek origin and means “sacred name”. The two are hence interchangeable. The original name of the Apache chief, Geronimo, was Goyathlay. It was the Christian Mexicans who nick-named him Geronimo.
If Goyathlay was not re-incarnated as Girolamo Cassar, then he surely was re-incarnated as Geronimo Abos, who was a Maltese composer of some repute.
[Daphne – Oh please.]
You must surely have realised that I was being very sarcastic in my last sentence? What did you think – that Geronimo was an Apache name? I’m laughing all the way to work this morning!
[Daphne – Moggy, if there’s one thing you can’t fault me on, it’s popular culture, including the popular culture of the past. In Anglophone popular culture, the name Geronimo refers to one person and one person alone: the Apache chief. Do a quick Google test and you’ll see, on both text and images. And no, I didn’t think it was his real name – just as I don’t think Pocahontas was her real name, either. In fact, I know so much about Geronimo, that I can tell you some more Trivial Pursuit factoids. Geronimo was the schoolyard war-cry throughout the British Empire (mine too, and probably yours). Do you remember when children yelled ‘Geronimo’ as they rushed at each other when playing Cowboys and Indians? It’s because of the Apache chief. Geronimo is not just a Latin name. It is also a singularly upper-class ‘English’ name, along the lines of Orlando and Balthazar, except that the English tend to use these names more for their dogs and horses than for their sons. In fact, the use of Geronimo instead of Girolamo in that petition request is a dead-cert give-away that the person who wrote it was either tal-pepe English or a tal-pepe Maltese ‘izjed Ingliz mill-Inglizi’ type (I have somebody in mind). Nobody Maltese-Maltese would ever have ‘translated’ the name to Geronimo. For that is what the use of this name almost certainly was: not a mistake as such, but a deliberate translation into ‘English’ of the name Girolamo. Now go and impress your friends with your new-found knowledge.]
The joke is on you Marku, Harry Purdie, Frank and Mario Debono. So much for thinking that it’s always “the others” who are nit-wits.
[Daphne – Kemm ghandek lanzit dalghodu, qalbi. Read my previous comment to see that the joke is actually on you.]
Here’s another twist, far-fetched as it is. Abos is an often derogatory term some racist whites use in this country when referring to the Australian aboriginals. Maybe this Geronimo has a longer pedigree than a mere few hundred years. According to some studies Aboriginal history and lineage dates back some 40 thousand years, if not more.
Oh double please!
I cannot see why my comments, which I posted at 9:09 and 9:12 hours have failed to be approved by your moderation. They were totally fair and civil. Is it because you feel you have been made a fool of Daphne? I find your reaction the height of unfairness. Babyish, even.
[Daphne – Grow up, sugar. All comments are checked for obscenity before being uploaded. I can’t possibly be glued to my computer 24 hours a day to stave off your tantrums. My work – and the rest of my life – involves long periods away from my desk. One such period lasted between 9am and 2.20pm today. Surely that’s allowed.]
[E. Grima – Maybe this Geronimo has a longer pedigree than a mere few hundred years. According to some studies Aboriginal history and lineage dates back some 40 thousand years, if not more.]
Possibly. Interesting bit about the Abos. Never knew that.
Another point of interest: Goyathlay (the real name of the Indian chief, not the one given to him by his Christian enemies and jailors) is literally translated (in Apache) as “one who yawns”.
[Daphne – Hmmm, been at the Wikipedia bottle again, have we?]
My comments were not obscene (and I am a good judge of what is obscene or not). If one is after a really fair, open discussion, then one would expect that all arguments are fairly represented. I understand that this is YOUR blog, and that I am a guest here, but I never expected this kind of biased moderation. I am very disappointed.
[Daphne – A couple of Valium should do the trick. Please see my previous comment. I was away from my desk between 9am and 2.20pm, started uploading comments at 2.30pm, and I’m still at it 90 minutes later. Moggy, I am a victim of my own success. In future, I shall be sure to upload all your comments first.]
Thanks. I now notice that they have been included.
[Daphne – Moggy, if there’s one thing you can’t fault me on, it’s popular culture, including the popular culture of the past. In Anglophone popular culture, the name Geronimo refers to one person and one person alone: the Apache chief.[/quote]
Simply not true. Forget Anglophone culture, Geronimo is an Italian variant of Girolamo, and it is also extensively used in Spain, and has been so for a long time (this incidentally fits in with the fact that Goyathlay is supposed to have been given his nick-name by Spanish descendants in Mexico). From Hieronymus, in Greek (not Latin) meaning “sacred name”, Jerome in English. Apart from being a first name, it is also used as a last name. [Daphne – You miss the point which I have been trying to make: Geronimo, like Orlando, despite being of Italian origin are also very, very English. You are more likely to find an upper-middle-class English man called Orlando than you are an Italian one, hence Orlando Bloom, and Orlando the Marmalade Cat, for example (that was one of my story-books). There have been many, many horses called Geronimo – in England, not in Italy. And you will hear the ‘war-cry’ Geronimo in Anglophone playgrounds, perhaps Italian ones too; I wouldn’t know about that.]
http://www.ancestry.com/facts/geronimo-family-history.ashx
http://www.answers.com/topic/geronimo-5
There were thousands of Geronimos before Goyathlay was given his nickname, and thousands after that.
[Daphne – Geronimo was the schoolyard war-cry throughout the British Empire (mine too, and probably yours). Do you remember when children yelled ‘Geronimo’ as they rushed at each other when playing Cowboys and Indians? It’s because of the Apache chief.]
I know all this. What relevance does it have? Girolamo is interchangeable with Geronimo and that’s that. Both are correct and both have been correct for centuries. It’s not going to stop now. [Daphne – It is NOT interchangeable. Your birth name is your birth name is your birth name. Some people feel the need to translate the names of famous people into their own language: the Italians love to do it (Il Principe Carlo, for example) and so do the English. A Maltese person would NEVER translate Girolamo to Geronimo, but an English or ‘more English than the English’ Maltese person might, and probably did.]
[Daphne – Nobody Maltese-Maltese would ever have ‘translated’ the name to Geronimo.[/quote]
They would probably have written it as Glormu, which is the Maltese for the name. [Daphne – It depends what sort of Maltese person you are talking about; certainly not the sort of Maltese person that would be interested in Astrid Vella’s petition, as you know.]
[Daphne – For that is what the use of this name almost certainly was: not a mistake as such, but a deliberate translation into ‘English’ of the name Girolamo.]
….or the legitimate use of a name both as used in Italian and Spanish. [Daphne -On a balance of probability, I would say not. All you have to do is assess the language used in that missive to conclude that the person who wrote it was definitely not Spanish or Italian.]
[Daphne – Now go and impress your friends with your new-found knowledge.]
No need to do that. This is a matter of no importance. [Daphne – It’s clearly a matter of some importance to you.]
[Daphne – Hmmm, been at the Wikipedia bottle again, have we?]
No, not Wiki, Daphne – some other site. You don’t expect me to know all this by heart, do you – as good as I, admittedly am?
Valium – Is that what you do when you’re disappointed? Tut, tut – naughty!
Re the comments, I could not have helped noticing that E. Grima’s comment had been uploaded before mine. His was posted at 12:54 hours, whilst my two were posted at 9:00 hours or thereabouts. There were also other comments on other threads (?) which were posted after mine, but appeared before. Maybe mine were too much of a handful to upload? I wonder. What we both need (instead of the Valium) is two glasses of some damned good wine and a laugh!
P.S. I congratulate you on being a victim of your own success.
[Daphne – I don’t take mood-altering drugs, whether legal or illegal. As for the order in which the comments were uploaded: it all depends whether I start from the beginning or the end. They come up as a long list on pages that flip over. Today I felt like a change and started from the end (which is at the top of the page, and so easier), then went back to the beginning. So please, no conspiracy theories.]
Hey Moggy!
Do nits have wits? Settle down, wouldn’t want to see you get your ‘nit’kers in a twist. Geronimo!
I remember you saying that you are not the moderator, or is my memory failing me?
[Daphne – I wasn’t for a long time, but then my moderator went away. He still does all the video and picture uploads, though.]
[Daphne – It’s clearly a matter of some importance to you.]
I hate innaccuracy, even in unimportant matters.
@Moggy
So why don’t you learn how to spell it?
@ John:
Haven’t you ever made a mistake?
not such a funny one
[Harry Purdie – Hey Moggy!
Do nits have wits?]
You seem to have one, so we can probably surmise that they do.
I fear our Moggy is out of her depth. Perhaps a few of Geronimo’s feathers would help. Soar to new heights?
–The spirit is wandering until a proper burial has been performed–
Breaking news:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090217/ts_alt_afp/ushistorynativejustice
Moggy, sorry I wasn’t around to respond to you earlier (some of us actually spend most of their day at work rather than on Wikipedia). Anyway, my point is this: show us one instance in a history text where Girolamo Cassar is referred to as “Geronimo” and I will call myself a nitwit on this blog.
@Marku
Here’s one. “….. Maestro Geronimo Cassar in qua hanno servito per Ingigneri …etc”
This is in a manuscript dated 29 July 1600 in the Palace Archives quoted by Prof.Victor Mallia-Milanes in Melita Historica 9(1986)3(247-269).
OK then, I declare myself a nitwit.
GIROLAMO Cassar if I am not mistaken , not GERONIMO.
[Daphne – I think you’ve missed out chunks of this exchange of views.]
GIROLAMO as in JEROME..
Postscript to the above
Cassar himself signed as GERONIMO. See Melita Historica vol.XIV no.1(2004) page 48 for a facsimile of his signature on a document dated 1589. This is not a “history text”. This is his ACTUAL SIGNATURE.
John, thank you for pointing this out. I hadn’t looked at this thread again and had missed all that was written after my last comment. As it is, Roger Vella Bonavita had cited at least one instance where the great Cassar was referred to as Geronimo, but you pointed us to two specific documents.
We are therefore, finally, agreed that Geronimo (the Christian name) preceded the nick-name given to Goyathlay, and is a variant of Girolamo/ Gerolamo.
As regards his date of death – yes, I found different dates in different references. 1586 seems to be a mistake.
@ Sybil: There are many variants of the name. You will find Cassar referred to as Gerolamo, Girolamo, Geronimo, Glormu – all derive from the Greek Hieronymus, English version: Jerome.