Yes, racist sentiments actually do represent Maltese cultural 'values'
I am glad to see that, following the bishop of Gozo’s lead, and even though it is rather late in the day (as with the bishop) the prime minister has spoken at last against the horribly racist and inhumane comments posted on Maltese websites.
I imagine he means the sentiments expressed on timesofmalta.com’s comments-board, which are beyond shocking. And yet still I am glad they are uploaded because they allow insight into the Maltese mindset.
Except that the prime minister doesn’t think this is the Maltese mindset. He thinks people like that are the exception. Sadly, he is wrong. I know more people who are like that than people who are not like that, and these are people I know, not people whose remarks I read on the internet.
The difference is that they are more subtle when revealing how they think, either because they know it is not acceptable in other (outside Malta) societies to which they are exposed and where they might even spend part of their time, or because they don’t wish to seem ill-bred or ignorant.
Usually, the way they feel about North Africans, sub-Saharan Africans and Muslims is revealed only by default, in a chance remark here and there, and even by silence during discussions about racism, sometimes.
The strange thing is that they know, at some level, that their sentiments are unacceptable and linked to ignorance, and yet they can’t help themselves. A lifetime of cultural indoctrination against Gharab, Afrikani and Misilmin cannot be overcome by a few years of exposure, through the media or a pied-a-terre in London or the Italian countryside, to other ways of thinking.
“We worry when we see these numbers of migrants coming. But we cannot forget that every one of these people, whatever their colour, are people like me and you and deserve all the help they can get,” the prime minister said this morning, adding optimistically that the racist comments on the internet do not reflect Maltese values and hopefully never will.
I found these words of his, which follow, a little odd but the thinking behind them is positive at least:
“I am proud because our DNA does not tell us to choose between people who are fair and people who are dark, people with white skin and people with black skin. As a country, we welcome not only tourists but even those who come half-dead on a dinghy and who we save from the high seas.”
The prime minister should now move to Step Two after having spoken: acknowledging that these islands have a serious problem with ignorance, racism, fear of The Other and xenophobia. Then we should have Step Three: dealing with it.
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“A lifetime of cultural indoctrination against Arab, Afrikani and Misilmin ”
Indoctrination my arse. Yes there are people who are prejudiced against them, but there are others with some very legitimate issues about certain cultural aspects and the way they reason. Things that you yourself chide the Maltese for having and doing.
I’m not quite sure what it is that you mean by the “cultural aspects” to be honest. As far as I know, most of the illegal immigrants are Christian. The only ones that aren’t are the Somalians and the Sudanese.
Most of the immigrants that come to Malta are from Eritrea, and they are Orthodox Christians. They are persecuted for being Christians, and they have the bullet wounds to prove it.
They are probably more Christian than us, if that were possible.
What do most of the Maltese know? If someone is of a dark complection is just an “iswed”. The Arabs are all “Libjani”. “Regghu dahlu s-suwed”. No identification, but just a name which shows prejudice.
Maybe those who come from a certain background of culture is difficult to understand or to believe. But I can assure you that most of the Maltese speak like that.
For one, the cultural habit of blaming an external source for all one’s problems. Yes I’m quite aware the Eritrea has an Orthodox population as well as a Muslim one. No they are not being persecuted for being Christians either. The Muslims are here too. If we care that much about Christians, we would have helped the Assyrians.
As for being more Christian than us, that’s their funeral. I couldn’t care less given that I’m not a Christian myself.
“The Arabs are all “Libjani”. “Regghu dahlu s-suwed”. No identification, but just a name which shows prejudice.”
No it shows ignorance, not necessarily prejudice. We have a very parochial culture so what do you expect? It is just like when people refer to Israel as the ‘Lhud’.. We are not alone in doing it.
Oh and trust me, one tends to find the same general problems throughout the Arab speaking world too, given that they were all thought to reason the same way.
http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/news/junior-minister-says-italy-might-drop-energy-cable-to-sicily-over-migrants-row
http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/news/national/man-found-dead-floating-in-st-george%E2%80%99s-bay
MaltaToday doesn’t seem to know that St George’s Bay is in St Julian’s.
There is another St. George’s Bay in Birzebbuga.
Malta Today said “St George’s Bay, Sliema”. There is no such place.
Good point, Red nose.
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20110410/local/go-back-to-africa-policeman-tells-african-jesuits
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20110409/local/europe-cannot-shirk-immigration-responsibility-berlusconi
I can assure you the same racist sentiments are prevalent through out the western world. It’s just that it has become politically incorrect to express those sentiments, so people tend to either keep them to themselves or only air them when they are in company who hold similar sentiments. It’s sad, but true.
Malta and other European countries are suffering a large influx of illegal immigration and cannot cope with this large wave.
Many countries are adopting anti-immigration policies and politicians are stating that multiculturalism has failed. Italy and France are working to stop immigration – http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13029165
Does all this imply racism?
No, it implies common sense which is not very common in Malta.
To some extent, yes. The focus there is on people who arrive from north Africa. Next to nothing is ever said about people from Eastern European states, many of whom are bought and sold several times over.
“Next to nothing is ever said about people from Eastern European states, many of whom are bought and sold several times over.”
Aaaah, but that is most probably because they are usually women, used over and over by men – and mainly Maltese ones at that.
There are as many Maltese born-and-bred prostitutes as there are “Eastern” Europeans, if that’s what you mean.
We didn’t wait long before the inevitable “stripperrrrssss Russi” argument dropped in. Stop mixing apples and oranges. Besides, I’ve already given the results of my field research on the subject: most foreign strippers and a good number of foreign prostitutes are EU citizens, and well within their rights to be in Malta.
May I also remind some uppity ladies here that Maltese strip clubs (sorry, “gentlemen’s clubs”) also feature male strippers, and there’s a fair share of male prostitutes too. So it’s not just the evil irgiel Maltin who are doing the using over and over. Maltese women do it too.
I’m not uppity at all. My point here was that nobody seems to object to the presence in Malta of foreign white females, simply because they are foreign, white and female.
The usual arguments of different morals, religion (ha!) and the like are quite conveniently forgotten when it comes to basics.
Oh but many do object. And prominent opinion-makers too. Vide that clown Jean-Paul Mifsud (aka ‘Franco. Is-secret agent hej) and ‘it-tim ta’ Xarabank’ mounting a sting operation against a poor innocent Ukrainian prostitute, and stalking her all the way to the airport.
Their frisson of pleasure in showing their anti-racist third-worldism by persecuting blonde, blue-eyed Slavic illegal immigrants was palpable.
You may not be uppity, but the generalisation “most Russian girls are prostitutes” is equally as disgusting as “most blacks are rapists”. And it’s been ingrained into the Maltese brain.
Was Jean-Paul Mifsud the guy who “scooped” Massimo Giletti?
He’s the Che Guevara wannabe with the silly hat, who pretends to be a Marxist revolutionary while living like the petit bourgeois that he is.
Oh and to your “step 3, dealing with it” How do you deal with it? Do you suppress it, and push it underground? That kind of works, but it’s not much progress on what we have now.
No, I think anybody over the age of 10 who already thinks that way is a lost cause. Yes, they can be taught to ‘pretend’ to not be racist, but you won’t change them.
You need to start working on the next generation from primary schools. Sadly these children will still need to go home and hear their parents rant and rave against anyone who is not like them.
The funny thing is seeing Benghazi on Al Jazeera, it could easily be mistaken for Oormi. They’re closer to us than we think!
Back to the Libyan conflict.
African leaders are seeking to mediate – http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13029165
Unlike the PM, Joseph Muscat has not heeded Bishop Grech’s words.
The Times website has cleaned up his speech to make it less offensive but Maltatoday has, for once, exposed him in all his callousness.
He praised Italy for not accepting the recently-rescued migrants and, what’s more, thinks Malta should do likewise or, as he puts it: “”take a similar strong stand”.
http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/news/labour-leader-thinks-lampedusa-blockade-was-%E2%80%98right-decision%E2%80%99-by-italy
We are not alone in this racist/xenophobic mess.
The Germans and the Belgians are not much better than us.
@Min Weber
Could you explain why Germans and Belgians are more xenophobic than, let’s say, the French, the Dutch, the Austrians, the Swiss, the Hungarians or Italians?
I know of one German fraulein who actually thinks that some bus drivers are ”amusing”!. Now THAT is definitely NOT xenophobic.
@Zorro
Most tourists find Maltese bus drivers quirky and therefore amusing.
Although I understand that the Maltese just find them brazen.
It’s like in Bavaria, where I live: Tourists usually love the Bavarians and their obdurate and mulish behaviour.
I can’t stand it!
I am not a racist.
I am colour prejudiced.
Once I get to know them, I don’t see colour anymore.
I see either someone I like or dislike.
But I am naturally, initially, by instinct, prejudiced against darkies.
I hate those people who start their anti-immigration argument with “JIEN MINNHIEX RAZZIST IMMA…….”
Since I have moved to Italy my respect towards the immigrants who look for a better future has increased plenty.
In Rome you can see Africans (Arabs included) and Asians making all efforts possible to earn a living.
Unfortunately there is the Rom ethnicity or the so called gypsies coming from Albania and Romania. In generally speaking it is in their culture to beg for charity or steal. But not to work. They are also known for kidnapping children. I can say that most of the population dislike these people.
Romanians are always given a mention on the Italian news because they are highly involved in criminality. In rapes, robberies, pickpocketing a Romanian is almost always involved.
What I mean is that nowadays I consider myself as a racist. I cannot stand the presence of a gypsy or the Romanians in general. I can assure you that when a gypsy approaches a playing area, everybody leaves, and the place is empty in a minute.
I don’t want to generalise. There are also the serious Romanians who are trying to do their utmost to improve thier standard of living and the bad reputations. For example a popular career with the Romanians is the health carer (badante in Italian). They assist the elderly in the privacy of their home.
But unfortunately I am obliged to be a racist.
.
No, you are not obliged to be a racist.
No one is obliged to be racist and I agree with Ms Corinne Vella.
I don’t accept the gypsies not because of their complexion or features, neither because of the bad smells they leave around from their dirty bodies and clothes or the way they wear and live. The reason is the behaviour. Most of them are simply dangerous. Who would want danger around?
Yes the majority of Maltese are racists. There is even an expression “mela jien iswed?” used when someone is ignored or unlucky.
However please note that the British and especially the Italians also have their fair share of racists.
I think that humans are naturally predisposed to treat differently, people who are not substantially similar to them. In a classroom, when someone has big ears or is fat, the other children pick on him. The same happens when they see someone with a different skin colour. Obviously, with education we diminish this as much as possible but I do think that it cannot be eliminated completely because it is an instinct.
May I also point out that classism is another form of racism, but again, it can be seen in every country in the world so I think that humans are predisposed to it.
Children should be taught about diversity from the early stages of life.
The Italians of North Italy say that South of Florence the people are Africans!
The best book I have read on Il Merridione and the Risorgimento is I Terroni by Pino Aprile.
“mela jien iswed?”
That has to do with the history of slavery, rather than genuine prejudice. The expression has so far not been forgotten, even though the world has changed. It is just like when an atheist exclaims ‘god knows’..
“May I also point out that classism is another form of racism, but again, it can be seen in every country in the world so I think that humans are predisposed to it.”
May I point out how stupid that argument is? How can one be racially prejudiced against people from the same ethnic background? I bet you don’t even know what ‘race’ is yourself and still adhere to the old incorrect definition.
“How can one be racially prejudiced against people from the same ethnic background”
Seriously? How about the people of Milan’s prejudice towards the people of Naples? Aren’t they from the same ethnic group?
“Seriously? How about the people of Milan’s prejudice towards the people of Naples? Aren’t they from the same ethnic group?”
No not really. Being Italian is a culture. The Italian peninsula was always divided, diverse and cosmopolitan
Yes, racism exists everywhere. It’s no less ugly for existing in Malta too.
http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/112508/gadhafi-ly-web-suffix-libya-wsj
I just cannot fathom where DNA comes into the grand scheme of things in this speech. On another note, all mankind’s ancestry migrated from Africa many eons ago.
It is most unfortunate Daphne that many people like you with the ability to forsee disaster, tend to be soft in your approach against migration.
Racism and xenophobia are not traits common in Maltese society but fear of Islamic expansion is very tangible and we all know that Islamic migration creates ethnic societies which have created havoc and fundamentalism which eventually led to the shariah laws being intridoduced in countries which were predominantly Christian like most of Western Europe.
What happened in ex-Yugoslavia two decased ago was no coincidence. Christians and Moslems cannot co-exist. It is a radical clash of cultures and when Muslim populations grow within Western communities, the results are disastrous.
[Daphne – This is such a common, widespread error, Lorna. It is not Christians and Muslims who cannot coexist in the same society, but those who are ill-bred, ill-educated and ignorant and those who are not. And this regardless of religion and ethnic identity. I have plenty in common – and certainly the basis for friendship – with a North African Muslim from a similar socio-educational background to mine, but nothing in common with, and so no basis for friendship, somebody born and raised on a Cottonera housing estate, who supports Joseph Muscat and thinks that the world owes him a living – despite our shared nationality and ‘religion’.
You make the mistake of forgetting that there are cultures within cultures, societies within societies, and that a person from the Maltese working-class has much more in common, enough to base a marriage on sometimes, with somebody from the British working-class than he or she does with somebody raised in a very different way in Malta itself.
The misconceptions about ‘Muslims’ in Europe come the fact that it is generally only the poor people who emigrate in large numbers, and poor people tend to be uneducated and bigoted. So Europe has been exposed to vast numbers of ignorant and bigoted Muslims and has made the equation Muslim = ignorant and bigoted. But imagine if the sort of people who were listening to Joseph Muscat at the Maltese Center in Astoria, NY were to be taken as representative of all Maltese people, if sufficient hundreds of thousands of them were to ‘invade’ Europe and North America. We have an example of this, in a way, from a generation ago, when the Maltese criminals and whoremongers of Soho were taken by the English to be representative of all Maltese.]
Protecting one’s culture is nationalism, not fascism and is in no way to be related to the hard-right.
[Daphne – They are all interlinked. Study history and the present. Nationalism, ‘protecting one’s culture, fascism and the hard right all come from the same political kitchen.]
The fear is that unbridled growth of Islamic populations in Europe will invariably lead to a stronger voice of the National Front parties which will encourage the average voter to vote for a firm politician rather than the soft liberal politicians who crusade for human rights and allow Islam to worm itself into our continent.
[Daphne – I understand your fear of another religion taking over. Having lived in a country hamstrung by Roman Catholicism, one wouldn’t want to experience the same thing again.]
I disagree with racism, because the Maltese would be more tolerant with African Christians running away from Islamic persecution as opposed to African Muslims floating their way into the EU while we watch helpless. It is more a fear of creed that a fear of race!
[Daphne – I dislike all forms of religious dominance, and that includes the situation in Malta. So while I share your mistrust, it is not for the same reasons and I think you are being myopic if you can’t see that, to a non-Catholic outsider, the situation in Malta is equally fearsome. It doesn’t feel that way to you because it is what you were brought up in and what you are accustomed to.]
You’re assuming that no Christians from Africa make their way to Malta. The Maltese are NOT more tolerant of Christians from Africa. You only have to look at the vicious reaction towards, say, the Eritrean community to know that.
Non-Catholic outsider: that’s me.
I am not debating the fact that we have a huge degenerate element in our midst and that is something we have to live with unfortunately.
We are still burdened with a huge chunk of population who do not have an opinion and who flock to vote in evert election making us the smallest country with the largest voting population.
We have people who flock for Joseph and those who flock for Lawrence which in essence is undistinguishable. People with half a brain will realize that our politicians are expired and we have no choice whom to vote for.
As for my widespread error I beg to differ. Muslims are an intolerant culture and the larger they grow in numbers, the harsher their demands.
[Daphne – ALL religions are intolerant, Lorna. That is their nature. Roman Catholicism is one of the most intolerant of all, rivalling Islam. It was only held in check after the evolution in secular thinking that swept Europe in 300-200 years ago. Those changes did not change Roman Catholicism, but held it in check and kept it in its proper place. Southern Europe was late to the game. Religion is controlled only by democracy and the separate of church and state. If it were for Roman Catholicism there would be no such separation, so don’t run about thinking that RC is superior to Islam in this respect. It isn’t. Separation of church and state was foisted on RC and it fought it all the way. See now, with the divorce issue in Malta.]
France has just banned the Islamic veil which is a fundamental insult to western cultures and these people are already in uproar. If you think they would tolerate our dress code in Saudi, or Bahrain or Iran simply because you have a moderate North African friend who can understand you, does not hold water.
[Daphne – I have several North African friends, not one. And I notice that when people who think as you do wish to draw comparisons, they always cite Saudi Arabia, never Turkey or Tunisia or for that matter, Indonesia, where women wear very little.]
We are regarded as infidels and they despise our way of life. They despise the fact that women have rights, and have no respect for non-Muslim values. Allowing them in will destroy western culture (inspite of its numerous flaws) as we know it!
[Daphne – They, they, they, they! You might find this odd, but the people I consider They actually share a passport and nationality with me. A big exercise in They, for example, would be a brave sortie to the Trade Fair on a hot July night when it was held in Naxxar. The place would be teeming and boiling with Theys. Alien species. My friend who had a stall at the Mnarja festival in Buskett last year said that he was astonished to discover throngs of an even more extreme form of They, trolls in a very appropriate woodland setting. They may be ‘white’ (ahem, about as white as I am), Roman Catholic and Maltese, but they majtezwel be from Mars for all I have in common with them and their ‘culture’. And they would say the same about me. In fact, you only have to read the pro-Labour press and pro-Labour websites to see just how alien They think people like me are – because they have no direct experience of Us and so think I am a freak rather than one of many who keep themselves locked away from Theys and They venues.]
Your comparison to the Marmalja and friendly Moslems is justified.
[Daphne – I made no such comparison, and I would never say ‘friendly Moslems’ or ‘marmalja’. What is a ‘friendly Moslem’, anyway?]
After all, we do have Arabic roots. What irks me most is that when the Second World War broke out in Europe, persecuted Europeans who were under the Nazi axe did not flee to populate Africa as they are doing. They endured. After all what is happening in Africa now is identical to what happend to Europe during the two world wars.
[Daphne – I’m sorry if this sounds rude, but I find your thought processes, lack of general knowledge, and interpretation of history quite disturbing.]
It is the evolutionary process of every continent. Nothwitstanding the fact that the Europeans were the civilized continent, they still managed to extinguish over a 100 million people in total during the two great wars. Europe withstood as will Africa once this process recedes.
I think that Lorna has a basic lack if faith in human nature and the effects of education. In fact, if there is one weapon that will rid the world, once and for all, of all forms of terrorism, religious fundmentalism, genocide and other forms of wanton violence, is the greatly feared education of the people.
This is what the Taliban feared, it is what tyrants and despots fear, it is what the Nazi brown shirts and the Communists bolsheviks feared. Why even the RC Church held education to be the sole preserve of the clergy and for a long period of its history.
Spot, if you will, the difference between the revolution in Egypt and neighbouring Libya. Why do you think, Lorna, that the unfolding and the outcomes are so drastically different – same religion, same language, same region. One thing however is fundamentally different. Despite being quite poor, the average Egyptian is very educated and sophisticated compared to his Libyan neighbour. This goes for the populace, as well as for the political leaders.
Have a look at what is going on in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Observe the gains that have been made in just a few years thanks to the drive for education there and the empowerment of women in society. Witness, if you will, the efforts by those who would have religious domination, in doing their utmost in removing those individuals or institutions that seek to improve conditions and education for the poor.
We don’t even have to look that far after all. Witness what has happened here in Malta, when education was made accessable to all. We have a greater proportion of the Maltese who have attained tertairy education, and the numbers are growing every year.
This, in turn, for example, has made us a less litigious society. I know this for a fact because I’m a lawyer. I know exactely what sort and how many cases are being filed before the Civil courts nowadays.
There is no comparison with what used to happen just ten or fifteen years ago. Admittedly it is not only education that stops people from going to Court, but it certainly plays an important part.
Education breeds tolerance in and of itself.
@Etienne. ” I think that Lorna has a basic lack if faith in human nature and the effects of education.”
How wrong you are. I have met doctors and engineers who graduated from good universities and actually deny that evolution took place because it contradicts their religion.
“Despite being quite poor, the average Egyptian is very educated and sophisticated compared to his Libyan neighbour. ”
Utter rubbish, the middle class youth of Cairo and Alexandria who were demonstrating in Tahrir square might be but the rest of the population lives in rural areas and is quite backward too. Do you know how common FGM is in Egypt?
Etienne Calleja: And I thought it was the increase in court and legal fees which did away with petty litigation.
“Europe come the fact that it is generally only the poor people who emigrate in large numbers, and poor people tend to be uneducated and bigoted. So Europe has been exposed to vast numbers of ignorant and bigoted Muslims and has made the equation Muslim ”
Hardly, what we are facing is an ideological problem. Quite a number of suicide bombers and would be suicide bombers were well educated and came from a comfortable background.
[Daphne – Yes, and they come from the same psychological – not religious – class of person who joined the Brigate Rosse in Italy in the 1970s and the Bader Meinhof in Germany. Those, too, came from the same kind of background you describe. Religion has NOTHING to do with it. The unhappy, disenfranchised, disillusioned and inherently violent and aggressive ‘privileged’ person will find a way to violence that depends on his own set of circumstances. You’re in your early 20s, I believe? At least I remember you saying so. Well, I grew up in the age of terrorism – the 1970s and 1980s – so I can’t help but put Islamic suicide bombers into the context of the IRA, the Bader Meinhof, the Brigate Rosse, and the rest of them. It’s sociopathy that is the common factor here. Those who can’t get hold of Semtex or join a terrorist group go to a school or shopping centre and gun people down at random. Same difference.]
The funding of other extremists by the Saudis and the Tehran regime also make matters worse. When it comes to specific groups of people, (such as many of those from culturally Arab countries) some of their cultural aspects and way of thinking also prevent them from being open minded.
“never Turkey or Tunisia or for that matter, Indonesia, where women wear very little”
All thanks to Kemal Ataturk and Habib Bourguiba, who were both autocratic secularists. Now several factions have set about to reverse the changes brought by their reforms. Indonesia is also no secular paradise either and it’s getting worse.
“Religion has NOTHING to do with it. ”
Of course it does. Religion is an ideology itself and the basis of culture. It presents itself as the solution to all problems. Some are more ideological and political than others. Many adherents may be far more concerned with living their lives and getting on with those around them, but that does not change the nature of the religion itself or make it better.
[Daphne – No, you have to think beyond that. Blaming it on religion is facile. The point I made is that sociopathic young people will find an outlet for their rage, and sometimes it happens to be religion, sometimes not. In the case of Islamic suicide bombers it was religion. In the case of the IRA it was an end to British rule. Similarly with the ETA and Spain. The Brigate Rosse, the Bader Meinhof – all were made up of sociopaths with the ‘Islamic suicide bomber’ mentality. At a minor level, you have those individuals who go onto campus with a machine-gun and begin shooting. THAT is the problem: the inherent sociopathy of these psychological disturbed individuals. If it’s not Islam used as an excuse, it will be something else. People don’t kill because of religion or politics. They kill because they want to do so. Terrorist organisations are not going to recruit people like me or you. They will recruit sociopaths or the miserably disturbed. Don’t ever make the mistake of describing a suicide bomber as ‘a normal person’ because he happens to be, say, an engineer. By definition, anybody prepared to do that is not normal. Don’t blame religion – any religion – beyond saying that it gives disturbed people an outlet for their mental imbalances. But then so do other things.]
* religion is an integral component of many cultures… Far more accurate.
This is really the reaction of a region and a mindset that has remained fossilised in a certain time period to globalisation, a changing world and new ideas.
“Blaming it on religion is facile. The point I made is that sociopathic young people will find an outlet for their rage, and sometimes it happens to be religion, sometimes not. In the case of Islamic suicide bombers it was religion. In the case of the IRA it was an end to British rule. ”
I didn’t blame it all on religion, but when you are taught from childhood about the glories of martyrdom, about how god and his ‘deen’ are the most precious thing in your life and you spend long hours reading about how he will punish unbelievers it doesn’t help.
[Daphne – Maltese children are indoctrinated in exactly the same way. But perhaps you don’t know that. I agree with you that it is damaging, and that it shapes young minds in a negative way. But the end result is generally bigotry, and the inability to think clearly and to question things. It is not to blow themselves up.]
It is inevitable that some would take it further than that. It’s just like saying that the antics of the Roman Catholic Church did not help foster virulent antisemitism in Europe.
[Daphne – Anti-Semitism is a lot more complicated than that.]
I could bet that the thugs of the IRA would not have been prepared to hijack a plane and die for the cause as willingly as the youth inspired by Islamism did.
[Daphne – Does that make them better or worse? I think it makes them worse: prepared to kill others but not prepared to die with them. Again, you’re not looking at religion there, but at social culture: the ego versus the group.]
“If it’s not Islam used as an excuse, it will be something else. People don’t kill because of religion or politics. They kill because they want to do so. ”
Are you saying that it is impossible for normal people to become radicalised?
[Daphne – Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. Mentally and psychologically healthy people by definition cannot be radicalised, because they are ‘normal’. That means no pathologies and no dysfunctional personality, no breeding ground for radicalism, religious fixations and the rest (and I’m not talking only about Islam or religion in general here – the Italian terrorists’ ‘religion’ was communism). For a ‘normal’ person to behave abnormally, he or she would first have to undergo some traumatic life event that leads to psychological collapse – in other words, become ‘not normal’.
You are making the fundamental error of thinking – even without realising it – that Arab/Muslims are biologically different to ‘us’. ‘We’ cannot be persuaded to blow ourselves up, but ‘they’ can. Wrong. A stable Arab Muslim man of 23 can no more be persuaded to blow himself up than you can, with or without religion.
If Europe were to be subjected to the particular stresses that the ‘Arab world’ has been going through for the last few years, we would see the re-emergence of widespread terrorism by Europeans. I say ‘re-emergence’ and not ’emergence’ because those of us who lived through the 1970s and early 1980s know only too well what life dominated by newspaper headlines about the IRA, ETA, Bader Meinhof and Brigate Rosse was like.
One of my clearest memories – I was 13 at the time, and in London with my parents – is of every newspaper stand plastered with a shocking photograph of the corpse of ex Italian premier Aldo Moro in an open car-boot. He had been kidnapped and murdered by the Brigate Rosse.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/march/16/newsid_4232000/4232691.stm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Aldo_Moro
Today’s ‘terrorism’ – with the salient exception of the Twin Towers – is chickenfeed compared to the 1970s. Believe me when I say that. But you don’t have to believe me – it’s all there in the newspapers of the day.]
People do kill because they want to do so, but religion and politics make it much easier too, for the simple reason that they give the killer the impression that he is on the right side and doing it for a just cause. When you believe that someone is against god or your political cause it becomes much easier to overcome any inhibitions about taking his/her life as you are doing it for a just cause.
[Daphne – You don’t need religion for a just cause. See my reference to the Brigate Rosse. Look at the IRA. The most murderous sociopaths in history – Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin and Mao Tse Tung – could hardly be described as motivated by religion.]
“Maltese children are indoctrinated in exactly the same way. But perhaps you don’t know that. ”
Oh really? I went to a Catholic school where I also received religious education, but no one ever taught me that non Catholics are going to burn in hell, as my Egyptian friend was taught about her Coptic class mates, for one. I wasn’t constantly reminded that the Jews are the slayers of prophets and deceivers either.
[Daphne – That’s because you’re 23. I am 46, and that’s exactly what my generation was taught: those very same words. The nice ones might have gone to ‘Limbo’, the others went to hell. This is because the teachers – and the faith itself – didn’t have an answer to the question of what happened to those who were not Catholic, if you had to be a good Catholic to get into heaven. It marked the beginning of my difference of opinion with the Catholic Church, aged around nine. Catholics and Muslims both think that The Other is going to burn in hell. You should know that.]
“It is not to blow themselves up”
They are not taught to blow themselves up, but to put the creed above everything else. That kind of thinking makes it easier for the more motivated to blow themselves up. Others do other things.
[Daphne – All believers, whatever the religion, are taught to put their religion first. All of them. Including Roman Catholics in Malta. Whether you accept the teaching or not is up to you, your need for faith and your level of intelligence.]
“Daphne – Does that make them better or worse? I think it makes them worse: prepared to kill others but not prepared to die with them. Again, you’re not looking at religion there, but at social culture: the ego versus the group”
Well, any negotiator would disagree with you. One may at least compromise and save lives with those who do not want to die. These people simply wish to be martyrs and wage war.
[Daphne – The ones who die are not the ones who will be negotiating. They are the tools. Again, you should know that.]
“The Italian terrorists’ ‘religion’ was communism”
Thank you, I’ve been saying that religion is an ideology. I do not see much difference other than the fact that religion tends to have a god and secular ideologies don’t
“You are making the fundamental error of thinking – even without realising it – that Arab/Muslims are biologically different to ‘us’.”
Oh please, there is no such thing as a biological Arab or Muslim. No I am not, had I been brought up in similar circumstances I would have been more likely to do the same thing myself.
“If Europe were to be subjected to the particular stresses that the ‘Arab world’ has been going through for the last few years, we would see the re-emergence of widespread terrorism by Europeans. ”
Such as killing members of particular national groups in far way countries like Argentina, as what Hezb’allah did in 1994? Or murdering old people in their homes to liberate a country?
“is chickenfeed compared to the 1970s. ”
You must take into account that the likes of the IRA were far better organised and trained than Al Qaeda, which is really an umbrella of cells.
“Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin and Mao Tse Tung – could hardly be described as motivated by religion.”
They most certainly were. Instead of the conventional religions they were motivated by their ideologies, which they adhered to with religious conviction. They were all ideologues. Do you understand my point now?
@Lorna Saliba
Quote:”What happened in ex-Yugoslavia two decased ago was no coincidence. Christians and Moslems cannot co-exist. It is a radical clash of cultures and when Muslim populations grow within Western communities, the results are disastrous. ”
I fear it’s not that simple: http://www.bukisa.com/articles/281476_causes-of-civil-war-in-yugoslavia
(and that’s just a short synopsis)
@Andrea, quite. Many people fail to comprehend that in the Balkans, religion was simply part of the national identity and an excuse to fight. Most people there couldn’t care less about it in real life, especially the Albanians. Nationalism is the real religion over there.
You should have written this tomorrow Daph… especially after Ġowżef’s comments today!
You are dreaming in Technicolor Daphne.
Try living in central Detroit or at Jane and Finch in Toronto to experience how wonderful these races and cultures are.
You have swallowed the Jesuit chaos creating program hook line and sinker. Tell your kids and grandkids to have fun avoiding the future no go zones in Malta.
Get real !
[Daphne – Two of my ‘kids’ live in the world’s most culturally diverse metropolis, and after the stale going-nowhere homogeneity of Malta, they love it. Perhaps that’s because I brought them up, and not you. The ‘kids’ of parents who think as you do have serious problems adapting. It’s a tragedy.]
I am currently living in a predominantly white neighbourhood in the east of London, Debden. There are very few people who are not white. And yet it is still a rough area, there are still gangs around and walking around the place at night is still not a great idea.
In fact the white men and women are the ones living on the estates and causing trouble, while the few people who are not white are the ones working in the shops and constantly fighting off the yobs who steal and terrorise the neighbourhood.
As Daphne pointed out, it’s not race but social upbringing that couses these problems.
It isn’t even social upbringing but lack of a common objective. Racial barriers seem to disappear in tightly-knit teams with a common aim, be it in sports, the military, the workplace, you name it.
On the other hand, if we send out the message that the point of life is faffing about and having fun, people will obviously want to have fun with their own kind, with people sharing their tastes and interests.
Do I make sense? Perhaps a practical example. I work in a multicoloured, multicultural workplace. But the work demands that we keep culture and colour out of it, so everyone just keeps his head down, and we more or less get along with each other.
But once I step out of the workplace, I find myself in a neighbourhood where whites are a minority. If I want to have a chat with someone or join a club, I wouldn’t join the Local Inner City Hip-Hop Club, because I’d feel out of place. So we’re back to de facto racial segregation.
Is this wrong? I don’t know.
Is it ageist to say you don’t want to hang around Paceville?
You’d feel out of place if the local inner city hip-hop place were white (I’m assuming that you meant it’s not).
So you’ve found gainful employment. Congratulations.
Blimey, I didn’t know you followed my posts so assiduously (hmm, first time I used that word).
But yes, I feel out of place in most places, since I’m neither tall, blonde and handsome like Northern Europeans, nor tall dark and handsome like Latinos, nor black, tall and oozing confidence like blacks, nor short brown handsome and rich like Asians, nor brownish and cocky like North Africans. That’s probably the root of most of our troubles as a people. We’re short-arsed dagos but we don’t have that Latin thing going on. Dagos with Jewish noses. And short dagos aren’t popular. Hell, short anything isn’t. Except South-East Asians and Japanese. But that’s a one billion strong team.
Would I feel out of place if hip-hop were a predominantly white art form? Not really. By way of example, I hate James Blunt (mostly because he’s popular with chicks, and sings in falsetto). But if I went to a James Blunt concert I wouldn’t stick out like a sore bollock. I’ve played rugby for a while. Do you know how many black or non-white players I met on and off the pitch? Just one (in Malta, of all places). On the other hand, round our parts, football is by far a black and North African sport.
I’ve lost thread of my own argument here. Oh yes. Daphne believes that the determining factor is culture, not genetics. And by god she’s right. But you’d be hard pressed to untangle the two a mere fifty years after the start of globalisation.
And La Redoute, if you want to offer me a job, you can always shoot me an email on my website. I could even model for your catalogue. Say in the sports section (do you have one?)
No.
So basically it’s just lingerie and waifs in translucent summer dresses, right? Perhaps you need a talent scout for future supermodels. Look no further.
A letter written by a certain Edric Micallef Figallo (Maltese) to La Stampa
http://www.ilgiornale.it/esteri/immigrati_lettore_maltese_scrive_giornaleit__avete_ragione_sarkozy_ma_qui_e_pure_peggio/cronaca-immigrazione-lettera-malta-sbarchi-respingimenti/10-04-2011/articolo-id=516557-page=0-comments=1
He’s a latter day fan of Mussolini and an habitue’ of online racist forums.
Definitely racist…
Just read Muscat’s speech today…..an example of cheap populism.
Spot on. I think it is really time to look the ugly truth in its face. Racism and xenophobia are part of the Maltese culture. I hope something is done about it (education wise) before anything really ugly happens.
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20110410/local/go-back-to-africa-policeman-tells-african-jesuits
The report is shocking. But most of the comments below the article are really disgusting.
http://www.maltastar.com/pages/r1/ms10dart.asp?a=14953
(Police investigating murder after Marsa resident found dead in St George’s Bay)
I am glad that this subject has been brought up. I am not sure how I should express myself vis a vis the wave of immigration into Europe by Africans.
On the one hand, I feel sorry and I try to give my tuppence worth of help when it comes to individuals. I mean I do my little bit when I see some individual whom I can help with a little money or so.
On the other hand, when I see and remember that there are thousands upon thousands of Africans who want to settle in Europe, I cannot help but not harbour worrisome thoughts. For instance, I say to myself, that it took Europe hundreds of years to achieve a certain level of civilization (including that of the rule and respect of law).
Then, I ask, do these newcomers have the same values? Do they recognise allegiance to the rule of law and to the state or do they have their allegiance entrenched towards their extended families/tribes?
One reads of Pakistanis murdering their daughters in Britain for shaming the family, and one wonders. Europe also respects diversity and fundamental freedoms (to worship and media freedom come to mind).
I fear that certain freedoms are not yet entrenched into the minds of these newcomers. My thoughts so far have not touched upon the issues of demographics and population density. My view is that Europe is already densely populated, and while the European trend is for populations to grow smaller, the new influx with multiple births per woman will increase the population density in Europe which would leave negative repercussions on our limited urban and natural environments.
These are my major concerns when it comes to uncontrolled immigration into Europe.
[Daphne – The answer to your valid concerns is quite simply to look around you in your own country, where very few Maltese understand the rule of law, and still we get by. There has to be strong enforcement, that’s all. Whenever I have moments of doubt, as you do, I remind myself that if I can live with the tens of thousands of the sorts of people who go to Labour mass meetings and who phone in to radio stations, the sort of people who stampede at Lidl for a cheap barbecue, then I can pretty much live with anyone. Harsh, but true.]
Not that anyone in their right mind would question Daphne’s claim but have a look at the comments section to a story in The Sunday Times about the two African priests who were “jokingly” told to go back to Africa by a police officer in Msida. Only three people bothered to comment of which one tried to make a lame excuse to justify the police officer’s action. I wonder if the police commissioner will even bother to find out who the officer was.
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20110411/local/south-african-president-in-malta-stopover
Daphne,
hu veru u mhux meta inti tghid inti li l-kundanna tar-razzismu minn naha tal-knisja ma saritx. Ghandek ragun tghid li l-isqfijiet tkellmu tard. Imma mhux haddiheor anke qassisin. Ha naghmillek cut & paste ta silta qasira minn artiklu li deher fil-Lehen is-Sewwa gimghat ilu fil-bidu tal-krizi libjana fejn artikolista direttament staqsa kemm lesti nilqghuhom lir-refugjati. Kien qal hekk:
X’se jiġri? U jekk nibdew naraw mases kbar ta’ nies jemigraw lejn l-Ewropa aħna lesti nilqgħuhom? Diġà marru eluf ta’ Tuneżini lejn Lampedusa. Issa la tikkrolla l-Libja wkoll tgħid aħna f’Malta kif se niġu affettwati? Żgur li f’Malta se jkun hawn min japprofitta ruħu minn sentimenti razzisti ta’ nazzjonalismu b’togħma anti-Islamika u jaħtaf l-okkażjoni. “Kont barrani u lqatjuni” qalina s-Sinjur Alla Sidna Ġesù Kristu. Dan se jkun eżami importanti għalina l-Maltin biex naraw kemm l-għeruq tagħna nsara humiex b’saħħithom jew le.
Fittixt u sibt li dan l-artiklu inkiteb fil-Lehen is-Sewwa fil-harga tal-5 ta’ Marzu 2011 meta s-sitwazzjoni fil-Libja kienet ghada mhux serja daqs kemm hi issa u meta l-krizi tal-immigrazzjoni kienet ghada l-boghod.
L-artiklu inghata prominenza ghax kien back-page u fih kien hemm miktub car u tond li l-mexxejja politici jridu jifhmu li l-vera paci tigi meta jkun hemm gustizzja mal-popli Gharab. Qal ukoll inutli f’darek tpacpac dwar drittijiet tal-bniedem u mbaghad fil-politika barranija tixxierek mad-dittaturi ghax hekk jaqbel lilek.
Hasra li dal-qassis joqghod jinhela fuq il-Lehen is-Sewwa li jaqrawha biss erba bigotti tal-Muzew u tal-Azzjoni Kattolika.
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20110411/local/born-free-quest-for-freedom
Very good article. Let’s see how long it takes for the racist comments to start flooding in.
U xi tghiduli ghal meta xi hadd jizzewweg ma xi hadd ta’ kulur?
Tant ahjar halli l-genetic pool tikber. Per ezempju jien dark blonde b’ghajnejja zoroq. Dunque is-suwed veru inhobbhom !
Years ago, a Maltese couple adopted an African child. He grew up, went to school, speaks perfect Maltese, he has now grown up and he is a professional. I met him the other day and he tells me that he is discriminated and looked upon as a “stranger” – pity – yes I think we are racist.
[Daphne – I know exactly who you mean. He is the same age as my eldest son, and I remember him being pushed around in a pram by a series of excitable young girls who went to the Ursuline creche to take him out. He was probably the first black baby they had ever seen and he was like a doll to them. He got loads of attention. I was really pleased when he was adopted. I never saw him again for 20 years, when he walked into a coffee shop with fellow students and I thought, ‘This must be…’. As you say, he never knew anything but Malta, was raised in a typical Sliema family, is out-and-out Maltese, and yet he meets with prejudice.]
When I was at university in the 1960s, there was a medical student from Ghana and he told me that the first Maltese word he learned was ISWED as every time he passed through Kingsway he heard people mumbling the word.
What a pity. Such a pleasing person – well mannered, educated and still….. we are definitely racist.
More brooding from the usual self flagellators. Their Catholic upbringing really comes out at times. There were some adopted children from Zimbabwe too in my village. I grew up with two of them and I don’t recall them being marginalised at all. On the contrary, they were quite popular and good at sports. I’m still friends with them.
Don’t waffle about racists when you generalise about your own as much they generalise about people from other backgrounds.
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20110411/local/libyan-group-holds-demonstration-in-valletta
Just wait for the comments on timesofmalta.com to go back to Benghazi; wonder how Malta’s finest will react !
Another suggestion for a ceasefire. How can there be a ceasefire?
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20110411/local/no-ceasefire-without-gaddafi-pullback-rebels
Gonzi, take heed:
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20110411/local/libyan-group-holds-demonstration-in-valletta
Some years ago I wanted to buy a black doll for my daughter. I thought that could be an introduction to diversity.
I hunted around the toy shops in Rome without success and believe it or not most of the sales assistants were so surprised at my request. “Litteralment jiccassaw”.
“Jigifieri l-injuranza u r-razzismu mhux Malta biss qeghdin”.
racist changes colour
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cC_rYYnD05s