Top commonsense comment
Posted by Goeswithoutsaying:
I blame Lisa’s fellow pupils, Erin Tanti’s friends, and most of all Erin Tanti. That man is a pervert, and a disgusting human being for what he has done.
I feel overwhelmed with sadness for Lisa’s father, and family.
Lisa was a victim, and ANYONE who knew of this relationship FAILED Lisa. Anyone coming forward to defend a man who is forming friendships with and supplying alcohol to a 15 year old girl is a disgrace.
There is NO argument for this being OK. The mental and emotional differences between anyone below the age of 16 and anyone above the age of 20 are huge.
I think people are trying to justify this age difference, but there is NO justifying it.
Forget his position as a teacher. Would you think it normal if your 23 year old son was hanging about 15 year olds?
This isn’t a 17 year old going out with a 15 year old. There is NO justifying this.
Erin Tanti manipulated and abused of Lisa’s vulnerability. He was her teacher and she was obviously excited by the attention she was getting from an older man, being young and naive.
He’s disgusting and has her blood on his hands. Lisa’s father will never ever ever truly smile again. No parent should have to attend their child’s funeral.
I also want to say that any pupil who knows anything needs to go forward to the police.
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very well said!
Here’s Aaron Farrugia’s genius take on the whole thing:
“Wiehed jistaqsi ghaliex qieghed isir guri barra mill-qrati tal-gustizzja fuq il-kaz Zahra / Tanti. Wiehed jistaqsi jekk din l-importanza kollha hijiex marbuta mal-bzonn li jintesa` l-arrest tal-persuna li ghal tant xhur kien fl-ahbarijiet bil-qtil u krucifissazzjoni ta` bosta annimali. Forsi ghax hemm konnessjonijiet ohra bejn din il-persuna u persuni ohra vis a vis il-post tal-impjieg tal-arrestat, u allura il-hrug ta` informazzjoni sensittiva mill-Enemalta?”
Sewwa qed tghid Aaron. Din li ghalliem jixtri x-xorb u l-aspirina ghal tifla ta’ 15-il sena u jispiccaw f’qiegh irdum haga zghira. Grazzi tal-perspettiva eccellenti li lluminajtna biha.
Dak il-hames degrees l’ghandek imissek twahhalhom f’xi latrina forsi jkunu utli f’kaz t’emergenza.
Kulhadd qed jinsa li mietet tifla ta’ 15-il sena.
Forsi ghax hawn min ghandu t-tfal u int forsi m’ghandekx? U kulhadd hawn sar jinkwieta li l-pajjiz m’ghadux daqshekk ‘safe’ bil-Maltin mal-Maltin stess?
Forsi ‘il-Commissioner of Laws’, ghandu jahdem sabiex il-ligijiet fejn jidhlu l-minuri jissahhu?
Forsi il-kummissarju ghat-tfal ghandu jindaga?
U forsi ghax ghal Aaron Farrugia, il-qtates huma izjed importanti minn tifla. Forsi qed jipprova inessi, jew jiddevja l-attenzjoni mill-fatt li dak Tanti/Palmier jista jkollu xi konnesjoni ta’ xi natura mal-gvern Laburista, jew wisq aghar mal-prim ministru innifsu.
One does not have to be a parent to see how wrong, and how shocking, it was for Erin Tanti/Erin Tanti Palmier/Erin Stewart Tanti/Erin Stuart Palmier, a teacher, to have been alone at Dingli Clffs with a 15-year-old pupil, and at 4am at that, not to mention the whisky and tubs of painkillers.
I am a parent myself, and find Lisa Maria Zahra’s death shocking, although I didn’t know her. I also know of others who are not parents, and who were shocked to the core by the tragic incident, too. I cannot even begin to imagine what her family is going through, and will have to go through for the rest of their lives.
Just as shocking is the number of people – young and old alike – who have come out in the teacher’s defence, despite the gravity of his actions, which left a girl dead, a family without their daughter/sister/aunt/cousin/grand-daughter, and many without their friend.
I am glad that Erin Tanti remained alive, so that he can live with the consequences of his actions and, hopefully, get the justice he truly deserves.
No minor should be taken advantage of in the way Miss Zahra was, and no family should have to go through what hers will now endure for the rest of their lives.
Ara min qed jitkellem. Il-gvern u l-partit tieghu jeccellaw kif inessu l-affarijiet. Din il-gimgha ezempju car.
Jo tefghalna kollox f’daqqa – il-permess tal-LNG tanker, il-bejgh tal-passaporti, il-hatra tal-president il-gdid u ministri godda. Dan kollu biex hadd ma jiffoka fuq materja wahda.
He may have five degrees but he ain’t got no common sense.
He is five degrees of course and does not know it.
With his 5 degrees, Aaron Farrugia doesn’t seem to understand the exact meaning of the word “news.”
And this man is the CEO of the Freeport Corporation.
“Nahseb ftehmna.”
Well said J .
People like Aaron Farrugia can’t see the blinkin’ obvious let alone be capable of critical thinking.
“Wiehed jistaqsi…” When a Maltese Socialist starts his statements in this way it actually means “Mud-throwing exercise” or “Let us talk about something else completely different from the actual event…” or even “I have 5 degrees; you have only one.”
Wiehed jistaqsi, dawn x’politici huma? Din x’serjeta hi li tikkomunika politikament minn qamel ta’ pagna bhal Facebook?
The “mud-throwing exercise” is most likely. They are specialists in that sort of thing, so they hide themselves behind a question mark.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26754273
“I blame Lisa’s fellow pupils”
I agree with everything you said except for this. They’re 15 and can’t be blamed for their lack of judgement in the run-up to the event.
If they keep on defending him now, given the emergence of new facts, then they are indeed very, very wrong.
“They’re 15 and can’t be blamed for their lack of judgement in the run-up to the event. ”
Daqs kemm qalu li ta’ 15 ikunu jafu daqs ta’ 23. Issa jekk jafu hafna, ikomplu jaccertawna kemm kienu jafu s-sitwazzjoni fl-iskola u m’ghamlu assolutament xejn.
How old are you?
Why forget Erin Tanti’s position as a teacher? That’s what gave him access to Lisa Maria Zahra in the first place.
Yes, he knew her before he joined St Michael’s Foundation School. He was a teacher at Masquerade where she was a pupil.
Didn’t Tanti’s colleagues ever notice anything wrong?
My guess is that they didn’t know it was wrong, and anyone who thought it was wrong and said something were told to stop being so old fashioned.
I doubt they’d be told they were old fashioned if they’d reported the matter to the school. Is it really possible for a teacher to be involved with a pupil without any of his colleagues noticing?
I think it’s all about money. He couldn’t have been paid much as a ‘supply teacher’.
The unfortunate modern fashion nowadays is to pay less and absorb more and he was qualified as the ideal candidate for the job as teaching practice must have been absent from his CV.
As a ‘supply teacher’ holding one basic qualification and not 5 degrees, his salary remuneration package could not have been based upon experience, qualifications and training which out of the three, he qualified in none.
Pity though as many supply teachers start off as he did but manage to get by, at least in my time they did, and many perform better than the 5-degreed university scholars to the extent that after 10 years of experience, they’re on the same level as the fully qualified ones thanks to learning how to get up the professional ladder ethically.
One hangs around with people of the same type, Should one start to investigate his colleagues we better be prepare for a pandoras box.
I’m sorry… But are you a psychologist and a psychiatrist at the same time? Have you personally spoken to erin and did a psychological profile of his mind before the incident?
His actions are wrong. True. But none of us can truly say to what extent he was in control of his actions at that fateful moment.
Deciding this is up to professionals that have all the information required to do so.
You guys are condemining a person without a fair trial, hearing all the evidence, hearing the professional people’s opinion and hearing his own side of the story.
Why do we have courts in malta if you’ve already decided on his guilt? If the court makes a distinction regarding the mental state of a person before they decide on the sentence. …Why can’t you?
Chi tace consente, Avici.
He was in enough control to buy pills and whisky and to drive his car.
Avici, we hardly need a psychological profile of Erin Tanti to know that getting a pupil drunk and drugged up is wrong.
The rush to defend him is mad. It is morally corrupt to wait for further facts.
We have not imprisoned Erin Tanti; that is for a court to do in accordance with principles of due process. But we are outraged that a vulnerable girl has been harmed.
You might direct your own moral outrage in that direction and ask yourself why your automatic response is to defend an abusive man, psychologically unsound or otherwise.
Erin Tanti is not the issue; vulnerable girls and women are the issue.
I bet you were one of those Neanderthals clamouring to have the Mosta man hanged outside the Courts of Law.
It’s unbelievable how people feel more empathy and grief for cats and dogs than for 15 year old human victims of murder or sexual abuse.
@Clueless, what is murder abuse?
Avici,
Nobody is saying he was sane, in fact everyone including Daphne is saying that he must have mental health issues. However, what he did is wrong and shocking nonetheless and people and concerned parents have a right and duty to express their thoughts and anger.
He should not have been a teacher in the first place and the school is to blame for this.
The fact remains that as a teacher he took a young pupil in his car, took her to Dingli cliffs at 0400hrs, plied her with alcohol and meds and she ended up dead whilst he didn’t.
These actions cannot be justified in any way or manner, whatever his mental state.
Schools are always the first to know when something’s wrong with children – it is obvious – school is where they mostly spend time at.
They’re the ones who realise when a child needs reading glasses, when a child is dyslexic, autistic, a prodigy, a genius, a slow-learner, a child with issues, a child who’s abused at home, bullied in class or otherwise. A child with issues shows signs – not necessarily verbal signs but image wise, in her handwriting, in her essays, in her school work – emotionally and in her image a child will reveal she has problems.
If the teachers didn’t realise then this is where one has to concentrate his logic i.e. why didn’t the teachers & heads of school realise when professional training revolves around the above mentioned too.
You might be wrong on that, especially when schools push horror stories and vampire stories as ‘recommended reading’, and for 10-year-olds, at that.
Well Avici , is the mental state you’re referring to that of Erin exactly prior to the tragedy, or that of all the adults who knew about his perverted personality and exploits years before and never thought fit to speak up to protect his victim/s?
U allahares jehlisha with a slap on the wrist! x’qed tghid? Mur strieh u meta tqum erga ahseb fuqha sew. Jekk tasal ghall-istess konkluzjoni, erga irrepeti il-process kollu, srieh imbaghad ahseb.
I do not need the courts of justice to tell me that it is wrong for an adult, moreover a teacher, to drive a minor, his pupil, in the wee hours of the morning, to a dangerous place with whisky and pills.
The adult in this case certainly was not helping the situation, even if there was a ‘situation’ in the first place.
PROSIT.
Well said Avici.
Tghid hekk ghax ma tifhimx kazz fis sistema edukattiva.
Warped.
Avici, you are very stupid. I hope for your sake that you are also very young, that you many grow out of your stupidity.
The courts decide on the guilt or otherwise of those accused of breaking the law. But anyone else can and should decide on what is right or wrong. We do it all the time. You do it too, or you wouldn’t be a sentient human being.
The wrongness of Stewart Tanti’s actions is not decided by the courts, but by the moral standards of the community we call the Civilised World.
Avici, you’re still missing the point for crying out loud. We already know he’s guilty of taking a 15 year-old girl, his pupil, to Dingli cliffs and plying her with drugs and drink, before she ended up dead while in his care. No trial needed for that, and it’s all totally condemnable. His state of mind makes it no less so.
They know you’re right – they just can’t face the reality that they trusted themselves with this man.
Thus the unbelievable reaction. Reality hurts.
Everyone, now please stop talking about Lisa and Erin. One was a victim and other one is mentally unstable and needs to be cured. Enough is enough. If you must talk about this topic then try not to get personal and only focus on what allowed this tragedy to happen: The school and friends / workmates who knew of unethical behaviour (pre-tragedy one cannot suspect anything more than that) and not reporting it in some way or another. Clearly schools and the teaching council have little tools in place to vet their own people. Malta: A third world nation with a first world title.
[Daphne – Why focus the blame on the school when there is an adult in the equation who is entirely responsible for his own actions? And please, no ‘Lisa and Erin’. They were neither a couple nor a couple of teenagers. They were a teacher and his pupil. Failure to understand this obscures your perspective.]
I’d be interested to know how the pupils addressed their teacher, whether it was Mr.Tanti, as should have been the case, or ‘Erin’.
The informality of Erin suggests friendship and equality; the formality of Mr.Tanti would’ve been a constant reminder of the teacher/pupil boundaries. My money is on him being addressed as ‘Erin’ the ‘chum’, and insisting he’s addressed as such.
I hope all schools make this at least a basic requirement, that teachers are addressed in the proper formal manner, because the relationship with pupils is indeed a formal one. No chumminess, thank you very much.
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20140327/local/president-refusing-to-sign-civil-unions-bill.512305
Will Marie Louise Coleiro sign it ? Is it possible that the farmhouse in Gozo is her prepayment for her consent to sign the bill ?
Marie Louise Coleiro has already declared she will be signing the bill since, according to her, this was an electoral commitment made by the Government of Joseph Muscat before the last election.
As for George Abela’s refusal to sign the Civil Unions’ Bill, this is too little too late.
She declared it as a Labour member of parliament and a minister. Her role and duties as a president will be different.
“sorry… But are you a psychologist and a psychiatrist at the same time? Have you personally spoken to erin and did a psychological profile of his mind before the incident? ”
You don’t seem to be a psychologist or a psychiatrist either. You’re just another one of those talking from emotional perspective – something which is very wrong in the circumstances.
When a 15 year old girl dies, when anyone dies, emotional stances like yours don’t help, they just add insult to injury.
Wiehed jiehu idea ta’ kif inhu sejjer il-pajjiz bhalissa, mill-kummenti tal-folla ta’ nies li dahhlu jesprimu l-inkwiet taghhom – mhux ghal-vittma izda ghall-kriminali.
What is clear is that the old peasant mentality that a woman (even underage) becomes a man’s property if they are in a form of relationship or other is still justifiable to Maltese society, even to 15 year olds.
‘Relazzjonijiet’ (which is a very widely used term in Maltese) of whatever sort do not justify what is wrong and illegal. This Mentality let Erin get away with what he did.
I thought we had long passed such days, but again, I’ve been proven wrong.
How can this be flagged as a top comment when it starts with the phrase ‘I blame Lisa’s fellow pupils”?
How are they to blame?
Actually this a pretty irresponsible comment.
I say to Lisa’s fellow students, please do not think for a moment that this is anyway your fault.
Ed
U mela Ed, hadd minnhom ma jaf xejn alla jbierek u kollha dahhlu hawn biex jitkellmu fuq kemm kienu jinhabbu dat-tnejn, u kemm hu teacher helu dan Mr Erin u kemm jghin nies, u ‘how he kept her happy these last 6 months’.
“Please do not think for a moment that his is anyway your fault.”
No one’s blaming them, we’re just asking why nobody reported any wrong doing when they seem to have known both, more than the teachers and the family and the school itself did – that they knew so much about them, in itself is wrong – it means that they were in everyone’s faces.
If the words “I blame Lisa’s fellow pupils’ means anything other than they are being blamed, then please accept my apologies!
If anyone wants to blame the ones who knew something then please do just that and not generalize by blaming all the pupils.
Still, it is quite a burden for a 15 year old to bear. Hope no one of them feels too much guilt and does the unthinkable. Then who shall we blame?
If any of them have done any wrong by not reporting what they knew, then we should leave it up to the qualified people to explain that to them. There are ways and means of doing things.
Thanks
Ed
I’ve been thinking this all along. Some of the comments are pretty vitriolic. You wouldn’t believe they’re adults. It’s disgusting.
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20140327/local/updated-council-says-drama-teacher-in-cliffs-incident-had-no-teaching-warrant.512450
http://www.independent.com.mt/articles/2014-03-27/news/existing-procedures-fail-to-ensure-all-teachers-have-warrants-4403593216/
Wow. Never thought that I’ll receive such feedback from a comment.
I wish I had the time to reply to all of you. .. But alas… I am a teacher. .. and I have things to do.
However, I will state the facts, without any emotional prejudice.
A) What erin did is wrong-and lisa is unfortunately not with us anymore
B) it’s up to the courts, not us to judge and sentence him. Doing so through the info feeded to us through the media is definitely not enough (if that was the case, people can simply judge from the luxury of their home after watching the news and reading some articles)
C) insanity unfortunately makes us do things that are wrong. If this wasn’t the case, the law will not make exemptions and different sentences to such cases.
D) regarding the warrant. .. I’m a teacher. .. so I know. .. You are only screened for your qualifications not your emotional or psychological profile. Maybe schools should start doing this? (To which I agree it’s high time to be done for the sake of their pupils. I work along side several teachers who would do with a visit to a psychiatrist)
E) I’m not a psychologist. .. But i presume that neither is anybody who commented. This is why I’m not presumptuous to blame or unblame erin in his judgement on doing these actions.
[Daphne – I can’t believe you actually wrote ‘feeded’ rather than fed. What sort of teacher are you exactly?]
Once again. .. wow. My only mistake was a grammatical one? My arguments were that good?
[Daphne – Your arguments are terrible. But saying ‘feeded’ is beyond belief.]
Ps. Daphne, you should know by now that (unfortunately) being an adult doesn’t automatically qualify you to be responsible for your actions.
[Daphne – Yes, it does. The law says so, unless you are certified by more than one psychiatrist as suffering from psychotic episodes in which you lose touch with reality. If you mean that being an adult doesn’t necessarily mean you are a responsible person, then yes, I most definitely agree with you.]
Did you do a psychiatric evaluation of erin? Do you have such evaluations in your hand? I don’t. So I cannot deem erin to be either responsible or irreponsible for his actions.
If you have such information, please publish. Until then, it is premature to label him as ‘guilty’ and fully responsible for his actions.
[Daphne – Sorry, but I don’t believe you’re a teacher.]