London and the anti-EU bid
In summary, for those who haven’t been following the matter, a group of ‘rebel’ Tory MPs brought forward a motion to force the coalition LibDem-Tory government into holding a referendum on whether Britain should stay in the European Union or pull out.
There is, and has been from the beginning, a strong anti-EU element in the Conservative Party. Pro-Europeanism is associated with left-of-centre or liberal parties while anti-Europeanism tends to be linked with conservative parties, hence the situation in Malta.
The motion was heavily defeated through the combined forces of the opposition (Labour) party, the LibDems and all the other Conservative MPs who were not part of the rebel bid.
The Press Association reports:
CAMERON SHAKEN BY TORY VOTE REVOLT
David Cameron suffered an assault on his authority last night as he was hit by a significant revolt over Europe by furious Tory MPs.
In fact late yesterday British MPs voted by 483 votes to 111, majority 372, against a motion calling for a referendum on the UK’s relationship with the European Union.
The rebel bid to pressure the government into staging an in/out EU referendum was overwhelmingly rejected thanks to opposition from Labour and Lib Dem MPs.
But the defeat will provide minimal comfort for the Prime Minister, who failed to convince many disgruntled Tories that he backed their aims, but the timing was wrong.
During impassioned scenes in the Commons one ministerial aide, Adam Holloway, quit and another, Stewart Jackson, effectively fell on his sword by announcing he would defy the leadership and “take the consequences”.
The rebellion is the most serious challenge Mr Cameron has faced since becoming party leader six years ago.
Speaking in the Commons ahead of the vote he pleaded with Tory MPs to fall into line warning that a referendum would damage Britain’s interests.
He also spent the day meeting potential rebels in an attempt to defuse the row.
Mr Cameron told the Commons that launching legislation for a referendum could be disastrous at the current “moment of economic crisis”.
“When your neighbour’s house is on fire, your first impulse should be to help him put out the flames – not least to stop the flames reaching your own house,” he said.
“This is not the time to argue about walking away. Not just for their sakes, but for ours.
“Legislating now for a referendum, including on whether Britain should leave the EU, could cause great uncertainty and could actually damage our prospects of growth.”
He insisted he had “respect” for the rebels’ views and claimed they disagreed “not about ends, but about means”.
If eurosceptics had won the motion, it would not have been binding, but the Prime Minister said he decided to impose a three-line Whip rather than allow a freer vote because “this issue and Parliament matters”.
But Conservative MPs accused the leadership of bullying tactics and bungling party management by imposing the strictest voting order on the motion.
The row has also seen a backlash against Foreign Secretary William Hague, a former Tory leader who has previously led ferocious anti-Europe campaigns.
Backbenchers criticised him for “going native” and claimed his speech was “written by the Lib Dems”.
Labour leader Ed Miliband told MPs Britain “could not afford” to leave the EU at the moment and should concentrate on pushing through reforms.
37 Comments Comment
Leave a Comment
The Brits always had a love-hate relationship with the EU since De Gaulle said “non” three times to their request to become members; even outside the euro they are tied up hand and foot and cannot afford to leave as two-thirds of British exports go EU way; out of the EU up go tariffs on Brit exports resulting in the collapse of that,dare I say it, anachronism the Pound Sterling.
Well they decided to stay out of the Euro, so grin and bear it ! They thought that by staying out of the Euro they would be immune to the Euro troubles. Well ,nobody is immune be it the UK, USA, China and other Bric countries; it’s a case of either swimming or sinking together.
Yesterday’s Commons vote will cause speculators to have a good look at Stg; remember when George Soros in the 80s had a go at shorting sterling and made a billion off the UK reserves on a Wednesday afternoon.
Partnerxipp. The Best Choice.
The British media , ad nauseam , trash anything European , from the Euro to the metric system .
Little does the MEDIA realise that the British “house is on fire” equal to , or worse than the Eurozone. Admittedly there is the Greek crisis , plus the contagion of Ireland , Spain and Italy . But look at these figures as an example :
UK Italy
Budget deficit 2011 9% 3.5 %
Deficit % GDP 2008 40% 110 %
Deficit % GDP 2011 70% 120%
Unemployment 9% 8%
Inflation 5% 3%
GDP growth 2011 0.2% 1%
It is to be noted that UK’s budget Deficit as % of GDP would have doubled in 5 years , while Italy increased by only 10%
Italy plans is the only Eurozone member , to have a primary surplus . (ie its deficit is payment of interest on its debt mountain, which has been there for years) , and plans to have a balanced budget by 2013 . The UK plans to balance its deficit in 5 years.
UK had a windfall of being a net oil exporter for the best of 25 years, and still has galloping budget deficit. Italy imports practically all its energy requirements.
So much for portraying Berlusconi as some buffon , but ecomically , Italy has not done too badly in the economic crisis , and he is right to say that it is all speculative.
When one adds personal debt and banking debt , the UK comes out top with debt. Have you heard of any bailout of an Italian Bank ? No , because Italy has a very serious banking regulator , fortunate enough to have a history of excellent central bankers , not some puppet in the “pockets” of the commercial banks
Dont take all what is said on the media , at face value.
Italy has had a bad reputation with governments toppling every year , and unfortunately Berlusconi’s antics just make it worse .
Indeed , some 2 weeks ago there was an article on the Financial Times comparing the UK and Italian economies , and came to the conclusion that Italy has a sounder economy , far from bankrupt , with a solid industry and tourist economy . But Sky will never quote this report ! Its just EU bashing .
great comment.
So very to the point! We Maltese very often think we are still a colony as much as the British still think they are an empire.
True words indeed
You forgot to mention Gordon Brown and the 13 years of New Labour rule which accumulated massive debts. It was 13 years of Spend and Spin.
The only noteworthy part of your post is ‘not to take what is said in the media (,?) at face value’.
You are correct on most of your statistics but seem oblivious to the fact that by keeping sterling, they have the one and only tool left available to counteract the problems with their economy, which Italy, and the rest of Europe, cannot.
The fact that our prime minister is also against Europe’s efforts to ‘harmonise’ economic governance seems to have bypassed you.
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20111024/local/Malta-lukewarm-on-treaty-changes.390461
The Euro has become a straightjacket for the PIGS, and their biggest fear is a total loss of sovereignty to a bunch of socialist, kleptocratic bureaucrats.
Governments across Europe are reduced to rubber-stamping twats.
Colonial mentality? Jeez!
[Daphne – Straitjacket, as in strait, meaning narrow and restrictive.]
oops the tabular did not come out as it should . The first figures are for the UK economy , the second set for Italy
At least you told us not to take all at face value.
One out of every 5 UK MPs is in favour of Britain leaving the EU. Not bad at all.
In Malta, that proportion is as big as the number of Labour MPs in Parliament. Plus or minus JPO.
The other day on Smash TV, KMB was urging the Maltese nation to rise up against the regime and demand that Malta leave the EU. Again………. yawn yawn.
http://abc.az/eng/news/main/58977.html
Possible site from where KMB and Mario Tabone Vassallo get their source of information.
And Kev
Talking of which, kev has been rather quiet lately. Maybe he’s worried Sharon will hack his computer and find out he’s been talking to Daphne.
No smileys, though.
I am pretty sure Joseph Muscat is watching the UK moves very closely as in government he will implement his secret plan to pull Malta out of the EU.
This is the MLP ultimate goal. The MLP delegates voted for Joseph Muscat as their leader because he quietly promised them that he will pull Malta out of the EU.
I haven’t got a degree in EU studies, but here’s my two cents worth.
I’ve been living in the UK for the past three years and was always confused as to why the UK dislikes the EU more than anything, while at the same time having no problem being used by the US and dragged into a war of questionable legality, leaving it’s MoD to axe loads of jobs within the military, reducing the size of their regular army while trying to increase the size of the less expensive Territorials, and also having a portion of their army French.
The EU is a union of countries which work together to make sure everyone gets a fair deal. But no one in the UK knows this. They think that all EU countries are out to stab everyone else in the back.
This old-fashioned perception of other countries is at the heart of their cynical attitude towards the EU.
And their politicians don’t help either. None of them want to tell their people about the benefits of the EU or how it works. They are more than happy to allow the people to be angry about something they know little about.
What is stranger still is that the UK tried to form something very similar way back in the day with Denmark, but it fell flat. So why do they hate something they themselves were trying to create?
Many UK citizens do not see the EU as a union in which they should be active. They see it as having a figure in a very inconvenient pie.
They seem to only want to have influence in the EU to protect their own interests because they think that all countries in the EU use the EU as a battling ground to protect their interests and to hell with everyone else. As they all say here “Britain first!”
Those UK citizens who are in favor of the EU are those who live in an EU country, have to travel a lot in the EU, or have business in the EU, but that is a very few since most British emigrate to English speaking countries because they can’t speak any language other than their own.
Those who dislike the EU, and they are in the vast majority, when questioned are totally ignorant of the benefits.
Most of the people I’ve spoken to don’t believe me when I tell them that the UK is not the only country in the EU with free healthcare. “So why did I have to take out health insurance when I travelled?” they ask with disbelief.
And so I have had to explain to them why an insurance company is not going to list the reasons why their customers don’t need them.
This is just one example of the effects of the anti-EU propaganda that is constantly shoved down people’s throats here in the UK.
“But we are proud of our country and its history,” they say as though being part of the EU automatically means you are not proud of your country.
So I’ve had to explain that everyone is proud of their country and so I don’t understand their argument.
They say “Exactly, which is why we should not be in the EU”. This meaning that since all countries in the EU are proud of their country then all EU countries are out to protect their own interests at the expense of the other member countries- but is that what other countries use the EU for?
It’s not that the UK still thinks it’s an empire. It is its anachronistic definition of patriotism coupled with an ill-informed public and a 100% biased media.
No, the EU is not perfect. Yes, there are downsides to the whole thing. But the trick is to come up with solutions and not complain about it in the House of Commons.
That is the price you pay for 60 years of peace in Europe. Not a bad deal. But the British don’t know this.
Very well said.
Unfortunately public opinion in the UK is formed by newspapers that feature topless women on their inside pages.
The English are still proud that they beat the French and the Germans ( I do not imagine that any remember beating the Spanish ) so for most the EU has been misunderstood as losing their standing as victors . This has all been passed on to a new generation .
I don’t think they give much importance to those battles and wars. I personally think it’s just a totally misunderstanding of what the EU actually is.
However I don’t believe that anyone should be too judgmental. Personally I think it is a shame that they feel the way they do towards the EU, especially since most if not all other EU countries are for the most part happy and excited that we are all living in peace.
We all take peace for granted and forget how fragile and delicate we humans are, and what those small and seemingly just ideals that can lead to disastrous consequences are.
What seem like harmless ( yet very offensive) caricatures of a race leads to plans to exterminate them.
“My country first” attitude leads to a foreign policy that spells disaster for that nation and those around it where mistakes from the past are made once more and we all find history repeating itself.
This attitude makes many other EU citizens feel sad because they all feel that we’ve moved on from that sort of ethos and now we know it s best to work together. I know this because I taught English to foreigners for 7 years and have had this discussion many times. Actually it’s never a discussion or debate. It’s always been 15 minutes of general agreement.
And it is a shame that the UK doesn’t share that outlook. No one wants to take over their country or make them feel any less proud of it,so why can’t they just relax and be happy that,finally, we HAVE learnt from our mistakes and this is what those lessons look like.
But we should not judge them. Perhaps we should try and communicate to them what it is that they have missed in terms of being informed.
How many times have you heard the British referring to the European Union as the “Common Market”?
Exactly.
Totally agree with you. British politicians of all hues find it very covenient to have the EU as an excuse for anything that goes wrong on their watch (remind you of someone on the Maltese political scene?).
No wonder Sarkozy blew his top and told David Cameron where to get off with his whining.
Just read the comments regarding the EU on the UK online media; they show the same ignorance about what the EU stands for and how the UK is getting a raw deal as the comments on timesofmalta.com, MaltaToday and Maltastar.
And over and above that, in Malta we also have to deal with the whining of Brit expats about the EUR/Stg exchange rate.
Edward, if that’s your two cents, I wonder what your 50 cents is like.
About the British, do not forget their colonial past. Why would they want Brussels to make decisions for them, when they made decisions for, among others, Calcutta, Sydney, Johannesburg, Valletta and the Falkland Islands?
I am sure that this is how they think.
So far, not one English person has mentioned the Empire when talking about their relation with the EU, so I don’t agree with you on that point.
What I have heard is how proud they are of what their country has done in the past, and how many of those great men went to their school, a point that speaks volumes I feel.
Whenever someone behaves or reacts in a strange way it’s easy to just write them off as party poopers and send them on their way.
However I find it easier to think of them as behaving like normal people, just in a strange situation.
Their attitude to the EU comes from their perception of what other countries want. In other words, they think that they must watch their backs because of what other countries will take from them and never get back.
If the EU were a battle ground used by countries to bring down others to boost their own success, then the British would be behaving normally. The disillusionment will come when they find out that such a scenario only exists in their minds.
I bet the City prefers to keep things as they are. That is closer ties with US and antagonism towards France and Germany. All this at the expense of Joe Public, who seems to be easily dragged by the nose with a flag and the beat of a drum…
And it’s not just the cheap tabloids, the Times after all is now owned by the Murdocks ad he’s interested only in the bottom line.
Found this old but still relevant statistic effectively blaming tabloids for the bad press:
http://www.york.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/2003/anti-eu/
No wonder, after all the EU was supposed to monitor deficit and public debt of each member. How are we the public supposed to have faith in the system when they let this disaster happen?
Hi Matt, happy dreams, are you still living in Malta? The Labour Party in government could bring more respect to Malta from our European Union friends, you see dreamer.
Labour has always been an embarrassment to Malta whenever it was in power. I see absolutely nothing to suggest that it will be any different in future.
Gej bir-‘respect’! L-anqas biss jaf kif imur man-nies. Nixtieq narah jiehu xi head of state jiekol ghand il-MacDonald’s ghax idejquh l-ikliet formali.
Hey Guys. We’re in a depression. It began in 2008 and will continue for many years.
Rearranging the deck chairs won’t help.
Time to step up and take our punishment. The markets will prevail.
You won’t read this in the media, though.
Euroscepticism has been rampant in Britain ever since the Treaty of Rome.
The reasons are manifold.
Essentially, it all boils down to the bad feelings the native British have for the European peoples who “lost” The Wars mainly WWII.
The British hate the Germans and they mistrust and despise the French. The Spanish are tolerated and considered innocuous.
The economic miracle in post-war Italy has always been viewed with suspicion in Britain. Bloody fraudsters the lot of them.
De Gaulle was perfectly right. He was convinced that no genuine political will existed in Britain to join the EEC.
He was a sly fox and knew his neighbours across La Manche very, very well. After all his ancestors hailed from Co Down.
Harold Wilson, with his Oxford first class in PPE, successfully cajoled the TUC and the British people to a yes vote in the 1975 referendum. He argued his case mainly on economic and commercial grounds.
In conclusion the British people never really wanted to sit at the same table with the vanquished.
Actually it started when Henry VIII started looking for his second wife.
The EU and democracy are not perfect, but they are the best so far.
I am pissed off with unions, Socialists and Greens.
They blame the speculators as the one and all cause of the problems we are facing but they seem to forget that Europe has a welfare and regulatory system which is beyond its means, that is, excluding the Scandinavian countries who make it sustainable through heavy taxation.
Moral of the story – all have a finger in the pie so stop pointing fingers.
” Pro-Europeanism is associated with left-of-centre or liberal parties while anti-Europeanism tends to be linked with conservative parties, hence the situation in Malta.”
This statement implies that the PN who brought Malta into Europe is left of centre. I doubt it very much as I am unaware of any policy postion that the PN holds dear to be considered left of centre. By implication this makes Malta the odd one out in this context..
[Daphne – Practically all of the PN’s policies are centre-left, responder: health, education, social services, the European Union, you name it. On the economy, it tends to the liberal. The Labour Party’s policies are a mix of far left and far right, and its supporters are extremely conservative. On foreign policy, it veers to the right. Yes, you’re right: Malta is the odd one out. But that has been said all along, most noticeably during the referendum campaign. The Malta Labour Party was the only socialist party in Europe that opposed EU membership and opposed the very idea of the EU.]
Whose foreign policy veers to the right? PN or MLP’s? I think they’re actually both very left-wing in their foreign policy, in a beatnik pacifist sense, which is just about the worst way you can approach foreign policy.
While we are on this theme, I love “quantitative easing” which just means “printing money”.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/oct/26/uk-euro-eurozone
I know it’s The Guardian but read the article by John Monks: ” “Britain should consider joining the Euro”.