If you want Joseph Muscat to become prime minister, vote AD
If you vote AD instead of PN, you’re making a Labour government even more of a certainty. A coalition is a numerical impossibility.
You have got to read the story in the link below.
It’s about the mess created in Italy by people voting as they please with no regard to the consequences (“it’s my vote and I do what I like with it” – yes, right, so stick it in the bin, why don’t you).
Think really, really hard about any crazy notion of voting AD and landing us all with Joseph Muscat as prime minister with his sleazy bunch of 1970s specimens and contemporary freaks to shark around the government for five years.
I like Michael Briguglio a lot, but there’s no way I’m going to vote for him biex nispiccaw b’Joseph Muscat bhala prim ministru.
I can work out what happens if I remove my vote from the PN without somebody else also removing theirs from Labour.
We’re back again to those ‘AD coalition’ arguments. Another general election, another round of arguments about why AD should have a seat in parliament.
When, if ever, are people going to understand that AD is essentially a tal-pepe outfit that strips votes only from the PN camp, leaving Labour static (or growing).
When votes leave the PN for AD but don’t leave Labour for AD, the gap between PN and Labour widens. This means that Labour automatically forms the government by dint of having by far the largest number of seats. And coalition be damned.
What you end up with is a Labour government with lots of seats, a Nationalist opposition with around three or four fewer seats, and no seat for AD.
There is some talk about AD having the casting vote in parliament. Quite apart from the absolute immorality, in a majority-rule democracy, of having a one-seat party representing the tiniest minority but calling all the shots (like Botox Jeff and Cracked Franco in the last legislature), this is never going to happen.
For it to happen, AD would have to drain votes away from both major parties in equal numbers from all over Malta and Gozo, then secure enough votes for its candidate in one district to secure a seat. The first scenario is impossible, and the second is, at the current showing, almost impossible. Imagine the odds, then, of having them occur together: zero.
What’s happening now is that AD is pulling votes away from younger people and from some people my sort of age, who like to consider themselves alternative types, who previously voted PN or who would have voted PN and who find the Labour Party too embarrassing. AD is pulling no votes from Labour.
There is no chance of a coalition, numerically speaking. Labour is already in an incredibly strong position. By pulling your vote away from the PN, you will be weakening the PN in relation to Labour, making a Labour government even more of a certainty and a coalition (ironically) even more of an impossibility.
68 Comments Comment
Leave a Comment
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20130226/world/che-casino-italy-s-mess-dismays-business.459317
Good job Italy went to the polls a couple of weeks ahead of us.
It’s an eye opener to all those ‘imxammrin’ who plan to snub PN for personal reasons.
Have you seen this yet?
http://www.maltarightnow.com/?module=news&at=L-u%26%23267%3Bu%26%23295%3B+Maltin+ta%27+Muscat&t=a&aid=99845136&cid=19
[Daphne – Thanks. No, I hadn’t yet.]
No way ! He stole 93,000 Euro ? And what is he doing on the street? He should be behind bars!
Malta Taghna Ukoll ! X’wicc tost.
Well, we must admit he looks better with his face covered.
A one seat majority Parliament threatened by dope-loving Commie reject…. that would be really najsss… not.
AD candidates are honest and full of integrity; I know some of them personally. However the problem is they seem to be living in a world of their own. They do not realize that the main battle, every 5 years, is between Good or Evil governance.
Then again, with 12% difference, it won’t matter. Better to lose votes to AD than to Labour.
[Daphne – Why lose votes to anyone at all? It’s about time people started to be proud of their brain and of using it.]
Dak wicc ta’ frodist jew ahjar ta’ Laburist.
In this context, using your brain would mean doing something that makes sense with respect to the betterment of the nation. Honestly Daphne, I think it makes more sense to vote for the liberal party over the 2 conservative ones when it comes to bettering the nation…Not everyone is voting for AD to not vote for PN, honestly I’m voting for them because I’m sick of there being this closed minded conservative mentality in this country (It’s not a very nice thought knowing you’re one of the few developed countries in the world which is against gay marriage for example), and I feel that having even 1 Liberal in parliament would be the doorway to the rest of the people here going Liberal…
[Daphne – I’m confused. How do you improve your country by voting AD and giving that country Joseph Muscat as prime minister? More to the point – how does Malta improve if AD has a seat in parliament? AD has had a seat in parliament already – you forget that. Wenzu Mintoff’s, when he left Labour momentarily and retained his seat as AD. It didn’t make a blind bit of difference to the liberalism of Malta. The Nationalist Party did that. You don’t know much about liberalism if you think it’s about marriage. Gay marriage is not the most important liberty, either. What would you rather live in, a country with gay marriage and severe restrictions on freedom of speech, or a country with no gay marriage and complete freedom of speech? ]
AD is everything but Liberal, they’re a bunch of traditional leftists bent on ideologial twists to private property, work, wealth and individual rights.
They refuse to test their proposals against market conditions expecting to impose measures which, they think, won’t carry adverse consequences.
In short they don’t distinguish between a regulated and a controlled market.
They proposed Manoel Island to be forced from the legitimate holders, a company which opened to the public’s shareholding.
If this is their mindset, no thanks.
I think there are more individuals with an inferiority complex than actual gay people who are making a fuss over this gay marriage charade.
Seriously, there are more pressing issues at hand, far more important than giving gays more state interference in their relationship so that Edward can feel happy about the country following the latest trends and the evil conservative Nazis/Taliban/Capitalists/Zionists being pissed off.
… PLUS Franco Debono has already shown us the damage a “maverick” seat in parliament can do.
We can’t have another 5 year dose of “will he won’t he” drama with an AD person in parliament
As if Labour will have a measly one-seat majority this time.
[Daphne – Keep up, Qeghdin Sew. That is exactly what we’re saying.]
Imperium Europa, surprisingly, have shown more sense and logic than AD on this issue.
In fact they’re not standing for election at all, to make sure every last vote goes to Labour.
By AD’s own admission in one of it’s adverts Arnold Cassola happily states. “Wara ghoxrin sena ahna ghadna hawn”
Dear Arnold, in basic English this merely means – ‘After twenty years we haven’t moved an inch’
No wonder that ‘maghkhom naf fejn jien’ mhux bilfors jekk ghadkhom fl-istess post
Well, at least you’re honest about it.
A quota is one sixth of the valid votes of a district.
There are around 23,000 votes in a district. 1/6 is around 3,800 votes, or 16.7%
AD would need to increase its vote by over 7 times in the 10th district (542 votes in 2008, 2.4%) and by over 26 times in the 1st district (142 votes in ’08, 0.67%) to reach a quota.
Source: http://www.maltadata.com/party01.htm
The rule is pretty simple. The party with most 1s, governs.
It’s impossible for AD to elect a MP – it’s all about maths.
Maths isn’t on PN’s side this time round too – yet there is a slight chance that PN might be re-elected.
If you know that a PN government is a better choice than a Labour government (you know that we can’t have an AD government), then don’t fragment the opposition to Labour by voting AD as your first preference.
It’s also pertinent to note that it’s Cassola who’s doing the talking.
And if he dares make any comparison with Grillo, AD’s pushing for state financing of political parties. As privileged as it can get.
AD is also for increased taxation, a paranoid economy, and a series of measures which will force property owners to sell. No need to guess who’ll snap up the spike.
They’re blinkered, the chairman a declared marxist. They will accuse others of being facile, yet won’t explain what happens to an economy with their hostility to an open market.
Cassola’s having the time of his life declaring everyone guilty before judgement is passed, a Di Pietro, Pecoraro Scagno and Bertinotti rolled into one. Fact is, these have all been consigned to history.
The same Cassola who had a seat in Prodi’s short lived government in 2006 which passed a series of laws INCREASING privileges and lavish pensions for mp’s.
It was a secret vote, he didn’t walk out.
Corrective measures made by the Lega recently took it away.
He was the butt of jokes in the chamber’s corridors; Having made a fuss to get an office other than the one given, timing his colleagues’ work habits to bag the one he had set his eyes on.
Protesting all along the way to discrimination due his double passport.
I know Italians to consider anyone with a familiar surname as one of their own.
1) In Europe there are 35 coalition governments, many of which function well.
2) Your argument that AD will make government unstable does not hold because we have just seen that without AD the government can also be unstable.
[Daphne – No, Albert, what we have seen is that when one person (person, not seat) is allowed to hold the balance of power the result is not more democracy but less. That applies to one seat for AD or for one seat for a person with psychological problems sitting with a larger party.]
3) A vote for AD just means a vote for AD. PN and PL will not lose anything. Votes are not owned by a party.
[Daphne – This is what I call the ‘reasoning from your arse’ argument. Don’t forget that we’ve been through this in another two elections at least already. In 2003 you nearly lost us EU membership with your dangerously irresponsible requests for people to vote AD, and in 2008 you nearly landed us with Alfred Sant as prime minister. A vote has consequences that go beyond the actual act of voting for a particular party. That’s why I gave you the current mess in Italy as an example. I have noticed that it is only the seriously immature (whatever the age) who talk about voting for AD, and this isn’t a coincidence.]
4) For AD to be in parliament there is no need to drain votes in all districts but only get a good amount of votes in one.
[Daphne – There you go, you see? You didn’t understand a thing I wrote. I repeat: for there to be a coalition, AD has to hold the balance of power. For AD to hold the balance of power, MLP and PN will need to have equal numbers of seats. For the main parties to have equal numbers of seats, they will have to have equal numbers of votes, or roughly that. This means that votes will have to be drained away from both parties at equal levels all over the country. Meanwhile, for AD to get a seat, it will have to drain more votes in that particular district. If AD does not drain votes away equally from PN and MLP, it will get its seat at the expense of the PN, which means that Labour will form the government without even a pause to breathe the word ‘coalition’.]
5) Even if AD does not get elected, I am very proud to be voting for the only remaining party with an ideology. A vote for AD is not necessarily a protest vote. Don’t you think that branding one’s democratic right to vote for his party of choice “a crazy notion” is a little bit arrogant?
[Daphne – No, I don’t. I think that the decision of people like you, to vote purely for your own selfish ego-stroking without giving a damn about anyone else or the country’s fate, is true and utter arrogance. AD is the party chosen by people who think they are above the rest, above it all, and special. The party itself may be interesting, but the people who choose it are generally insufferable. They are insufferable not because they choose AD, but they choose AD because they are insufferable. For many years it was the party of single people, whether they were single by accident or design. I was never surprised. It still attracts a disproportionate number of selfish and self-interested individuals. I would never say that I am proud to be doing anything at all that lands Malta with Prime Minister Joseph Muscat – yes, even if it is voting for AD.]
7) Scaremongering will not work this time round. You can start attacking me now.
[Daphne – Maltese people are ridiculous. Legitimate argument and criticism is ‘an attack’. You’re a grown man, deal with it. No, scaremongering will not work. But d’you know what will? Learning the hard way that voting AD gets them Labour – just like they learned the hard way that voting AD in the MEP elections gave the anti-EU Labour Party three seats in the European Parliament while the Nationalist Party, which got us into Europe, got only two. Great going, eh – nice work, AD voters.]
AD couldn’t care less, Cassola packed off to a cushy seat, came across all mea culpa last time. Only to watch Cassola take centre stage again.
Are these people for real?
http://www.maltastar.com/dart/20130226-will-gonzi-be-writing-to-joseph-muscat
wow you’re stupid.
[Daphne – Yes, that’s what they all tell me.]
Tagħna Lkoll
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypGkENRgXVk
With all due respect, how on earth and beyond, can anyone compare Franco Debono or JPO with Carmel Cacopardo to mention one of the best candidate AD and the (old) PN ever had!
[Daphne – I don’t think Carmel Cacopardo is one of the best candidates of anything. He appears to be as difficult a personality as the other two, though not malicious like them. I really don’t know why you admire him so much. He’s an interesting character but I can’t see him running anything. As to your other point, don’t judge a person’s character until he realises that he holds the balance of power in parliament.]
Notwithstanding all the bias one may have, some facts are so obvious that any attempts to twist them simply backfires!
[Daphne – Not really, no. I’ve been around for quite a long time and remember all these characters in their various incarnations. AD is not as pure and simple as you make it out to be. Arnold Cassola actually buggered off at one point and got himself elected in Italy using his Italian passport. And Harry Vassallo buggered off to Brussels as John Dalli’s bridesmaid. Very honourable, wouldn’t you say.]
Carmel Cacopardo may not have the managerial skills and definitely not the Machiavellian strategies, so synonymous with the PN.
One thing for sure is however, that his integrity is second to none.
If only all the current and prospective PN cabinet has half Carmel’s integrity we will not be in this mess.
I had professional relations with architect Carmel Cacopardo and oh boy does he have a difficult personality verging on the arrogant (the last word is not one I use lightly).
Comparing Italy’s political scene to ours is ridiculous. The way their parliament works is way more complicated than ours and with so many political parties and splinter groups vying for votes its bound to get messy.
In reality AD are and always were ahead of their time when it comes to social issues. I refuse to accept the static position both major political parties have taken towards issues like civil liberties and their stand on our outdated drugs policy, just to mention a couple of examples.
Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t a man just get almost 10 years jail for possessing a couple of illegal plants?? For Christ’s sake it’s 2013 and we’re living in a civilised and modern country not in some barren land run by the Taliban.
Its only a matter of time before legislation on certain issues is changed and brought more in line with our European counterparts, there is no stopping it.
Both major parties are hesitant to introduce this change whereas AD has made its stand very clear on various issues, something the two parties will never do, for fear of losing votes.
[Daphne – Big deal, Fidelio, and what is AD going to do with its stand? Legislate? You need more than one seat to legislate. Even in a coalition situation their one seat won’t get them any legislative power. Nick Clegg’s Liberals had a lot more than one seat holding the balance of power in Britain, and they still had to drop all or most of their key pledges to the electorate. Given that you have had the decency to let me know who you are, I’ll have to say this: you and I are a little too old for this kind of utter idealistic naivite. At our sort of age we should know the obvious: that if you want to get certain things done, then you choose the best vehicle for doing it. If you want to get from A to B you don’t go via XY and Z. The most sensible way to achieve any poltical objective is to do it through a party that can actually legislate. In two years the Nationalist Party has gone from being anti-divorce to being pro-gay adoption and pro-gay civil unions. How do you think that happened? People working from the inside. You join the party and you change it. Brutal bottom-line: only Labour and the PN can legislate. AD will never be able to. A vote for AD can never be anything other than a protest vote, and to still be protesting in our 40s, instead of doing some actual political lobbying, is a little inappropriate. I stopped doing all that in my 20s. One has to grow up at some point.]
Ok then, we’ll vote AD to smoke pot.
I mean, there was Cacopardo on Xarabank, correcting Peppi to the number of plants people will be able to grow on their balconies.
How this can be extended to coke and heroin is still under study it seems.
Is there an age limit?
And what about the plight of those enslaved in the drug trade?
Legalising consumption keeping the trade illicit, nice.
So, if some 19 year old is arrested in customs, will the police search for injection scars to determine prosecution?
Honestly, AD is your typical radical chic.
You clearly have no concept of what democracy is.
My amazement is how on earth did it come about that slightly more than one in every four Italian voters betted on Beppe Grillo – when all the rest of Europe regularly called him a comedian when speaking about Italian politics.
We may not have a comedian of that stature playing the politician in our midst – but we do have alternative ‘great pretenders’ trying to dictate how PN should or should act.
It’s what he says all the time. When a country’s banks and newspapers are owned by the political parties it comes as no surprise.
The mastermind behind it all Casaleggio, knew exactly what he was doing when strict instructions not to appear on TV were issued.
The nature of politics will never be the same. At least in Italy.
What we have here is a blog replacing traditional politics. What’s significant is that the left has been drained, Muscat mentioned something to that effect tonight.
This was last year.
http://www.goodgearguide.com.au/article/444260/italian_party_uses_internet_select_parliamentary_candidates/
What’s really surprising in my view, was how fast Italians adapted to the internet and the novel use of its instruments.
The others just didn’t notice, relying on their TV talk shows. These people were online forming proposals.
“Ohti tghidx kemm tberraq x’hin tisma il-kelma Labour!”
“Tghajjatx u aghlaq il-blinds!”
I am voting against Labour more than for PN in this election. It just so happens that the only way to do that is to vote PN.
MX
just play into the PN strategy, and at the same time condemning the PN to become as bad as Labour.
Hear hear!
In the world’s greatest nation, The United States of America, only two parties contest the election for President, so who needs Alternattiva Democratika on this little rock.
That is due to the 2 big parties developing an electoral system which favours that kind of thing, in a similar fashion as the Maltese parties have done, with the difference that here in Malta they have done it socially rather than electorally so it’s slightly easier to break down.
Also, from your imbecile comment I take it you know nothing of American politics. The USA has a multi-level government, with Federal Governments and State Governments having different areas of competence, so therefore one cannot make comparison between our system and theirs.
Kenneth Zammit Tabona is quickly turning into our own comedian.
Today he wondered out loud from where the PN got this odd idea that the PL will screw up the economy. One wonders where he has been living for the past 50 years. They screwed it up every time they were in power, Kenneth.
Also, is it just me or is there a sexual frisson running through his article today? The title is ‘Nobody does it better’. Halfway through the article, he starts going on about having cold showers.
One last thing, the explosion in the PN advert is not the south of Malta exploding but a real gas plant/tank exploding somewhere in Mexico. Explosions happen.
That is not scaremongering but the truth. Yes, maybe the chances of an explosion are small but why risk it at all when it can so easily be avoided by building an EU funded pipeline instead?
Kenneth has really lost it. The tragedy is that he has a platform in The Times but seems to think that makes him a political columnist when he is not equipped, by any means, to tackle the subject.
Change of subject. How Kenneth Zammit Tabona has the gall to write an article like he did today and at the same time cry ‘poor me’ on Facebook because people are horrid and nasty to him leaves me speechless.
Actually it leaves me feeling nauseated.
Does he realise the number of people who know about the story behind his precious Baroque festival and its funds, and the number of people who know how long he’s known about the promised flat fuq San Gwann? This is all too sickening for words.
Daphne you are really pushing Nationalist families to do just that ,by attacking members of their family.
My family is more important than my party. Well done and thanks.
[Daphne – It’s a free country, David. You know I respect your opinion, but we’re all over the age of 18 and hence responsible for our own actions. You’re not 12 years old, so if you do something, it’s because you choose to do it, and not because I or anyone else ‘made you’ do it or ‘pushed you’ to do it. Anyway, suffice it to say that if I had a cousin currently behaving as disgracefully as Hugh Anastasi, so cheap and tacky, I would feel absolutely no need to defend him, and certainly no need to mimic his political choices just because he has been at the receiving end of some very justified criticism. Quite frankly, I would disown him and pretend I’m not related. I don’t suppose it occurs to you for one minute that the shame and embarrassment is not derived from what I wrote but from what he does. Imissu jisthi, my God, how embarrassing. And I’m not talking about voting Labour, either, but about the constant slumming it with that disgusting, awful and dangerous Super One crowd. I would be careful what I say around him if I were you – it will go straight to Super One in no time at all. In fact, that’s probably how the Labour Party are spying on people – by getting their boys to hang around with indiscreet people like Hugh. You said, he said, they said, she said, and in no time at all Jason Micallef has the information and is storing it away for later use. Lovely. If you feel the need to get mad at somebody, get mad at him, not me. He’s the one embarrassing your family, though I really can’t see how a cousin can cause embarrassment, really – it’s not as though he’s your brother.]
You got it wrong. Hugh is definitely not the person I was referring to.
[Daphne – I’m glad to hear it. I couldn’t imagine why you would want to stick up for him. As for the rest, I have no idea and everyone is related to somebody. That’s one of the reasons why Maltese journalism is so bad. If I had to work out the family tree of everyone I mention I would end up writing nothing. Life in Malta, what can you do.]
Why mentioning Italy ONLY
Is it only a coincidence that the rest of the EU states, including Germany, the UK and even tiny Luxembourg have a strong and lasting coalition government?
Why is the PN so afraid to have a coalition government, inducing more credibility and objectivity?
Did AD do any disservice to the country by actively working towards EU accession, calling for effective policies to protect the environment and people’s quality of life, to uphold civil rights, and again this morning Malta’s main lasting critical issue – water!
[Daphne – Oh for God’s sake, we go through this every election. The way our electoral system works, the party with the majority of seats forms the government. At the current showing, whether AD gets a seat or not, Labour is going to form the government. You can’t compare our 60+ seat parliament with a parliament with hundreds of seats. Our political system and culture is nothing like Germany’s or Luxembourg’s. A closer comparison would be to the UK, which you mentioned too, but you were wrong to mention it to bolster your arguments because it is an absolute and utter disaster – precisely because it’s unworkable in a system designed to function on an oppositional two-party basis, which is, incidentally, the best and most efficient parliamentary system. I drew my readers’ attention to the article about Italy not because of any coalition arguments, but to underscore the fact that voting is a responsible choice that goes way beyond doing what we please. The Italians, like many Maltese, treat their vote as a joke or a tool with which to show contempt towards politicians, and look where it has got them now. Beppe Grillo indeed. Democracy has always been wasted on them.]
If you think that the UK coalition is working well, you’re sorely mistaken.
The Tories and the Liberal Democrats can barely hide their contempt for each other and the election is still two years away. They have widely differing opinions on various topics, especially EU membership. They have recently publicly criticised each other as well.
The only thing keeping them together is the knowledge that if they go for an election, they will be punished severely by the electorate. They’re like a couple who hate each other but stay together for the children or for fear of what the neighbours might say.
The UK is in fact a better example than Italy. We’re not sure what’s going to happen in Italy yet. The UK is a coalition already gone very wrong after only three years in power. The Maltese electoral system is based on the British one.
Here’s a well written article on the British coalition. The British system is similar to Malta’s.
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21569032-coalition-partners-are-growing-apart-bad-their-electoral-prospects-and
I always said God only made two mistakes: he gave Italy – a beautiful country – to the Italians – a bunch of narcissistic poseurs who overdress and overeat between their full-time occupations of lying, stealing, cheating and having it off with someone else’s.
His other mistake was giving oil to Arabs – say no more.
To think I was considering your family’s services. No grazie.
[Daphne – I think you might be confusing Chris with his cousins.]
Good. They would know better.
After more than 150 years of so called unity , Italy is still a hotch potch of province/states and I agree with Chris’ description of the Italians – spot on but I would have also included “egoistic”.
I suspect you might be the 3rd…
.
Berlusconi has just offered a truce to Bersani to form the governissimo. Basically continue with the coalition of the two main parties to keep Grillo away from government
Bersani’s cornered, in that he can’t allow himself to be seen as close to someone who’s calling for a referendum on the Euro.
Bersani will simply insist with Berlusconi to accept Monti as part of the coalition if stability has to be achieved.
Practically all the press, including Il Giornale, Libero as well as L’Unita, Repubblica and Europa are adamant that this is the way forward.
Grillo himself said he won’t enter any compromise coalition.
Doesn’t leave much space for historic decisions.
My comment was not published and is no longer awaiting moderation. Have you rejected/deleted it?
[Daphne – No, it’s still awaiting moderation. There are 170 in the queue.]
If our election laws were such that any party achieving a certain minimum nationwide threshold is automatically alloted at least one seat in parliament we’d have a much fairer system.
This point does not quite operate as a rebuttal of your argument, but I think it’s the elephant in the room in these discussions.
[Daphne – You can’t do that because our system is based on constituencies/districts. MPs represent their constituency, not the nation.]
Wasn’t the last election (2008) enough of an eye opener, might I ask?
And what about the turn of events we witnessed the past two weeks or so – can one really trust Labour? Voting for AD is simply a waste. It always was and will be.
Those Nationalists out there who are thinking of doing so should take heed. Are you really ready to give mighty Joe a helping hand by abstaining from voting for PN or by voting for AD?
Wake up and do what’s right before it’s too late.
In Italy people probably wanted to vote against the system, and were fed up with austerity measures and so voted for a new party.
In France they voted the Soclialists as they did not want Sarkozy any more. In Malta we can vote for the Eagle party.
The people’s will should always be respected, including in Italy. After all democracy started in a Mediterranean country.
[Daphne – No, it didn’t. It started in northern Europe, and more precisely, parliamentary democracy started in Britain. If you are talking of ancient Greek democracy, that’s something else altogether. You’re talking of a situation in which women were not even citizens and barely considered human beings – they were chattels. Very democratic.]
Nevertheless even Britain has now a coalition government leaving Malta as the only practically bi-party country in Europe.
[Daphne – You can be sure that after this experience, Britain will not have another coalition government for generations. It has been a complete and total disaster. If we are the only country in Europe with just two parties in government, then we are the lucky ones. What’s good enough for a world super-power is good enough for me, quite frankly. American efficiency and Italian inefficiency, as reflected perfectly in their electoral results: you have to love it. ]
Daphne there is absolutely no comparison between Malta and Italy. Voting Beppe Grillo is not such a dumb choice you know.
But then again Beppe Grillo has nothing to do with AD neither does Italy’s electoral system have anything in common with Malta’s two-party system.
That’s what AD have been trying to do.
Grillo however addressed thousands out of work, had people on stage whose father committed suicide and spoke about a political caste which practically wrought havoc on the rest of the population.
Grillo himself lauded Malta’s incentives and work conditions as something to emulate.
I have friends who have been active in his movement for some time, and some of them follow this blog.
They consider AD to be a ridiculous outfit, cut off from reality, and think its proposal for state funding of political parties to be extremely dangerous.
It’s what started off the problems in the first place. What is absolutely interesting is that most haven’t understood that Grillo is just the face, he won’t be in parliament, and won’t enter into the activity the 100 elected members intend to carry out.
The pledge is to vote according to the issues. In Palermo they’re resulting essential to get rid of all the rot.
The problem in Italy is the taboo with decision making, the constitution made into a maze of checks and balances which ground everything to a halt.
The communist left held on to the moral advantage, bashing anyone else of having at one point helped Mussolini to power. They practically governed from the opposition.
Malta isn’t anywhere close.
Jozef, that’s exactly it. The only problem is that in Italy we now have no government and before they even start to legislate or teven to propose change (including Movimento 5 stelle proposals) Parliament need to pass a vote of confidence. If Grillo votes with the PD then he may already lose some of his constituents. I for one voted for him but would not be too happy if he creates a coalition with Bersani..
Which he won’t, unless it’s on individual issues. Grillo won’t even be drawn into the discussion.
Bersani is being very silly when he rules out any form of coalition with Berlusconi. There’s already internal rebellion in the PD to replace Bersani with Renzi as party secretary.
If there’s someone who can thrash out differences in formalities with the PDL, it’s Renzi, who’s was also in synch with the incredible contradictions local and regional authorities have to face.
The leaders who seem to understand the electorate at the moment are all either mayors or regional governors. It’s the constitution, ‘l’incompiuta’, which needs major restructuring.
The model Grillo’s after is Crocetta’s minority government in Palermo, it seems to hold. How this can be taken to national level is still to be seen.
Bersami cannot form a coalition with Berlusconi for many reasons. The most important being that Berlusconi is not interested in governing Italy he only wants a way out of his judicial issues and to retain power so that the value of his Fininvest stock does not plummet, Also Bersani has Vendola in his coalition. Berlusconi and Vendola can never sit on the same side of the table. As for Renzi, I fully agree with you. Had that loser Bersani not manouvered to oust Renzi then PD would have won with a definite majority. Renzi was definitely the way forward with or without a coalition. As Crozza said, Bersani would have probably lost even if he ran on his own.
Oh yes, because Beppe Grillo is an intelligent, articulate, experienced politician who knows how a country is run, right?
De Gasperi was just about the only straight and sane post-War politician that Italy produced.
The others were either clowns, or rogues, Fascist nostalgics or Communists. Anyway, Italy was always meant as a joke.
So it votes for jokers.
Moro, Gramsci, Berlinguer, Togliatti, Ciampi, Prodi, Bonino.
Grillo stated he will go after the ones tempted vote the far right to keep them out of their clutches. .
Alba Dorada, Forza Nuova, Storace and Casa Pound have registered major losses. Italy can be a very dangeous place Baxxter, the language allows it.
Wrong Baxxter. For starters lets not forget that Italy is one of the G8 countries so not much of a joke. It has a GDP which is equivalent to that of the UK and only slightly lower than France and Germany. And that does not include the underground economy which would probably double Italy’s GDP. Beppe Grillo is not a politician and his plan is to place a number of people in Parliament who are not “politicians” and who will disappear once the reforms proposed by them go through. They are neither Fascists nor Communists and definitely not jokers. Malta voted for Mintoff and is now voting for Muscat, -how is that for voting for jokers? Beppe Grillo is worth a hundred Josephs.- trust me.
A vote for AD is a vote for PL full stop.
Prosit, Daphne! Very well said. If you want Labour in power, vote AD.
The idea that the coalition in Britain is a disaster is pretty much getting a free ride here. I tend to disagree. The question one has to ask is whether a single party majority would have fared better. I’m not too sure. Also, many of the problems that the coalition is struggling with were inherited from three successive years of single-party majority rule.
[Daphne – The coalition in Britain is definitely a disaster, Charles. Don’t kid yourself. Would a single-party majority have fared better? Of course. Beyond a doubt. Single-party majority rule? It’s a democratic election – rule is associated with sovereigns and dictators, not democratic governments. I see you have sucked up the AD lexicon, helped along in part by the Labour crowd’s ‘Gonzi is a dictator’ (because he accepted the popular mandate, and governed).]
I think you’re right about the ‘lexicon’ point, although in substance it was not my intention to equate a single party having a majority with a dictatorship (that is of course a perfecty valid democratic outcome). But I’m still not convinced that the coalition in Britain is a disaster. I’m not saying there aren’t problems, but I’m not sure the problems are traceable directly to the coalition. Most of the challenges that Britain faces would still be there, coalition or not. Also the previous single-party Labour government made plenty of mistakes which the coalition now has to clear up. Finally, some of the biggest challenges which Britain faces are traceable to the more conservative wings of the Tory party, not the coalition with the lib dems.
But of course all this is just a prelude to a hundred years of glorious leadership under the benevolent rule of the sage Boris.
The Times this morning – no mention in the main headlines or Press Digest of yesterday’s two court arraignments. Another Kasco instruction?
considering there is usually only 1 seat difference between the governing party and the opposition…what’s the difference?
[Daphne – Oh my GOD, you people are unbelievable. You just don’t understand representative democracy at all, even though you do nothing but talk about it. This is not about the one-seat majority. This is about somebody using one seat – ONE SEAT – to control the other 60+ seats. The Labour Party and the Nationalist Party, hate them though you will, represent practically the whole of the Maltese electorate between them.]