The Madonna gold rush
The seers of Medjugorje
Xarabank is not a documentary, but is designed for pure entertainment, so those who say that Angelik and Catherine Caruana should not have been given further exposure do not know what they are talking about.
The juxtaposition last Friday night of these two – with their devil encounters, their chats with angels, their hot-line to the Madonna, their stigmata and their miraculous Made in China statuette – and a forensic investigator, a pathologist and a psychiatrist made for the perfect show.
Sadly, I will have to include the other psychiatrist, the one with the hair, the necklace and the jumpy disposition, with the angels-and-demons crowd. He seems to me highly involved and in a way that does nothing to inspire confidence.
I’d never seen Catherine Caruana before, as I am not overly keen on visions, apparitions and the whole shebang. I knew that the far-from-ascetic visionary of Borg in-Nadur had a wife somewhere, and if I thought of her at all, it was as the poor wife, lumbered with this strange, attention-seeking man.
He appears to me to be of lower-than-average intelligence, and because women almost never marry men who have a lower IQ than they do, I somehow assumed she would be sort of simple.
But then I watched her on Xarabank and realised that this wasn’t right at all. The two are an extremely odd pairing: she thin, dyed, made up, fashionably dressed and sharp as a butcher’s arsenal; he grossly overweight like a man who can’t control himself, frumpy and with that unwashed slightly sticky appearance, with the blank expression of somebody you just know has to have the simplest things explained to him twice.
She was the one doing all the talking. When presented with Dr Abela Medici’s forensic evidence, she said in righteous tones that he is nobody to tell God what to do and how to communicate his message. Dr Abela Medici was too polite to remark that if his evidence is enough to incriminate men and have them sent down for 30 years then he is perfectly capable of explaining how a factory-made cheapo statuette came to be covered in salt, her husband’s blood and cooking-oil.
At one point, the camera homed in on the couple holding hands – only they weren’t holding hands, at all. She had her hand firmly over his, gripping it tightly. A casual observer might have said ‘How sweet, it’s a gesture of reassurance.’ But it wasn’t a gesture of reassurance at all. It was a restraining gesture, a controlling gesture, a staying gesture. It gave me the creeps.
Watching the whole performance, I couldn’t help but get the idea that this is not Angelik Caruana’s project at all, but his wife’s. She appears to be managing it. He appears incapable of doing so. He probably wants nothing more than a bit of peace and quiet, a couple of interesting video films and an unlimited supply of pies and cigarettes.
So why would she be doing it? The psychiatrists might have hazarded a guess, had the focus not been on her husband. Indeed, we have all made the same mistake in failing to see that Angelik is very probably truly a tool, only not the Holy Mother of God’s.
It could be a form of Munchausen’s Syndrome by Proxy. This is a condition which drives attention-seeking women to instigate the symptoms of illness in their children, so as to generate a lot of fuss on which they thrive. If faking the symptoms of illness fails to convince doctors, then in the more extreme cases these women actually end up harming their children in ways that cannot be interpreted as overt child abuse.
The damage is done not to hurt the children as such, but to convince doctors that they are ill and in need of plenty of fuss and attention.
Catherine Caruana appears to me to be suffering from this attention-seeking condition, only instead of using her children, she is using a mass-produced statuette which has been endowed with personality, and her husband – who, because of his inferior intelligence and undeveloped psychology, has been cast in the role of child rather than mate.
It seemed quite obvious to me that both the statuette and the husband are tools used for the end-purpose of directing attention to the wife, who is now claiming that she has been singled out by God for the transmission of his message.
I won’t enter the debate as to whether these two people are nutters or frauds or a bit of both. Certainly, they cannot be supernatural visionaries and it did not need the explanations of Malta’s leading forensic investigator and of a much-experienced forensic pathologist and psychiatrist to explain why.
Rational explanations, as we saw, are wasted on religious zealots, because religious zealots are by definition people who are predisposed to belief in the supernatural and the miraculous.
I will just say that a man who lies down on his bed by appointment with his angels and demons every Friday evening, to receive his stigmata – why doesn’t he go to the pub, where they won’t find him? – is very much in need of help, not television cameras.
Always a market for hysteria
There will always be a ready market for medieval-type religious hysteria. Geoffrey Chaucer’s The Pardoner’s Tale is as relevant today as it was in the 14th century. Look at what is happening with Medjugorje. Despite warnings from the Vatican about the quite obvious deceit and avaricious trickery, five million people a year make pilgrimages there from all over the world.
The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has been studying since 2006 the claims that the Madonna has been appearing to a group of six visionaries in Medjugorje, Bosnia, beginning in 1981. Writing in The Catholic Herald last June, the journalist Simon Caldwell – who is himself Catholic – quoted Bishop Andrea Gemma, the most senior exorcist in the Catholic Church until his retirement three years ago, as saying: “You’ll see that soon the Vatican will intervene with something explosive to unmask once and for all who is behind this deceit.”
Bishop Gemma described the Medjugorje stories as a scandal and a “diabolical deceit”. The irony does not escape me that I am quoting somebody who believes in demonic possession. I think he is worth quoting because it illustrates the quandary of those faced with selective belief in the supernatural. It is hard to tell people that they should believe in possession by devils but not in apparitions of talking Madonnas or in bleeding statuettes.
Bishop Gemma said: “It is a phenomenon which is absolutely diabolical, around which revolve many underground interests. Holy Mother Church, the only one able to pronounce, through the mouth of the Bishop of Mostar, has already said publicly, and officially, that the Madonna has never appeared at Medjugorje and that this whole sham is the work of the demon.”
“In Medjugorje everything happens in function of money: pilgrimages, lodging houses, sale of trinkets. So much so that abusing the good faith of those poor souls who go there thinking to encounter the Madonna, the false seers have organised themselves financially, have enriched themselves and live a rather comfortable life,” the bishop said. ”
Just think, one of them organises directly from America, with a direct economic interest, tens of thousands of pilgrimages every year. These don’t seem to me to be disinterested persons. Thus, together with those who shore up this noisy deception, they patently have every interest in convincing people that they see and speak with the Virgin Mary.”
It all began when six bored and suggestible children playing on a hillside convinced themselves they had seen the Madonna and that she had spoken to them. They didn’t meet with the response that a group of excitable little girls met with at our Sliema primary school back in the early 1970s, when they became entirely convinced that they had seen Our Lady walking on water down the road in Balluta Bay.
Hysteria spread through the school, but the headmistress brandished her notorious long black ruler during morning assembly and that was the end of that. If something similar had been done with the Medjugorge children, there would not be so much excitement today.
When the Bishop of Mostar dismissed their claims as duplicitous, the young seers responded by calling him a wolf who would die unless he believed them. The Vatican banned pilgrimages to Medjugorje way back in 1985, but still people flock there in their millions. A review of the seers’ claims was a long time coming. It had to wait until Pope Benedict took the throne, and began just three years ago.
Medjugorje has no interest in seeing the pilgrimages stop. What was once an insignificant backwater town that no one had heard of, and from which people departed in droves to find work, is now wealthy and thriving. This one town in the middle of nowhere gets more tourism business than Malta does. The Sunday Times (London) reported some time ago that the seers – now middle-aged, of course – have grown rich as a result of their 40,000 chats with the Virgin Mary. One of them has married an American beauty queen and makes a living by organising pilgrimages to Medjugorje from the United States.
There is worse. The Vatican has banished to a monastery the former spiritual leader of the Medjugorje seers amid accusations of sexual impropriety and a taste for séances.
His affairs with women have been extensively documented, and he has had a child by one of them, a nun called Sister Rufina, who exposed him when he refused to leave the priesthood and marry her and instead tried to bully her into keeping his secret. Severe restrictions have been placed on this priest, and he has been warned that if he fails to stick to them, he will be excommunicated.
The man who is now the pope has been convinced from the beginning that the Medjugorje seers are nothing more than con artists. The death-knell should have sounded for them when he was elected to the papacy, but the hysteria surrounding the pilgrimage site is now so deeply rooted that the message from the Vatican that Medjugorje is a fraud has not sunk in. Nor will it do so.
The fundamental problem that the Vatican has in situations like this is that its followers have been programmed from birth to believe in the supernatural and the irrational.
You cannot teach them that a man wearing a frock and holding up a bit of rice-paper in a fancy building is about to eat the real, actual flesh of another man who was the son of God 2000 years ago, and then insist that they disbelieve other men who claim that the Madonna has chosen them for cosy chats on remote hillsides.
This article is published in The Malta Independent on Sunday today.
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Medjugorje is an “obvious” deceit only to those who have not had the objectivity to actually visit there. What an arrogant as well as misinformed remark.
[Daphne – So Pope Benedict is arrogant and misinformed? I hardly think so, at least where this matter is concerned. I remember being told by somebody at yet another cocktail party, when I expressed polite interest in a recent trip to Medjugorje “Oh, you find such peace there.” I remember wondering what sort of life she might lead that she needs to travel to Medjugorje to find the peace I find at home on my sofa.]
To MB: The deceit is not in the fact that you might find peace in Medjugorje. Why shouldn’t you? It goes much deeper than that. It’s the way the Church has preyed on the impressionable young (and not so young), that is “diabolical deceit”.
Angelik’s tale falls under the same category. But then, it’s not entirely his fault. He’s been lied to.
Aaron, I cannot understand what you’re bleating on about. The Church has never approved the Medjugorje apparitions or backed the alleged visionaries – quite to the contrary, in fact.
“Bishop Gemma described the Medjugorje stories as a scandal and a “diabolical deceit”. The irony does not escape me that I am quoting somebody who believes in demonic possession.”
That’s the point I was trying to make in my post from the last article, but it didn’t seem to have struck any nerves. There is nothing more unbelievable in Angelik’s behaviour than in transubstantiation, or the “miracles” performed by the thousands of saints so often worshipped. Apply the same critical eye you do to Angelik’s stigmata to the stigmata of Padre Pio, the healing abilities of a glove, or the curing of cervical cancer by a picture of mother Theresa and you might be in for a surprise.
Servility and gullibility are extremely unattractive attributes.
I don’t know really but I think if there were actually no such visions wouldn’t have they found out by now? They’ve been bitching at the man for two years and still can’t come up with any definite proof.
[Daphne – The burden of proof is on him, not on us. Otherwise we can all lie down on our beds and fake labour pains and claim we’re being attacked by devils. Who’s to contradict us?]
I don’t know really, and I don’t particularly care because the messages being passed on are nothing controversial and nothing we didn’t particularly know before, so I don’t really understand all the fuss about him.
Angelik will have had the Immaculate Conception idea drummed into his head from a very young age. I don’t see why he should have to carry the can.
I’d rather like to see these purely Catholic inventions exposed for what they really are.
If Medjugorje is based on deceit, then so too is Lourdes and Maria Faustina Kowalska’s Jesus, who happens to fly the Polish colours, like a dashing cavalry officer.
Medjugorje, Lourdes and Maria Faustina, all leave the Pope, the dear dear Pope, in a quandary since to Catholics he is infallible (when speaking ex-catedra). I predict the looming Madonna crisis will be stage-managed very, very slowly, so as no to upset the applecart, with its billion-plus apples.
In the meantime, other opportunities will present themselves and the Church will through skillful diplomacy divert attention to more real-world problems. Then, so as to provide for further legitimacy, they will claim that the Madonna (perhaps with child) was behind it all.
The Church is starting to look like the European Union with its rotating presidency, or is it the other way round?
Angelik will have had the Immaculate Conception idea drummed into his head from a very young age. I don’t see why he should have to carry the can.
I’d rather like to see these purely Catholic inventions exposed for what they really are.
If Medjugorje is based on deceit, then so too is Lourdes and Maria Faustina Kowalska’s Jesus (who happens to fly the Polish colours, like a dashing Cavalry officer).
Medjugorje, Lourdes and Maria Faustina, all leave the Pope, the dear dear Pope, in a quandary since to Catholics he is infallible (when speaking ex-catedra). I predict the looming Madonna crisis will be stage managed very, very slowly (so as no to upset the apple cart, with it’s billion plus apples).
In the meantime, other opportunities will present themselves and the Church, will through skillful diplomacy, divert attention to more real-world problems and engineer a PR publicity stunt. (Perhaps after another of the many earthquakes that rock central Italy).
Then, so as to provide for further legitimacy, they will claim that the Madonna (perhaps with child) is behind it all, she being the universal icon of love, understood by all, desired by all.
The Church is starting to look like the European Union with it’s rotating presidency, or is it the other way round?
Congratulations, this is one of your best articles. I agree with you all the way. Prosit.
I agree with Daphne, and last week I expressed my concerns regarding the way professional people can be deceived. Again, I repeat that the majority of the population of Birzebbuga never believed the story, from day one. They know the Caruana couple well enough. I am writing not out of disrespect, but because I hate to see people getting deceived. One Wednesday, the old and ill followed Angelik up Borg In-Nadur hill, in heavy rain during a thunder-storm.
Excellent article. Soon they’ll resurrect the Girgenti fable.
[Daphne – http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20090330/world-news/madonna-appears-in-malawi-court
http://www.ourladyofconsecration.org/guza-mifsud-u-l-grajjiet-tal-girgenti/index.html ]
I have been all my life very sceptical about the well established Lourdes and Fatima, even more about the ‘recent’ Medjugorje, and, despite the thousands who succumb to such promotions, I have refused many attempts to lure me there. Mind you, I am a firm believer in God and would never underestimate His powers, but on the other hand, I would never expect God or the Holy Mary to try and convert the world through hilarious and pitiful staged visions as this Angelik is claiming.
God speaks to us directly through our thoughts, usually when we feel the least receptive. I believe the Church in Malta should immediately intervene, and declare the claims by this Birzebbugia family a scam, and not to be given any importance, especially by priests and religious people, who, by their presence, give credence to this whole charade.
If the Maltese Church declared Borg-in-Nadur and the Immaculate Conception anathema, it would almost certainly lead to its immediate disestablishment from Rome.
[Daphne – There is no such thing as the Maltese Church. It is the Roman-Catholic Church.]
Technically, the Maltese Church (the dioceses of Malta and Gozo) are legal entities in their own right.
[Daphne – No, they’re not, no more than the French embassy is a legal entity in its own right, rather than an outpost of France.]
My point is that the power of Church (in Malta and elsewhere) is in the unity of faith. It is impossible to have true unity where such error is present.
Oh dear.
http://images.google.com.mt/imgres?imgurl=http://www.illum.com.mt/covers/cover_march25_2007.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.illum.com.mt/2007/03/25/t1.html&usg=__Zjdbhr4pgawgnDl6FYxSo6KEP7g=&h=301&w=200&sz=16&hl=mt&start=47&tbnid=vSrOPn298ar-AM:&tbnh=116&tbnw=77&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dangelik%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D21%26hl%3Dmt%26sa%3DN%26start%3D42
[Daphne – “Din il-gazzetta ippruvat tieħu reazzjoni ta’ Angelik dwar numru ta’ punti, fosthom dwar reati li hu allegatament involut fihom u li s’issa għadhom ma ħarġux fil-mezzi tax-xandir. Angelik, imgeżwer f’inċirata, għamel sinjal li ma jridx jitkellem. B’nifsijiet twal ta’ eċitament ir-raġel kompla jlebbet ’l isfel mingħajr ma kkummenta xejn u ħarab mill-mistoqsijiet tagħna fosthom dwar l-analiżi tad-demm fuq l-istatwa tiegħu li x-xjenza kkonfermat li hu kompatibbli mad-demm tiegħu.” I LOVE IT.]
So Catherine was a policewoman. Mmmmmmmmmm, the plot thickens.
Then maybe Kev or the elephant man would like to shed some light on the people concerned in this case.
Here’s what probably happened when the HSBC teller, who was wearing scent, told him that there were insufficient funds in his account and she couldn’t meet his request for cash:
“Angelik jgħid li fis-26 ta’ Jannar, 2007 meta kien fil-Bank HSBC ta’ Birżebbuġa kellu sinjal ieħor. “Kienu xi 8.45am. Waqt li kont quddiem il-kaxxiera fil-bank f’daqqa waħda xammejt riħa tfuħ li s-soltu jkollha x’taqsam mas-Sinjura. Fl-istess ħin ixxarrabt bl-għaraq.”
Ahahahahaha, hilarious!
“Episodju ieħor marbut mas-26 ta’ Jannar, 2007 hu taċ-ċwievet ta’ Angelik li aktar qabel kien sostna li ma setax isibhom. F’dehra mill-‘Madonna’ li qed jallega li kellu dakinhar stess fis-2pm ir-raġel jgħid li din qaltlu li “iċ-ċwievet kien ħadhomli l-Anġlu Kustodju tiegħi biex jien ma jkollix aċċess għad-dar.”
Cigarettes can come in useful sometimes:
“Il-familja Caruana qed tirrapporta wkoll fenomeni oħra fid-dar tagħha fosthom ta’ żejt li qed joħroġ minn kopja ta’ ritratt ta’ l-istess statwa li fit-30 ta’ Ottubru tas-sena l-oħra Fr Hayden Williams poġġieh f’żewġ boroż tal-plastik issiġillati bil-magna. Angelik isostni li dakinhar fis-18.55pm kellu dehra.
“Is-Sinjura qaltli biex ngħid lil min kien ħdejja biex imur jagħti titwila lill-inkwatru.”
Martu Catherine marret tara. “Kif daħlet fil-kamra fejn hemm ir-ritratt xammet riħa bħal dik ta’ meta jinħaraq xi plastik. Hija sabet il-plastik li fih kien hemm l-inkwatru b’toqob imdewba fih. Minkejja li l-plastik kien doppju, għax kienu żewġ boroż imissu ma’ xulxin, wara nnutajna li kien hemm bnadi fejn il-ħarqa misset kemm il-borża ta’ barra kif ukoll dik ta’ ġewwa, iżda kien hemm bnadi fejn il-plastik kien imdewweb biss f’ta’ barra jew biss f’ta’ ġewwa bla ma kien hemm ħarqa korrispondenti fuq il-borża l-oħra.”
Angelik qed isostni li “is-Sinjura qaltli li dan kien għamlu dak il-ħin stess l-Anġlu bħala sinjal li x-xewqa tagħha hi li r-ritratt ma jkunx issiġillat.”
Now I get it: Our Lady didn’t trust Fr Hayden to go and check the sealed picture, and asked that Angelik’s wife do so instead. U le …
Fascinating stuff:
“Fil-ġimgħat li ġejjin Angelik Caruana mistenni jitressaq il-Qorti b’rabta ma’ telefonata anonima b’theddid li saret lil din il-gazzetta. It-telefonata saret jumejn wara li fit-18 ta’ Frar li għadda Illum bdiet tinvestiga l-allegati dehriet tal-Madonna u d-demm uman li ‘bkiet’ l-istatwa proprjetà ta’ Angelik.
F’dik il-ħarġa din il-gazzetta tefgħet dawl fuq it-testijiet tad-demm li normalment isiru mhux biss fuq l-istatwa iżda wkoll fuq il-membri tal-familja ikkonċernata.”
The Virgin Mary made him do it.
Once a policeman/woman always a policeman, isn’t that how the saying goes? It seems that ex PC Catherine is in full control; she writes the script, the fool acts it out.
Anybody knows the outcome of the anonymous telephone call arrest?
http://www.illum.com.mt/2007/03/18/top_story.html
“Wara l-istħarriġ li għamilna kien feġġ fenomenu ta’ numru ta’ każijiet ta’ frodi minn Angelik Caruana fuq għadd sostanzjali ta’ ħwienet u individwi f’Birżubbuġa. Kien ħareġ biċ-ċar kif il-komunità f’dan ir-raħal hi nkurlata għall-mod kif inbniet din l-istorja minn sezzjoni tal-media.”
Oh Jiminey Cricket!
http://www.illum.com.mt/2007/03/18/top_story.html
Il-magħżulin’ tal-Madonna
F’sit ta’
l-internet li riċentament tnieda minn Angelik Caruana
(www.borgin-nadur.org) hemm miktub li f’waħda mid-dehriet li kellu mill-‘Madonna’ din indikatlu sitt persuni li għażlithom biex permezz tagħhom twettaq pjan.
Skond Angelik Caruana fost il-persuni magħżula hemm ċertu Andrè Vassallo Grant li hu Direttur fi ħdan il-Ministeru tas-Solidarjetà Soċjali. Inċidentalment, Angelik Caruana jaħdem fiċ-Ċentru għat-taħriġ ta’ l-Adulti f’Ħal Far li jaqa’ taħt il-kappa ta’ l-istess Ministeru u taħt id-direzzjoni ta’ l-istess Vassallo Grant.
Is-sitt persuni magħżula mill-‘Madonna’, dejjem skond Angelik Caruana, huma Angelik innifsu, martu Catherine, Fr Hayden (direttur spiritwali ta’ Angelik) Fr David, Andrè Vassallo Grant u Doreen, il-mara ta’ Vassallo Grant.
Dawn ta’ l-aħħar huma l-persuni li waqqfu grupp ta’ talb bl-isem MIR. L-esperjenzi ta’ Angelik inkluż tad-dehriet li jkollu, jintużaw fil-laqgħat ta’ dan il-grupp.
The Madonna’s chosen one:
http://www.msp.gov.mt/services/subpages/content.asp?id=1676&heading=Director%20(Programme%20Implementation)
Small wonder our civil service is in such bad state! Good to know how our tax money is being spent.
I have this vision on how problems are solved within the Social Policy Department; all civil servants are gathered in one room and they pray for a solution. Thanks, Daphne – you made my day!
Even better – maybe he takes them to Medjugorje to pray, and pockets some commission in the process.
http://www.mir4malta.org/mir_organisers_02.html
“Other messages that Caruana says he is receiving from the Madonna are for prayer, fasting and penance” http://www.maltamedia.com/news/2005/ln/article_11544.shtml
It looks like he’s disobeying her about the “fasting” bit, just as he is doing with the “giving up cigarettes” one. Can the masses who follow him up the hill weekly not see the man for what he must really be?
[Daphne – Let’s give him a break. Maybe he eats six pies instead of 10. Wara kollox, naqqas is-sigaretti, ta, hej.]
You’re being unfair! Maybe he does fast.. in between meals
“Fr Williams also expressed his wish for MIR meetings not to be sensational in nature especially in regard to these incidents.” ( http://www.maltamedia.com/news/2005/ln/article_11544.shtml ) Maybe Fr Williams had then better tell the Caruanas directly.
http://www.mir4malta.org/
http://www.doi.gov.mt/en/ministries_and_departments/ministr_social1.asp
And this is a really scary one:
http://www.youtube.com/ourladyera
Maybe, but this – provided as a link on the Borg-in-Nadur site – is creepier still:
http://doreenvella.blogspot.com/
[Daphne – X’biza ta’ nies. The best that can be said of them is that at least their obsession doesn’t involve guns.]
I don’t know what to make of the whole lot. Fr Hayden himself was a “charismatic” at 15, and was asked to lead the group at 17. ( http://www.mir4malta.org/mir_organisers_01.html ) If he were my son, I’d probably have discouraged him from day one and encouraged him to get a life first, especially since he always seems so sombre.
[Daphne – I don’t know what it is about these people, but they use God as a substitute for life, and happiness is clearly not allowed. Like the saints on their holy pictures, they’re all so damned grim.]
I THIRST 4 souls? Maybe Soul-sucking Vampires do exist after all. It even has vampire porn: http://www.pithyurl.com/?IAAWK
@Amanda Mallia
No, Kev is busy trying to convince The Times readers that he knows more than Simon Busuttil on the abortion protocol. In his own words: ” Simon is the past, I am the future”.
Rest assured though that he’s lurking somewhere silently on this blog.
“Fr Hayden works close with Andre’ and Doreen Vassallo Grant, and Fr David Cefai SJ in conducting the MIR Prayer Meeting and the pastoral ministry that results from this meeting.” (http://www.mir4malta.org/mir_organisers_01.html)
http://www.maltarightnow.com/default.asp?module=news&at=il-homework+mill-knisja+qed+isir&t=a&aid=99807220&cid=19
http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/2007/12/30/n3.html
Here’s something I wrote on 28 September 2006:
“Oh no, somebody has seen the mother of God in Birzebbuga again. She must love the place. Well, I suppose it’s a lot better than Paceville. A man who lives there claims he saw the Madonna with her palms pressed together and holding brown rosary beads.
What a surprise. Somebody should tell him that’s what is known as an anachronism: rosary beads were invented many hundreds of years after her assumption into heaven. If this man were to take a time machine back to AD30 or so, and hand her his rosary beads, she would think it was a necklace.
As for her hands being “together”, where else would they be if not in the pose popularised by a zillion holy pictures and effigies? What are the odds that when he saw her, she was wearing a long Madonna-blue gown and a blue cloak over her head? I’d say those odds are pretty big.
This man says that the Madonna is asking for conversion in Malta “and in the world, particularly in Iran, China, Russia, the USA and Australia.” He listens to the news, at any rate – I’ll give him that. By some amazing coincidence, as reported in the newspapers, this Angelik Caruana belongs to the family who claimed some months ago that their Madonna effigy had been crying. If I say why I think she was crying, it will sound facetiously blasphemous to some ears, so I won’t.
OK, I’ll say it anyway: maybe she was bored in Birzebbuga. The Archbishop’s Curia has told us not to jump to conclusions, without specifying whether the conclusion it doesn’t want us to jump to is that the Madonna appeared, or that she did not appear. I’m jumping to my own conclusion, thank you, because I really don’t think we need to be examining any evidence here: she didn’t appear.
It’s odd how, when these things happen, the Madonna is never wearing the clothes she would have worn, and nor does she look like she would have done. Instead, she looks like one of those little statues they sell as souvenirs: fair of face, with neat tresses and clad in pristine pale blue.
Next time these people choose to see an apparition of the Madonna, they could do some research first, and find out what women looked like and what they wore when they were very poor, in Palestine 2000 years ago. She would have been indistinguishable from the thousands of women enduring life in the Occupied Territories today, and she wouldn’t have worn baby-blue.
Any dye was prohibitively expensive in those days, and blues and purples were the most expensive of all, which is why they were the preserve of royalty and the aristocracy. And that is the very reason why the Madonna was depicted in blue from mediaeval times onwards: because it was the colour of clothing worn by the privileged classes and royalty. Only they could afford it. The Madonna, in her lifetime, could not.
An apparition in blue, with a set of rosary beads in her hands, cannot be taken seriously, even if you are inclined to take these things seriously in the first place.”
There’s more.
“After the programme it was alleged that Dr Portelli was physically and verbally abused by Mrs Caruana. As the doctor was escorted out of the studio and to his car by security staff, the wife was allegedly heard saying, and I paraphrase: You know who’s keeping me back? The Madonna is holding me back.
When interviewed by a reporter, Dr Portelli is reported to have stated: “I cannot see any divine intervention when I was physically attacked by this woman”. ”
And even more:
“According to hearsay, persons who were present during one of Our Lady’s alleged apparitions said that Mr Caruana told them that the Madonna had praised Xarabank for helping her spread her message and – wait for it – the Madonna apparently asked Mr Caruana whether the Xarabank presenter preferred to be called Peppi or Joe!”
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20080214/opinion/optical-illusions
Even better, on the link you provided, is this extract from a comment:
“We are told both at Borg in-Nadur and at the Mir prayer meetings. that if these things are coming from God, then they will continue, but if they are not coming from God, they will stop.”
Have such people got no mind to think with?
The weeping Madonna was bought from a pet-shop. How much is that doggy in the window?
http://www.maltamedia.com/news/2005/ln/article_9745.shtml
http://www.arrigogroup.com.mt/pilgrimages/nadur.html
I wonder what sort of commission is handed out, if any.
http://www.metacafe.com/tags/angelik_caruana/
Keep your eyes on Catherine Caruana and her camera
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blOVjRaaT08&feature=related
With such bad acting, I’m surprised there are people buying into this!
For those who are unaware, Catherine Caruana is not the round one who held up the thorn with a look of triumph; she is the bespectacled, skinny one in a peacock blue v-neck t-shirt worn over a white one.
I guess you could also say that she’s the one who tried to look surprised at the apparance of the thorn, and who seemed to be handing out orders to others instead of comforting her husband, who was supposedly in extreme pain.
You lot can be as cynical as you like but you ain’t seen nothing yet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qG5V2iBvFs
Angelik could not reply to the reporter because he was alone — his wife was not by his side ‘holding’ his hand.
The story of the Jewish Messiah has been twisted beyond recognition. Even the children of Israel had to distance themselves from it, after Constantine I’s “baptism” in 337CE.
Brings to mind a couple of lines from a beautiful song:
‘Send In The Clowns’
Don’t you love farce?
My fault, I fear.
I thought that you’d want what I want –
sorry, my dear.
But where are the clowns?
Send in the clowns.
Don’t bother, they’re here.
I just can’t believe that there are people who can’t see through this charade. Note also how the majority of the awe-stricken spectators are middle-aged women.
The Catholic religion has in its own foundation the seed of its own contradiction. The foundation of the Catholic religion is Jesus Christ and the fact that his life and doings were predicted from time immemorial. Yet the most important detail in the Catholic religion is the individual’s free and indomitable will. Meaning that there is *nothing* an individual couldn’t or wouldn’t do given the right tools and the right circumstances.
This in itself raises a very important question: how can free will and prophesy go together? If everything is preordained, there can be no free will.
The further back in time a prophesy was spoken/declared the more generations areaeffected and their free will becomes secondary to the fulfillment of the prophesy.
It is that either there is no such thing as free will, or there is no such thing as prophesy. I opt for the latter.
Even from a scientific or philosophical perspective there is no such thing as “free will”. We are all a product of the past, shaped by the present and can influence the future. The present and the past impose limitations on an individual’s free will and on how much he or she can influence the future.
Recent (and not so recent) scientific breakthroughs into quantum phenomena suggest a more complex model of the universe, whereby, at least at the subatomic level, a particle, unless observed, can have any number of indeterminate states, which then lock into a determined state (hence observed reality) once observed or measured (aka the Heisenberg Principle). Any effects at subatomic level, over time, will affect the bigger realities we perceive (the Butterfly Effect). Hence, with the new model of the universe, things are not so clearcut as with classical Newtonian physics, where everything was modeled in mechanistic terms. There is still a lot of debate as to what actually constitutes human thought (and any living creature’s thought for that matter). For instance, recent studies suggest that the brain is holographic, i.e. by selectively removing parts of the brain, this does not remove memories selectively, but rather hazes all existing memories. This strongly indicates that memory is not stored in the brain in three dimensions, but rather in four or more dimensions. There are theories that hypothesise that the brain is actually a quantum device, in which case the classical mechanistic model (lacking free will) is superseded by one which does in fact involve a higher control mechanism outside and above mechanistic phenomena (commonly known as free will). Nothing supernatural about it however. We just don’t understand the details as yet.
Wow, me, that’s really profound. Nobody ever thought of that.
You are right, there is nothing more frightening that giving up your sense of self and becoming ‘transparent’ (from the Hebrew Kadosh, lit. transparent).
It is in (yes actually ‘in’) God’s transparency that we are able to see or know the end of all things (what you are calling prophecy here).
Will is the means by which we choose to become either transparent or opaque.
[Daphne – This reminds me why religion bores me.]
This is doing the rounds by email now.
http://digg.com/world_news/Pope_John_Paul_II_and_the_Miracle_Picture_Is_This_True
These are my comments: Antonio Gramsci, the communist atheist, and Indro Montanelli, the liberal journalist and atheist, returned to the CATHOLIC faith on their death-bed. You haven’t yet passed from this experience, Daphne, but like everyone you will. We will pray that you will be given the same grace as the two aforementioned gentlemen.
[Daphne – I can no more return to the Catholic faith than I can return to Buddhism. To return to something, you must first have been part of it. I’m not a lapsed Catholic but a never-was Catholic. The Catholicism of my childhood might as well have been girl guides or ballet lessons. There are many myths about people who re-embraced Catholicism on their death-bed. It appears to be a factor peculiar to Catholicism: if it is the one true religion, then it must be bolstered by stories of people who realised that this was so when they were about to pass into the other world. All I can say is that one’s death-bed is the most private place on earth, and nobody else can possibly know what happens there bar immediate family who might have vested interests of their own. For every piece of fiction about somebody who became a Catholic when dying, I can tell you of a hundred real, true cases known to me of people whose scepticism about religion became even stronger the older they grew.]
The best engineer in the world, when sinking, will in desperation clutch at a floating matchstick, even with full knowledge that this will not keep him afloat. We have to give credit where due: religion does give hope to billions of people around the world by providing them with a meaning to their suffering and the promise of a reward. It’s the ultimate wishful thinking becoming a way of life. And many people, driven by their faith, have in fact done great deeds, as much as others have massacred millions or infidels driven by that same faith.
The issue is, however, that nobody knows the truth. However, for the record, life without fairy tales is still very much worth living, probably even more rewarding than living a life in continuous fear of burning for eternity. On the contrary to what many people have been led to believe, you can be an honest person without believing in deities as much as you can be a crook who believes. I am of the personal conviction that there are more criminals with religious backgrounds than criminal unbelievers – I’m just waiting to come across some statistics to back me up on this one, and recently I did stumble across a study that indicated that Nordic countries such as Norway donated much more in charity than Mediterranean (Catholic) countries.
I think people (especially children) have to be taught, first and foremost, to have faith in themselves and in their abilities, before being taught to have faith in God or Buddha or Allah, etc. For what use is having faith in X to pick you up when you fall, and not making the effort to pick yourself up because you are convinced that you can only do so with the help of X? It always manages to put a smile on my face when I hear the advice “Help yourself so that God can help you”. For if the will of God is tied to my own will, then me and God are one and the same thing, and having faith in myself is equivalent to having faith in God. So I think in the end, whether we are theists, pantheists, atheists, agnostics, etc., we all have an element of faith that keeps us going on and provides a purpose to our otherwise mundane existence. Some people just go to a great extent with this and personify this aspect of their psyche, and build a religion around these concepts.
No clue about Montanelli, but the report about Gramsci’s deathbed conversion seems to be a complete fabrication. Much like the “lady hope” of Darwin, claiming he, as well, had a deathbed conversion.
Sadly, your argument falls completely flat even if it were true, but based on a lie it’s just pathetic.
Also I find it so morbid how religious people so easily toss around the end-of-life play-card. You don’t find it a bit rude presuming what Daphne would – or in this case even should – act like in her final moments? Feel free to wish her a long and healthy life, but I think you should leave her dying days out of the equation.
You are forgetting something that could be at play here. Some people are convinced of the presence of other persons or beings, even if they do not exist and even if they are mentally sane in every other respect.
As an example, genius mathematician John Forbes Nash had this condition (illustrated brilliantly in the film “A Beautiful Mind”).
[Daphne – Yes. It’s called schizophrenia.]
Schizophrenia rarely goes hand in hand with mass hysteria and you’ve left his wife out of the equation who seems to be the head behind this whole thing.
@Andrea Sammut : the email about the Pope’s picture is a scam : view : http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/p/photo-pope-virgin.htm
@Daphne : You are right that Angelik is not highly intelligent. He is also highly overweight, with an enormous behind and paunch, and shuffles rather than walks. He also mumbles when he speaks.
And yet persons who were near him during his visionary moments heard him speak in Latin at least once. He also apparently speaks clearly when in this state.
[Daphne – Would these persons perhaps be Latin speakers themselves, and able to tell the difference between real use of the language and ‘domum mansum hectorum denses’ type mumbo-jumbo?]
One person I know well, who is not one of those arm-waving hysterical charismatics, also recounted first-hand how he was standing next to Angelik and literally saw him being thrown up in the air, spin round and fall flat on the ground several feet away, dislocating his shoulder in the process.
[Daphne – Please. If your friend is not a hysterical type, he would not have been there in the first place. Secondly, as you can see from the videos posted here, every one of these meetings is teeming with cameras of all sorts. Catherine Caruana sticks a camera in her husband’s face. If this event occurred, it would have been recorded. Somewhere here I mentioned an incident from my primary-school days, when large numbers of children became convinced that they had seen ‘Our Lady’ walking on water in Balluta Bay. By the end of the day, half the school was convinced that they had seen it, too. On the school-van going home, we were all craning our heads to see, and yes, we saw her walk on water. Wasn’t that amazing? It’s called mass hysteria and suggestibility.]
This friend of mine helped him get his shoulder back in place and categorically states that there is no way anybody could do something like that-let alone that “fat and frumpy” Angelik. (BTW-Angelik’s wife was not next to him during this incident).
The psychiatrist – “the one with the hair” – was not involved in Angelik’s case to start off with, and was only asked to carry out tests due to his profession. As far as I know, he has always stated that tests are ongoing, and that although so far he has not found any wrongdoing. He would be the first to state that it is a scam should his findings show this. I am also highly doubtful whether somebody in his position would be prepared to ruin his reputation by backing up a scam – that is if it is a scam in the first place.
[Daphne – But that is precisely the point. It is evident that Dr Mark Xuereb is far from uninvolved. A dispassionate and disinterested reaction would be that of the far more senior psychiatrist Dr Mifsud, of the forensic investigator Dr Abela Medici, and of the forensic pathologist Albert Cilia Vincenti.]
I saw the Xarabank “show” on Friday. One of my concerns was that to my knowledge none of the sceptical professionals on the panel have ever carried out any tests on Angelik, or on his family, or on his home, or on anything/any place related to this matter.
[Daphne – There is no need, Christian. A man lying on his bed and moaning is just that: a man lying on his bed and moaning. A statuette plastered with the blood of its owner is just that: a statuette plastered with the blood of its owner.]
As far as I am aware, Dr. Abela Medici’s “forensic evidence” was a photo of the Madonna printed off an internet site. I always believed that professionals would carry out a number of adequate and serious tests before giving their verdict.
[Daphne – Christian, please. Dr Abela Medici carried out extensive tests at the request of the Archbishop’s Curia – not that there was any need to do so. He did not simply produce a photograph on a television show. Dr Abela Medici is Malta’s leading forensic investigator. People have been jailed for life on the basis of his investigations.]
Personally I would prefer to wait for more information to come up on the matter, rather than acting like a judge-and-jury from the ease of my laptop.
[Daphne – It’s not ‘acting judge and jury’. It’s having commonsense. Both of us agree that Father Christmas does not exist, and neither of us is waiting for hard evidence before we make our minds up.]
The story of the “white lady” was doing the rounds at school for years afterwards. She later on morphed into one wearing massive sunglasses, who’d scare the primary school children in the stairwells. One of the girls – a Caruana, as fate would have it, though from Msida, not Birzebbugia – had even fainted on seeing her.
[Daphne – I can no more return to the Catholic faith than I can return to Buddhism. To return to something, you must first have been part of it. I’m not a lapsed Catholic but a never-was Catholic. The Catholicism of my childhood might as well have been girl guides or ballet lessons.]
Did you bring up your children in the catholic faith and let them participate in the sacraments?
[Daphne – No, I didn’t. They were baptised because I wanted them to be at least nominally Christian, and because I saw no point in upsetting the grandparents and great-grandparents. When they were at mass (funerals, weddings, with grandparents) they went up for the host if they wanted to, just as they would have gone up for a Coke at a party. But that’s where it ended. I bear no grudge against the Catholic Church and feel no ambivalence towards it. If I am invited to a wedding, I am quite happy to go to mass, and when I am there, I will join in the routine – just as I would if invited anywhere else to any other ceremony. Quite frankly, ‘Sybil’, it would have been far better if your parents had done the same thing and given more importance to the matter of ensuring that you do not grow up to be a racist. Because they did not, they now have a daughter who goes to mass in between spouting racist venom on internet sites where spiritually hideous people congregate. Christianity is not a label but a way of life.]
Gramsci’s deathbed conversion to Catholicism is an urban legend based on the testimony of a nun.
http://www.cathnews.com.au/article.aspx?aeid=10411
I don’t know about Montanelli although it is odd that his obituary not only did not make reference to the faith he supposedly found recently but actually said that religious ceremonies would not be welcome.
http://www.rainews24.rai.it/ran24/speciali/montanelli/necrologio.htm
I am transparent to chicks but opaque to beer.
I am solid but not thick (at least I can spell).
I wear my heart on my sleeve even with a T-shirt.
I will to be transparent even though I will be opaque but I haven’t made my will yet and this is all a load of kadosh.
What am I?
[Daphne – What sort of chicks? Fluffy ones that hatch from eggs, or the sort you find at parties?]
[Daphne – What sort of chicks? Fluffy ones that hatch from eggs, or the sort you find at parties?]
I tend to attract attention when I enter a hatchery. Does that answer your question?
I now more than believe that LIBERALS can be intolerant and arrogant. The Catholic faith is fiction and what they say is the truth. I repeat Liberals are intolerant and arrogant.
[Daphne – Hohum.]
Daphne, the “Latin” language was confirmed to be just that i.e. Latin, not mumbo jumbo. By people who studied Latin.
[Daphne – It seems like a fortunate coincidence that there were people who knew Latin standing within earshot when he decided to spout. I hope they took a transcript.]
You seem to imply that any person who bothered to visit “Borg in-Nadur” is of the “hysterical type”…………
..I disagree, simply because you get all sorts of people going there for entirely different reasons – curiosity, faith (or people seeking faith), devotion, and whatever else imaginable.
[Daphne – Visitors to Borg in-Nadur fall into roughly two categories: those who are bored and in search of a free freak-show, and those who are credulous and hoping to be convinced. People like me just don’t bother, unless they want to write about the experience. Actually, perhaps that’s something I should do.]
The incident that my friend related happened after all the prayers, “visions” etc were over, and not during it. However several other people would have seen what happened, including him getting Angelik’s shoulder back in.
[Daphne – I don’t think I can take any more of this. I’m not disputing that his shoulder may have been dislocated after a fall. I ended up having surgery to repair my wrist after being knocked over by my dog, and I’m nowhere near as large and heavy as Angelik. A fall is just a fall. It wasn’t the devil who spun me around. It was my dog. Even though I didn’t see him doing it, I knew it was him because he was the only one present who could have done.]
Again, I am not trying to convince anyone about the matter. Everybody has a right to their own beliefs or otherwise, and personally it would not affect me whatever the outcome of this matter.
However if Dr Abela Medici really and truly has carried out investigations IN RELATION TO THE CLAIMS OF ANGELIK CARUANA, then what is preventing him in making his investigations public, so that criminal action would be taken especially against those who have signed a notarial oath?
[Daphne – This is really trying my patience. Yes, Dr Abela Medici really and truly carried out investigations in relation to the claims made by Angelik Caruana. He was commissioned to do so by none other than the Archbishop of Malta. He has no reason to lie about this on prime-time television, nor would he do so unless rendered temporarily insane. He has made the results public. He explained those results in detail on television last Friday. You are saying that you don’t believe him when he says that the blood is 1. male and 2. Caruana’s, and you wish to see the actual DNA test. It is not up to him to release those papers, but up to his client, the Archbishop of Malta. When you carry out a job for a client, that job is private, and cannot be publicised without the client’s permission. Presumably, his client gave him the green light to talk about the subject on Xarabank.]
Daphne, you forget that people who are terminal, lame and sick also go along in droves to this charade. That in itself is shameful. Their relatives should know better. However I know someone who was terminal, and now has passed away, who used to go. He said he had nothing to lose. And he didn’t. When you have pancreatic cancer, which is a sure killer, you try everything.
[Daphne – We are all ‘terminal’, Mario. It’s just a matter of when, not if.]
Yes, but given the chance, we cling to life. Wouldn’t you?
[Daphne – It all depends on the circumstances. And the means I would use would involve science and not religion. I disagree with this business of having nothing to lose so trying a visit to Lourdes just in case. When you only have a short time left, that’s a week wasted – and valuable time lost. I’ve noticed that some people who know that they will be dead within months waste so much of that time jumping through useless hoops instead of just plain being.]
Let us consider a person that due to particular circumstances finds out that he is suffering from heart disease and does not have much to live. He consults his physician who on his part suggests surgery. After explaining to his patient all that the practice involves and the very long convalescence period he cannot give more than a 60/40 chance of success. After careful thought and consultation with his family he decides to take the chance and commits his existence in the hand of the physician with all the defects and problems that a human being can have.
Another person, in the height of his health and with no health problems claims to be the son of god. He knows the past, the present and the future and whatever he asks of his father he is sure to get. Knowing full well all the prophesies that must be fulfilled and more. Knowing full well that the suffering that is to engulf him wouldn’t take longer than a few hours. Knowing full well that even after death he can beat the system and rise. Knowing full well that after rising there would be nothing on earth/heavens that could harm him.
How come he was afraid of what was to befall him?
A prophesy must by its own intrinsic value transcend time and space. Let us for a moment imagine a prophesy as it is pronounced some hundreds of years before its fulfilment.
Our planet is spinning on its axis at about 1,000 km/hr, which is going around the sun at 6,480,000 km/hr in a solar system that is rotating at the edge of a galaxy at 47,500,000 km/hr in a galaxy that is itself moving at its centre at 130,000,000 km/hr (speed cameras anyone?).
Now multiply with the number of days/months/years for the fulfilment of a prophesy and try to imagine all the permutations that have to be taken into account for its fulfilment.
It is calculated that there are more galaxies in the known universe than grains of sand on all the combined beaches of the world.
The human race in all its ego and glory is less than dust in the wind.
“The human race in all its ego and glory is less than dust in the wind.”
And yet the faithful think the almighty has done all this with them in mind.
Being Catholic is a process of falling and getting up again. It is also a process of metanoia, the inner change that leads one to have a personal relationship with God. It’s an invitation that many do not accept. But whatever faith one is, it’s an intensely personal choice and a private choice as well.
I don’t believe in the Angelik fairy tales. God doesn’t work like that, or say things like His Mother is reported to be saying, because he is not a vengeful God. I don’t approve of public displays of childlike, small-minded faith. Unfortunately, most Maltese have that kind of faith, believing in mumbo-jumbo as opposed to what really matters.
I will say one word about Guza tal-Girgenti, however. I never went to her prayer meetings, but I did meet her. The woman had a gentle aura of someone touched by something. To this day, I am still curious about her. I cannot put my finger on it now. But somehow I felt she was special.
@J Busuttil – you didn’t quite repeat the same thing there.
Even Catholics CAN BE intolerant and arrogant.
I was expecting Peppi Azzopardi and his team to ask Angelik to take a lie-detector test in front of the cameras. That would have spiced up the programme a little bit more.
Great idea. Wonder why Peppi didn’t think about it.
I again state that all the people of Birzebbuga have no doubt that this is a scam. Only one episode I strongly believe that truly happened and it is about the HSBC teller serving Angelik.
I had a similar experience to this one, because one particular blonde teller at that branch is more like a movie star. As we say in Maltese, “thollok min gewwa meta tarah”.
.
Message of 16 April 2009:
“The Maltese Catholic people were shocked when they came to know that on the order of the European Union Atheists, the Government, led by an ex-president of the Catholic Action, issued instructions so that during Good Friday and Easter Saturday Maltese flags shall not be raised so as not to insult people of other religions.”
Read more …
http://www.cnimalta.org/160409E.html
I wish they outlawed blue boxes on a cyan background.
“…the will of the atheist majority of the European Union”
I hope this is a prophecy.
Further:
“Apart from the illegal immigrants and citizens from the countries of the European Union,
* we have more than 8,000 foreigners working with permission in Malta.
All these thousands are taking
* the work and bread
* of thousands of Maltese workers
* who cannot find work to sustain their families and therefore
* have to live with social assistance.”
They are really seeing me as a threat… I feel strangely honoured.
This site is hilarious. The number of illogical arguments are insanely high. Just a shame my poor tired eyes had to take such a toll reading it.
If this is the best the Campaign for National Independence can come up with then I think you need us foreigners as well.
@Anna
a lie detector would have ended the programme not spiced it up.
I was waiting for something extraordinary last Friday to happen on TV. We were told on Xarabank that the devil attacks the poor Angelik on Fridays. Xarabank was transmitted live last Friday. So why wasn’t Angelik attacked? Does Peppi have any paranormal powers?
The registrant for the cni website is a bloke whose name and telephone number appear in another website: http://www.maltacuba.org/
Are they one and the same person? The mind boggles.
Not sure how this issue came up on a blog entry about Angelik and his amazing mystical adventures. However, regarding the Malta Cuba Society, it is no surprise that their postal address indicates the premises of the old Maltese Communist Party.
Incidentally, the CNI website is a masterpiece of hypocrisy. In the first part they are scandalised because the EU has banned crucifixes and is “insulting our beliefs”. They then continue further down to attack immigrants (who bring diseases, steal jobs, make Maltese women pregnant, etc) and, with supreme irony that they cannot even see, lament that “the granting of Maltese citizenship has been enlightened too much”.
@Andrea
Not unless they started testing Angelik towards the end of the programme, and then left the audience with the suspense of ‘Ikompli gimgha ohra’. Can you imagine the whole country speculating for a whole week on the result of the lie-detector test? Xarabank could also have opened its televoting lines throughout the week with a ‘Tahseb li Angelik ghadda mill-Lie Detector Test? Jekk Iva, cempel etc etc etc.’ Guaranteed good income. Oh and the underground book makers would have had a field day too. And the drama continues…
I am 37 and have been a Catholic all my life. I have a degree in theology and computer science from a catholic university. I have been to Medjugorje two times. My trips to Medjugorje have been profound and unmistakably life changing. My faith has increased, my belief in God has increased. I had the pleasure to stay in the home of one of the visionaries, Marijana.
Let me tell you, Marijana did nothing but serve those of staying with her the entire time we were there. She often went into prayer, was very humble, deflected any type of praise to Mary and God. I find it hard to believe that any of these visionaries are making this up. They have had to deal with a lot of hardship and strife over this, and yet they continue to point towards Jesus and his mother Mary.
In Medugorje, people go to mass, as mass is said in several languages daily, confession lines can go for hours, people are converted, people find a personal relationship with Jesus and his mother Mary.
I find it hard to believe that Medjugorje is a big deception used by the devil. The idea is ridiculous. I mean, really, why would Satan convert hundreds of thousands of people, have millions of people flock there to find Jesus, the rosary, a love of God etc… If he has a hoax in mind, Satan is really losing the battle and has a horrible game-plan because already, the effects of Medugorje and the rosary and the world has been amazing.
When I got back from Medugorje I was on fire. I handed out 300 Rosaries to people. People started to say the rosary again, their relationship with Christ was elevated. Even, now the rosary has a special place in my heart that it did not have before I went.
I challenge anyone to go to Medjugorje before you pass judgement. The comments on this website about this priest or bishop condemning Medjugorje are simply one-sided propoganda. Even the late pope, John Paul II said Medjugorje was a place he wished he could visit in his lifetime, although he could never go there because it has yet to be confirmed officially by the Catholic Church.
Currently, there is no prevention of Catholics to going to Medjugorje by the Vatican. And I urge you all to take a pilgrimage there if it is God’s will. You will never forget it. I promise you. Please do not listen to some of the negative rhetoric that you have heard on this site.
God bless you all.
Mikey B: It appears you misread the debate here. No one is saying Medjugorje is the work of Satan. The word is that it is the work of charlatans.
Thanks Mikey,
I agree with you! I’ve been to Medjugorje too. I was a sceptic at first and ultimately, I went to witness for myself the character of the visionaries. In my case, it was Ivan who drew my questions and scrutiny. These people wouldn’t put up with the unending questions, lack of privacy, and hardships of this unprofitable life if it were a hoax. This whole community lives in near-poverty and these visionaries were no different. I didn’t see any swimming pools or tennis courts. The beat up VW that Viska drove was ready for the junkyard.
What boggles my mind though is that these proud, arrogant, misinformed, cynical people commenting here have the gall to form an opinion without any research. In their minds, they are apparently their own god and therefore capable of unerring judgment. As the secrets of Medjugorje unfold, and the prophesied events occur, I’d love to be with some of these folks – not so much to say “See, I told you so.” but rather, to see the birth of their humility and wonder.
@Mickey B:
Your assertions bring to the fore the point that gods are created by men, because even whilst what is considered to be the highest authority is denouncing the whole saga as a scam, you and others like you still claim that it is a divine revelation.
@Mickey B:
Whilst you claim to have a degree in theology it looks like you are missing a very important factor regarding apparitions.
It seems that all apparitions have through the ages been in Catholic countries and very rarely in others, like preaching to the converted. It is also a known fact that Catholic countries are turning away from religions. Why don’t we have an apparition in some other unreligious country, say China, having one fifth of the world population? Why not Saudi Arabia? And prove to the world the one true religion. That is further proof that all gods as preached are created by men in his own image, and woe betide he who goes against men’s dogma.
Actually, there are apparitions in many other countries. In India there are several reports of messages from Shiva (or one of the other thousand gods), delivered directly to gurus, or strange poor women in the middle of nowhere. President Ahmadinejad gets personal messages from the twelfth Imam, frighteningly enough about nuclear proliferation. Buddhist monks get separated from their bodies and float in distant galaxies. At least the Jews seem to have put their apparition days behind them, all to their credit.
The most intriguing apparition from the old testament is in 1 Samuel 28- . Here Saul goes to the witch of Endor and requests that she brings back Samuel from the dead and she complies. Samuel was brought back from the dead and he talked with Saul.
Three points to note here;
a) It was common practice to consult witches;
b) He requested that a person be brought from the dead;
c) The witch complies;
Now try to place the same case in today’s context and give some moments of brainstorming to it.
What also happened on Endor:
Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, Princess Leia, R2D2, C3PO and Chewbacca landed on the forst moon of Endor and befriended a clan of Ewoks. The ewoks, after a glance at the gold clad droid, C3PO, took him in as their God and leader, eventually assisting him and his friends defeat the evil empire… The rest is, as they say, history.
But then again, all that happened a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away.
I was appalled hearing that woman saying that during a seance uhh.. vision or whatever at Borg in-Nadur there was a host floating high in the air which landed in Angelik’s hands. Is it possible that with all those cameras there, no one took a shot of this… uhhh..,. unbelievable event? Not even Catherine herself, who’d surely be able to film everything from the best angle?
There goes our ‘niche’ tourism. We’ve got competition to our Angelik. “Holy pancakes! Virgin Mary seen on griddle”.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30508304/?GT1-39001
Dear Daphne, from what I have read in your article I understand that you do not believe in apparations at all, not even the ones that have been established by the church as real, such as Lourdes etc. Of course everyone is free to believe in what they choose to believe in. I would like to suggest something-perhaps you could try going on the hill of Borg in-Nadur to experience a wonderful sense of peace. I promise that you will not be disappointed.