Oh, will you put a sock in it, please?
The insufferable pompous asses at AD have called on Jeffrey Pullicino Orlando to resign. Excuse me, but resign from what, exactly? The man doesn’t have a ministerial position. He is not even a parliamentary secretary or the chairman of a board. He is an MP, and the only people to who he is answerable in that parliamentary seat are the ones who put him there, i.e. those who voted for him.
It is odd that AD’s politicians, who constantly hector us about the nature of democracy and our electoral system, forget the important point that MPs represent their constituents and not their political parties. If the people who voted for Jeffrey Pullicino Orlando decide that he was in the wrong, they will simply not vote for him in the next general election. Until then, they are entitled to have the person to whom they gave their number-one preference represent them in parliament, and nobody has the right to deny them this representation.
Pullicino Orlando is answerable to the prime minister for what he did or didn’t do, in his capacity as a Nationalist politician. In his capacity as a member of parliament, he is answerable to his constituents. The nature of party politics may have obscured this fact over the years, yet it is reality. If Pullicino Orlando so decides, he can pick up his seat (not literally) and cart it across the floor, putting the Labour Party into government. There is nothing to stop him doing that except his integrity – one assumes that he has some – and his wish to remain loyal to the Nationalist Party.
By saying that the prime minister should ask him to resign his seat, AD is merely demonstrating once more how little it knows about politics – even though it is the ‘political party’ which only ever had a seat in parliament when a Labour MP called Wenzu Mintoff decided one fine day in 1989 that he was an AD MP instead. Yes, he resigned from the Labour Party all right, but he kept his seat.
Resigning from a political party does not equate with resigning one’s seat in parliament.
Why don’t they check out the beam in their own eye?
And who are AD to talk, anyway? Here they are going all mealy-mouthed about Pullicino Orlando, when it’s their own leader, and not Pullicino Orlando, who is the one with a criminal conviction and facing a two-year prison sentence. It’s Harry Vassallo, not Pullicino Orlando, who is refusing to fill in 37 VAT returns on which, he has been told, any presidential waiver of his €14,000 fine is conditional. And it’s Harry Vassallo, not Pullicino Orlando, who hid from the electorate this sordid bit of business and the fact that he had put in a plea for a presidential pardon while at the same time criticising the junior transport official of doing the same when faced with a conviction for taking a bribe. Funny how nobody at whistleblower-mad AD thought of blowing the whistle on Harry. Maybe it’s because saints are always in the right.
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dear aarnold!!!
do us a great favour and get elected in the italian parliament!!
tell us what needs to be done and we’ll leave no stone unturned!!
please do get elected… u hallina bi kwietna for another 5 years (that is, if berlusca gets elected…)!
The Pharisees are alive and kicking and thriving like the green bay tree in the questionable confines ad AD.
I see Cassola has picked up Sant’s trademark thumb-and-forefinger booger-rolling gesture.
Daphne,
Although there is some good reasoning regarding the JPO issue, I don’t agree that as a member of parliament he is only answerable to his constituents.
JPO was a candidate for a political party opting to win a general election. If we lost this election because of this issue, he would have been answerable to all those who voted NP. Pending the outcome of the investigations and his explanations, I think that the only road to saving his face is to resign voluntarily from politics thus saving his integrity for his alleged shortcomings. However his deeds were not criminal but, carried a big political burden.
Reasoning on the same line of thought even AS should have resigned because he used this issue to gain political mileage rather than fight corruption.
Even more serious is the case Mangion/Vella because theirs was a criminal offense which was ‘pannu mraqqa bill-qargha hamra’ seven years after and only because the case saw the light of day. So was the case of Harry which was again used by AD very childishly at the last minute to gain him political ground.
Another thing, that statement made by Franco Debono about unseating other NP members makes me glad he was not in my electoral district.
Certain politicians should first take a course in ethics and integrity before being presented to the electorate.
JPO was elected on a party ticket. His voters gave him their vote because of that party ticket and because he was, until that point deemed credible. He is credible no longer. His voters have a right to feel duped. That a politician, touting so loudly his green credentials, should be involved in such an issue (scandal) is an embarrassment to his voters, his party, and, above all to himself. His most recent declarations that he had nothing to do with the application are not borne out by the recent reports carried in the press last Sunday that he exerted continuous pressure on MEPA DCC Board members. It is completely irrelevant if the application is in his name or not. This is a Natura 2000 site. This is his property. JPO put personal interests before public interest and used his public position as clout. While the DCC members who voted for this ought to be relegated to the invertebrates, JPO, if he still has some dignity, should shoulder his responsibility in the matter.
In the name of God, go.
[Moderator – It is impossible to deduce whether his constituency would like him to remain an MP or not without holding another general election. Until then, the only person who can speak on behalf of Jeffrey’s voters is Jeffrey.]
Dear moderator,
What you say proves my point even more: it’s not just himself that JPO is dragging into all this. It’s his voters from 2 districts and the Party he represents.
He should be a man and leave. That way, he will still be honourably remembered by those who had voted for him.
[Moderator – Again: the only way to ‘know’ whether Jeffrey’s voters want him to leave or not is by setting the date on your time capsule to March 8, 2013. You can claim to speak on behalf of ‘duped’ voters all you like, but it will only be in vain. You get the chance to take away an MP’s seat once every five years, and you are not about to change that yourself.]
Daphne,
I think that if the MEPA chairman issued the report prepared by the MEPA auditor before the election, JPO would not have made it to parliament. The obvious question is why wasn’t it issued in time? (I am also still asking myself why Dr. Sant did not face JPO with the signed contract but AS has paid for his mistakes, JPO no)
I also think that the people who voted for him already feel betrayed for lying to them (by stating that he did not know anything about it or that it was legal and the permit was issued in good faith) and his resignation is only the first step in eating some humble pie.
I sincerely hope that, at least, if in court it is proved that he abused of his position and power, than he would resign. In the US, senators resign even if they are suspected of betraying their wives never mind the environment, the Prime Minister and the electorate.
I also wish that sometimes what you write reflects the title of the Newspaper you write for.
[Moderator – We have gone into the ‘independence’ debate before. Please read this, this and this. There is no such thing as independence, which is why you sign your posts ‘Victor’s nephew’. You are dependent on free-market capitalism for the ability to post this comment, and you are dependent on your uncle for moral support.]
This can get interesting…
All we know up till now is that MEPA have yet again done a great hash of things. JPO’s involvement in the case is yet to be fully ascertained. What seems certain is that JPO lied shamelessly when he cried he didn’t know anything about this permit. Didn’t know what? That the permit existed (he was proved a liar on this) or that the permit was illegal?
I think that there are 3 ways forward with this saga:
1. Everything remains as is. The permit has been already revoked, JPO remains as an MP, and hopefully his constituents will show him the door in 5 years time. After all, Joe Saliba has admitted yesterday that JPO’s case and Harry’s farce have cost PN around 2500 votes in a week…
2. JPO remains independent MP. (and then watch the MLP jackals surround him with empty promises and try to get him on their side)
3. JPO does the decent thing and resigns as MP.
[Moderator – Joe Saliba did not ‘admit’ anything because he was making an analysis not an accusation.]
Mod: I haven’t gone through the independence issue with you before so kindly keep your cool. I don’t sign in my full name since i don’t trust politics no matter what colour it is. With regards to my Unlce, I am free to make my own conclusions and in doing so I try to be as OBJECTIVE as possible and cry foul when it is evident. I don’t blame you for supporting JPO, as noted on election day you were gone for hours to vote for him… and in the end he will probably have to resign.
Oooo by the way I don’t need anyone to give me moral support for being on the loosing end of an election.. there are many more important things in life than politics.
I am also pleased that you picked up on the minor issues of my post… and that this time you published it unlike the one I made on Friday.
Why did the chiken cross the road?
[Moderator – Because it was dependent on its uncle Victor for moral support.]
To retun to Mistra since the the development has been rejected and the land’s value fell back to a few thousand EUROS.
As a Pn supporter, I feel betrayed by the behaviour of JPO especially the denying of what he wrote black on white. If he’s man enough, tonight the headlines of all the news bulettins will be his resignation.
[Moderator – My elve-(sic)-seeking antennae are on high alert.]
The New York mayor resigned after he was caught up in a prostitution ring. That was the decent thing to do (resigning, not the prostitution ring that is).
If JPO has really lied and misled the public he should do the decent thing and resign from parliament if he has any dignity. Bringing his constituents into it is a non-starter of an argument as many probably voted for him out of sympathy as they thought he was being set up by MLP. If PN and/or the authorities find that he is guilty or lying he should be a man and resign. Let us however wait for the end of this sage before we comment.JPO today on di-ve has once again claimed that he is innocent.
[Moderator – Your parentheses show where your doubts about your own moral convictions lie. The Mayor of New York is Michael Bloomberg. My guess is that you mean ex-Governor Eliot Spitzer, who was a patron of a criminal organisation and paid $80,000 for its services over several years. Jeffrey is being accused of failing to acknowledge that someone wanted to build an outhouse in a field next to one of the most polluted beaches in Malta.]
Jo Said you can still knock on other doors like AN, Norman Lowell or Emy Bezzina parties,they might believe some of the things you say, but for us your comments won’t make your credibility come back since it has long been lost and flushed away.
Cirio! to you and Woods! … we made it without you! Bye! Bye!
Mod do not try to lessen what JPO has, allegedly at this stage, done. Mistra being a polluted beach does not make this situation any better. It is ODZ and listed as a potential Natura 2000 site. Such reasoning is nearly as sad as your saying that it is better to build such a disco in Mistra than in St. Julians. I really hope that Gonzi does not listen to people like you when he draws up his environmental agenda for the next 5yrs as your reasoning is straight out of the 1980s Lorry Sant school of screwing Green Areas.
Jeffrey is being accused of:
1. Lying about what he knew about the application in the first place.
2. Having signed a document that contradicts what he claimed to know about the project.
3. Is now being accused of actually exerting pressure to get the permit granted. Which if true and knowing it is ODZ etc. is the worst offence of them all.
If 1 or more of the above is proved to be true I’d find it unbelievable that anyone would not think that the decent thing for JPO to do would be to resign. JPO won a lot of admiration for his stance on the proposed golf courses, the cement plant and other environmental issues. He would lose it all and more…….
[Moderator – No, but it would help correct your perspective. I do not own any schoolbooks by Lorry Sant. I am not an adviser to Lawrence Gonzi.]
Now we are calling it an ‘outhouse next to a polluted beach’? Well JPO could have just said so from the beginning. Don’t worry MEPA the Natura 2000 nomination is a waste. Go on give us another disco.
[Moderator – Yes, an outhouse – because that is the only freestanding construction in an open-air disco. The nomination is not just a waste, but a complete farce when the valley ecosystem is being upset by farming and the bay is being polluted by fish farms.]
Anthony Cassar: Shouldn’t you be busy on the assembly line getting ready for next Christmas? In your tea break you can always use the comment generator kindly supplied by the site moderator.
Moderator I suggest you read the auditor’s report on the case and find out about the processes and criteria the DCC board “overlooked” before issuing the permit illegally.
One of them was an EIA. Anyway seeing that it is so straightforward that you’ve done one two sentences I am sure they will now issue the permit since a fish farm and some bad farming practices has made it OK for a disco to be built ODZ.
Bootroom: That’s an interesting point. Fishfarms don’t qualify as ‘biodiversity’. Can Mistra be a member of the Natura 2000 network, fishfarm, bad farming practices, pollution and all?
Victor’s Nephew,
Can you ask your uncle why he didn’t show up at Castille?
He asked me to show up, I did, he didn’t!
Shame
David Buttigieg: He counted his chickens before they hatched.
Seems we are losing track here boys and girls. If I’m not mistaken, we were not talking about whether this development (and others) should take place in Mistra or not, but whether (1) MEPA DCC went against all and issued a permit against better judgement and against recommendations and (2) whether and to what extent JPO knew about this development, whether or not he exerted pressure on MEPA to issue the relevant permits, etc. etc..
Were it for me, I would leave beautiful Mistra as it is, and no development should be allowed. I find it to be an excellent place where to go with my car at night and make merry… JOKING!!!!
Isma, who’s that lady behind Arnie? Marie-Louise Coleiro?
I’m sorry but i cannot agree with the point of view that an MP is answerable only to his voters.
Surely the reputation and honour of the House of Parliament is also at stake here. Is it not enough that this institution is already with people of questionable repute, should we now also accept somebody who has been caught with his hand very visibly in the cookie jar as it were?
Technically Daphne is correct, but morally I for one feel very uncomfortable with JPO’s presence in parliament, especially after reading this report in today’s Times:
“The Sunday Times reported that government officials and planning board members who approved the Mistra development have told police investigating the case that Dr Pullicino Orlando had urged them to “keep an eye” on and facilitate the application process.
In a police statement seen by The Sunday Times, Dr Pullicino Orlando is said to have started calling about the application a few months before it was approved, on behalf of someone called Dominic.”
How can I even begin to believe that someone like JPO is ready to deal with the ethical and moral issues that are the basis of our laws?
It is true that Gonzi is in a quandary as technically he cannot force JPO to resign, however it behoves the PN to put all the pressure it can on the man, if nothing else from a sense of decency.
Let us not try to defend the indefensible through the use of legal argument. The man should fall on his own sword before he commits the party to a similar fate in five years time.
[Moderator – If members of parliament are expelled simply because their presence puts the prime minister in a moral quandary, then we might as well abandon parliamentary democracy completely.]
Dear uncle Victor, why didn’t you show up at Castille and stood up David Buttigieg?
I asked him. My guess is that he did not vote for PN and is not a hypocrite who pretends otherwise. Definitely he did a mistake like a lot of others did throughout this campaign and all the previous ones by predicting victory. Well now we know what a Photo Finish is and next time round people will wait until the votes are counted before claiming victory or falling in despair.
Sorry don’t follow. Are you saying that we should not expect moral integrity from our MPs? Or that we cannot find 65 people with moral integrity to represent us? Also this is man who essentially misled his leader and his party, who did the decent thing and backed him all the way.
An MP should have the decency to resign if he or she is caught lying. I seem to remember Clinton being dragged over the coals over what was essentially lying about a personal pecadillo. (true he did not resign, but his second term in office, sealed the democrats fate -and ours- for the following ten years – is this what the PN want, to sow the seeds of defeat in their first weeks of office?) And are we supposed to accept an MP who first vaunts his green credentials whilst at the same time exploiting what little bit of countryside we still have on this island?
I repeat, legally Daphne may be right, but this sad story does nothing to bolster the credibility of parliament or MP’s. The man should go before he causes more harm to his party, assuming of course he has any allegiance to it!
[Moderator – We should expect our MPs to abide by the law. But it is neither moral nor legal for the prime minister to expel a member of parliament from the house simply because his presence there is offensive. That would be the equivalent of an elected monarchy with parliament as the royal court.]
I heard that JPO was about to organise a meeting for all those who voted for him, to ask them if he should resign. As has rightly been said here, only electors have a right to demand their mandate back. However, when the required number of invitations were printed, 5,125, someone in his entourage pointed out a technical problem: how does one determine WHO actually voted JPO? I mean, not that one is issued with a certificate confirming his presence. If anyone can give a helping hand for a solution to this, he or she would be most welcome.
[Moderator – There is only one solution: a general election in 2013.]
Moderator, as one of JPO’s constituents and voters I wish to state my belief that he should resign without further delay. Not only has he hoodwinked me and doubtlessly countless other voters but he came extremely close to costing the PN the election and condemning Malta to 5 years of MLP rule under AS. JPO has the doubtful honour of being the person who completely left to his own devices almost achieved for the MLP what the whole lejber party machine, ONE productions, AS, Jaysin, Chalie d-DNA, Michael l-Iljun, and E(manuel) Cuschieri have strived to achieve since 1998!
[Moderator – There are two options: begin work on your homemade guillotine and prepare to storm Castille; or just don’t vote for JPO in the next general election.]
Although I will not defend JPO for what he did or didn’t do with respect to the Mistra case (I still cannot understand why Alfred Sant didn’t face JPO when the latter presented himself at PBS for Alfred Sant’s press conference. Is Alfred Sant so inept as a politician that even when holding such a trump card he is afraid to use it for fear of making a mess out of it just the same?), I find it quite rich, to put it mildly, that MLP supporters are so adamant in pressing for JPO’s resignation due to the Mistra “scandal” when they were led, up to a week ago, by a man who was still insisting that he won a referendum when every sensible person in the world knows that he (Alfred Sant) had in fact lost (the referendum).
Why didn’t you (labour supporters) press for Alfred Sant’s resignation way back in 2003 since he lied so blatantly to all and sundry?
One last question to all the Lavieras out there. Who won the 2003 referendum? I think a correct answer to this question is inevitable if the MLP wants to ever win an election. I know it’s a tough one. To answer it correctly you have to discredit your much beloved ex-leader and accept the fact that Alfred Sant was MLP’s major liability. Hope you find some luck with the election of your new leader.
Would I be forgiven if I had to use the word “arrogance” to refer to the way someone called “Moderator” is replying to the remarks regarding JPO’s moral legitimacy as an MP? All of which, except mine, are coming from people who voted PN? Just observe carefully, dear PN voters. And this is only one week after you put your preferences next to the 1920´s Maduma symbol on your ballot paper.
[Moderator – I have arranged for 12 roses and a perfume-scented voucher for a full-body massage for people with sensitive skin to be hand-delivered to you in the morning.]
Farrugia should stop preening. IF JPO managed to hoodwink so many people and get so many votes it is because AS has cried wolf once too often.
For the great strategist As thinks himself to be, he still hasn’t figured out the packof emotions, instinct and intellect called the human being, and that is why he lost the lection
Cacopardo’s eyebrows are outstanding.
@Albert Farrugia : the great minds (past and present) behind the 1920´s Maduma symbol have placed Malta in Europe, we have economic growth, stability, you criticizing and expressing yourself freely on the internet and .. most importantly we have our minds at rest for not having communism and years of doom and gloom.
wow, my typing really went haywire on that last comment! sorry! :)
Albert Farrugia: Feeling menaced by the moderator’s comments, are you? You’d do well to reread them and, this time,understand them. It would be a very dangerous situation were the prime minister to have the power to ‘sack’ a member of parliament. The ‘authority’ you assume that the Prime Minister has over MP Jeffrey Pullicino Orlando is the same ‘authority’ he has over all MPs i.e. none – and thank heavens for that. If he were empowered to force out Jeffrey Pullicino Orlando he would be equally empowered to force out any member of the house. That would open the way to the despotism that parliamentary democracy is supposed to prevent.
Victor Lav … Sorry, Albert Farrugia,
You are desperately pathetic. Are you trying to convince us we voted wrongly? Just because we voted for PN and saved Malta from the ghastly scenario of Sant as PM?
We are PROUD we did it. We are PROUD that thanks to us Malta has seen the end of the man with the cheap wig who had the sheer gall to try and keep us out of Europe.
We are PROUD that we kept the party that has “no regrets” for it’s brutal regime in the 70s and 80s, in opposition for AT LEAST 5 more years.
Get over it, Sant and MLP lost, PN, Malta and all our children (yours too if you have any) WON.
This whole JPO thing is all the product of a broken marraige. Im sure cases like these happen all the time both when labour and pn are in government (im not saying its right). The only difference being that when pn are in charge certain people benefit and when mlp benefit others benefit.
What puzzles me is how nobody asked what role Marlene Pulicino has to play in this who conveniently turned out for MLP. Is this a case of JPO being in the wrong or something which wouldnt have come out in the open if a wife didnt want to get one over her husband?
Whatever the answer JPO was elected by the people in 2 districts which is saying something when ex ministers has to be co-opted.
Another thing nobody has mentioned is MLP sorry excuse to use the reception class as a way to improve education. Im sure that if MLP was in government they would have bragged about decreasing the unemployment – sure..but they wouldnt have mentioned that they would have decreased the work pool by a whole year of school leavers.
And where was AS going to get that extra year of work from? was he going to increase the pension age?
[Moderator – Joe Mizzi will use special Maltese oil to develop an anti-ageing ointment.]
Albert Farrugia: In case you still find the moderator’s comments to be too difficult to grasp, here’s a little something that might help: http://www.amazon.com/How-Develop-Your-Sense-Humor/dp/0766160203/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205864272&sr=8-1
The sad thing about the election results is that it showed how many people out there actually don’t see the light. And I am not saying its a ”Gonzi” light or anything stupid like that, its that so many voted for Alfred Sant regardless of the price they(and the rest of us) would have paid for, so dearly.
JPO & Co are a different story. They let themselves down, they let their constituents down and they led Gonzi down. None of us deserved that, especially Gonzi. But as they say in gay Paris, cé la vie.
@ Corinne & David
I thought there was only one Chicken…
@ Corinne Vella
re: the development of Humour…
One cannot develop something that isn’t there in the first place.
:-)
Has anybody bothered to download the auditor’s report, and to read it? Nothing in that report (and I’ve read it all so I know – http://www.maltastar.com facilitates the document search process) makes any reference to JPO – at least so far. And the auditor is very careful to stick rigidly to his terms of reference. And let’s not get carried away with newspaper reports like “he phoned up members of the board.” Now that stinks, and I don’t like it either. I don’t like it that JPO did that when he gave the impression – to Gonzi and to the electorate – that he knew little to nothing about the application – and I don’t like the fact that he phoned up people about it. But this is the real world, my firends, and like it or not, everybody who is a somebody in construction development (and I mean everybody – architects, engineers, contractors, members of parliament, businessmen, technical experts, hoteliers, and yes even politicians from BOTH sides of the house – make phone calls to everyone and everywhere. I’ve been through a number of application processes in my years, and this is the norm, or as we say in Maltese, il-prassi. So let’s not suddenly become kattolici izjed mill-papa and start demonising JPO for doing what everyone in this country does. Was he right to do so? Of course not? Is he the only one? DEFINITELY NOT. So somebody still has to explain to me what JPO did wrong. My personal guess is that he fell for the green stuff – money. Some entrepreneur must have offered him the opportuntiy to lease out his land for something much more than a song, this mosy have attracted his attention (money always has its magnetic effect, on all of us), and this same entrepreneur may well have even asked JPO to put in a phone call or two, asking board members who he knew to keep an eye-opener for the application. DCC A members where the ones that approved the outline development, subject to a number of provisions (always the case in these situations), and we are not being made aware of the reasons why DCC A approved the outline development, or the provisions attached to it. I advocate more reading, and more patience. That said, I think JPO is being made a scapegoat of our society, which is ALL based on WHO WE KNOW.
@Corinne…..I see, so what this means is that the Maltese Conservative Party, locally called Nationlist, is not a party at all but a collection of 35 elected MPs. There is no such thing as a party code of ethics. No such thing as a unified policy as regards the behaviour of Conservative MPs. Nothing. They are just individuals. No wonder then that some of us think that those 35 persons are united only in the defence of their own power!
And the leader of the PN is someone without authority. This is really really interesting.
[Moderator – I know this is difficult for you to understand, coming from a party that maintains totalitarian control over its members lives through a Board of Vigilance and Discipline. In fact, here is the Board’s rulebook:
Rule #1 Walking through airport security with a gun – fine by us;
Rule #2 Wearing socks and sandals – encouraged;
Rule #3 Criticism of the leader – expulsion and social exile;]
The gist of Charles Spiteri’s post. Well, so what, some money going this way, some money going that way, what’s the big deal? Chill out! This is Malta, we phone people don’t we? This is how we do things. No-one wants Il-BIDLA. We want to keep on this system. It’s natural and cannot be changed.
Actually it reminds me of the former socialist leader in Italy, Bettino Craxi. When faced with accusations of illegal funding of his party, his reply was, “Well, all the other parties obtain money that way, why not we?”
PN’s slogan in 1987: VALURI. Since many here remember the violence of the 80s I am sure they remember that slogan well.
Surely, trying to defend JPO further can only do the PN further damage – and trying to equate not filling in VAT forms with taking bribes gives a skewered sense of morality. It’s true that JPO is answerable to those thousands who voted him and nobody else – and it is to them that he owes an explanation for lying through his teeth in his lust for power. But in a way, it’s also sad that unless the findings of an inquiry lead to a charge and he’s indicted through criminal proceedings, he’ll be laughing at ALL taxpayers in five years’ time – because they’ll be subsidising his parliamentary pension.
So now Daphne has come up with this reasoning: as an MP, you are elected to Parliament by your constituents and are only answerable to them. So what is the party there for? Answers please.
[Moderator – Although I’m sure Daphne is flattered that you credit her with the invention of parliamentary democracy, I think you’ll find that Iceland beat her to it by just over a thousand years.]
and it wasn’t only AD which called for him to resign his seat, there was Labour and Zminijietna too – more than half the voting population combined together – the absolute majority of voters in fact – something which the PN didn’t get after all!
[Moderator – The Labour Party, which you described as representing close to half the voting population, called for the subsidy of oil up to $1,000 a barrel. An idea that comes from the Labour Party isn’t necessarily a good idea.]
Corinne I do not know if it qualifies as a Natura 2000 site with the aforementioned fish farms, pollution and farming practices. I’d think that a study would have to be undertaken and if the area falls short in one or more aspects the way forward would be to clean it up and not to say ah feck it and open it up for development. If we are making an effort to rehabilitate Maghteb then I am sure this would be a more straightforward taks. Also Natura 2000 or not this development is ODZ. We have a structure plan containing development zones in Malta and we should stick to it.
By any chance Daphne, are you defending JPO? Of course he should resign from parliament, he’s been proven guilty. He’s been proven corrupt heq him…so who should want such a person representing him???? Worse than that, he not only lied to the media (in tears), but also to the PM and all the PN who defended him all the way.
Now everyone mentions the Alfred Sant, Mangion/Vella, Mugliett and other stories, but these people can stay since no one has yet proved them guilty of wrongdoing no matter how hard the media try…but this man JPO, well, he’s finished. You still defending him now Daphne? Speaking of zero-tolerance…oooohh I forgot, who needs zero-tolerance?
[Moderator – And in which court was JPO found guilty?]
Moderator: I asked a question to illuminate myself on parliamentary democracy Nationalist style. I used to have great respect and admiration for JPO but now I’m so disappointed in him. If I vote for him, I expect him at least not to lie to me in my face. Apart from the fact that the development would be worth a cool Lm 3 million at the least. No wonder he was working the phone like mad! And that was in The Sunday Times not Maltastar!
And if his constituents like to be lied at in their face than that’s a true reflection of Maltese society. Maybe quite a few laqx from Zebbug, Rabat, Mgarr, Mtarfa and Dingli actually voted for him after all.
Now an MTA consultant has resigned over the JPO scandal. Any opinions from our defenders of democracy?
@Charles Spiteri
I too have downloaded and read the auditor’s report, and thus, agree perfectly with what you said. Everyone would like to live in Utopia but Utopia doesn’t exist, and as long as the human race continues to inhabit the earth, we will have such dealings involving poeple in varying degrees of power.
What I don’t like in all this was that I was one of the thousands who were at the Fosos during the last two PN pre-election meetings, and I applauded heartily JPO, thinking he was another ‘miskin’ he fell foul of AS’s mud-slinging.
It seems that all of us (more so, those who voted him) were taken for a bit of a ride…
I can’t wait to hear what JPO has to say now.
Moderator, what are we going to do with those who voted Labour? Shoot them, lock them up somewhere in the Gulag? They really shouldn’t be allowed to vote again next time!
[Moderator – The only people here who are calling for a conviction without trial are the ones arguing for the expulsion from parliament of a democratically elected member who has not broken any law. Try to keep things in perspective.]
Oooohhh come on, put on your reading glasses, the auditor’s report says it all. And now the PM wants to take up the recommendations. Need anymore proof? This is your wake up call
From Maltastar:
In reply to questions sent by maltastar.com on Tuesday afternoon, the MTA said that it was George Micallef who was responsible for sending Mepa a report on behalf of MTA to justify the proposed Mistra development.
The Mepa Auditor, in his investigative report on the case, published on Monday said: “The report of the MTA (tourism authority) definitely had a bearing on the decision of the DCC. Why did the MTA choose to write a very long report to try to justify the proposed development?”
The MTA chairman said on Tuesday that the MTA was not aware of the report. Sam Mifsud said: “The MTA was not aware of these circumstances. However, in the light of the Mepa auditor’s report, Mr Micallef tendered his resignation yesterday (Monday), which resignation was accepted.”
My comments: 1) Is this the norm in Govt.’ish entities that staff send reports to and fro and the boss doesn’t know about them? I work in a private entity and if I send over any kind of report w/o my boss knowing, I think my head would have rolled ages ago! 2) It seems that there is an urgent need for some hefty cleanup to be done in certain areas. Gonzi’s takeover of MEPA under his wing now seems to be a providential move; are we to await a massive purge in the coming days?
giggs11 on Mar 18, 2008:
“Moderator, as one of JPO’s constituents and voters I wish to state my belief that he should resign without further delay.”
JPO cannot resign “without further delay”: he hasn’t even been sworn in as an MP. Even if he chose to resign he can only do it once Parliament has been convened.
Hey, hey, Jason Spiteri – hold on now. Nowhere has there been an allegation that JPO took bribes or did anything criminal. The allegations are all about lack of ethics. The police were only involved – in my view, the prime minister was wrong to involve them given that there was obviously no criminal case – because of the last-minute hysteria and pressures of the election. Looking back calmly, things could have been handled much better, and I don’t mean only from an electoral point of view.
Harry’s debacle was definitely a resignation matter. He has a criminal conviction that translates into a prison sentence. He has put in a plea for a presidential pardon, and he has kept all of this hidden from the electorate. Now Harry certainly has a post from which he can and should resign – that of party leader. But he has promised only to OFFER to resign, at the next general meeting – this despite failing at the polls for the FIFTH general election in a row.
Albert Farrugia (and by the way, your presence in this blog is most welcome, because different views are crucial to debate) – yes, parliament is made up of ‘individual MPs’ rather than parties. They are only divided into parties as long as they choose to be. Should all 69 of them decide to jettison their loyalty to the parties tomorrow, we would still have a parliament and they would still have seats. Parliamentary democracy is designed to elect representatives of the people, and not representatives of the political parties. The division into political parties is there to make for greater efficiency through organisation into groups, but the essence of the system remains dependent (and rightly so) on the individual.
Calling for the resignation of an MP, or putting pressure on the party leader to force him to resign, creates a very dangerous situation. Whatever their behaviour, MPs are and remain answerable only to their constituents in the final analysis. Their personal or public behaviour is irrelevant. If people want to vote for X no matter how he behaves, then they have a right to vote for him/her and have him/her represent them in parliament. We have seen this before, after all, with the election of several MPs on both sides of the house through the years. If people want to vote for them, who are we to judge? The parties’ candidate selection process could be stricter, I agree, but then again, they might not wish to avoid selecting, or to de-select, somebody who is popular with voters. For example, I objected to the inclusion, in the PN list, of a candidate who had just been thrown out of the house by his wife, who has a young baby, when she discovered that he had been having an affair with a very prominent woman who has Labour sympathies, and whose brother is a Labour MP (hence the cover-up on the Labour side). My argument was that people should know exactly what they were voting for, because they wouldn’t take kindly to such behaviour and it was unfair to present him as acceptable when it was clear that he wasn’t. Fortunately, he wasn’t elected.
I am not a big fan of Edward Debono, but I do tend to think laterally. You can conclude,as PN party analysts have done, that JPO nearly cost them the election and even caused a loss of votes in the last week. I am wary of this conclusion, because it may very well be – and the evidence lies partly in the way he was elected sparat on TWO districts, that he actually contributed to the victory. My gut feeling, and this is usually fairly accurate, is that people who were thinking of not voting PN actually did so, giving their No. 1 to JPO, in reaction to the bullying he received at the hands of an entire political party (something with which I can identify), and particularly after that spectacle in the PBS studios. Let us not forget that it was thanks to Jeffrey – whatever the merits of his case – that Sant was exposed in that delicate penultimate week of the campaign as a bully and a coward, cowering beneath the Crosscraft logo in the studios and calling for the police to protect him from an angry fellow MP. We shouldn’t just criticise JPO – thinking laterally, we also have a lot to be grateful to him for.
The problem with MLP is the way they put things. They tried to convince us to vote for MLP since someone in the government did something wrong in this case JPO!
First of all, these things should have come up during the five years and not in the last 5 days of an election. So that’s the first big mistake!
Secondly if I knew earlier, I would have just not voted for JPO if they truly convince me that he is wrong but I still vote for the party, since MLP has not convinced me that it was ready to government!
So I am still proud of voting PN in government, JPO just have to face the music now!
and NO things don’t work like that .. if one did wrong then all the party / government has to pay and is responsible! That’s pure non sense!
El Diablo – please don’t try to justify the failure of Charles Mangion and Karmenu Vella to declare for income tax purposes several thousands of liri in earnings every year – at a time, may I point out, when they were ministers in Alfred Sant’s cabinet, and not just ordinary MPs. That was a far, far more serious (and criminal) transgression than anything that JPO did, and yet they are still swanning around unhindered and uncriticised. Yes, they cleared things up retrospectively, but this does not wipe out the fact that WHEN THEY WERE CABINET MINISTERS THEY CHEATED ON INCOME TAX.
Daphne,
I’m supposed to be working from home, but your blog these last weeks has proved itself to be very addictive!
One question – If the MEPA report was published before the election, what would you think would have happened with JPO’s votes and even with the election result?
Albert Farrugia, Gerald et al
I want to make it clear that I certainly do NOT regret voting PN. Although it appears as if I was wrong about JPO, I know from past experience (since 1971 in fact) that I am right about voting PN back into power. Listening to laburisti like you talk about corruption….huh talk about the kettle. Have you never heard of Lorry Sant, import licences, green areas, colour televisions, telephones? All the things mentioned were intrinsically linked to corruption in the Labour years. And you dare to talk about democracy Gerald? Where were you when the Times was burnt down? Where were you when iz-Zwieten (armed with guns)togther with the State Police invaded the University campus? Where were you when the brave Colonel burst in on Parliamnent? Where were you when students were beaten by police and fuselli in Valletta simply for protesting? Where were you when the wife of a tv preseneter who does not have an agenda appeared dedecked with a red rosette after the 1981 election result was read out and the MLP logo appeared so brightly splashed against the TV screens showing the State owned TV station? You have the affrontery to talk about Democracy Sir… you are a cad Sir!
I am correct in understanding that the NON-completion of the 37 VAT returns also means that the VAT itself (if any) remains unpaid on all 37 such returns?
is it possible to send a photo via these comments? I’ve been sent a hilarious one showing the new MLP leader…..
[Moderator – Here’s a useful site. You can upload the photo and it will produce a link to it, which you can use in your comments.]
Seems to me like Jeffrey knew exactly what was being planned for his land and not only did he not try to put a stop to it but he also tried to help out.
Victor’s Nephew – You said “With regards to my Unlce (sic), I am free to make my own conclusions”.
Whether or not your uncle is the Victor who has been absent from this blog (under his own name, at least) for a little while, the fact that you call yourself “Victor’s Nephew” means that you yourself are not very independent-minded …
You could start by having some faith in yourself before you try to pass your ideas on to others, selling them as being ideas of “Victor’s Nephew”. Using your own name might make your ideas just a little more credible.
Give Victor’s nephew a break Amanda ..at least he doesn’t refer to himself as The Nephew of Victor … :-) :-) Ding Dong eh Daph?
Does anyone really believe that Jeffrey did not know about the Nightclub plans on his land in Mistra? What about reports that Jeffrey phoned people to check on the progress of the permit? I smell something worrying going on. Hope it becomes clear soonest possible.
Mela, I will reproduce it as I recd it:
HOT NEWS: THE MLP IN A QUICK DECISION EARLY THIS MORNING HAS APPOINTED A NEW LEADER! SEE FLASH NEWS REPORT BELOW.
I believe he is the best of the lot!!!
http://bayimg.com/KajfCAABD
Click on the image to remove ads and view full-size.
Moderator – Why did the chicken cross the road?
To seek refuge under Uncle Victor’s wing
Put a sock on what? :)
So Gerald Fenech disappears from the blog abruptly after insulting a few of us. Just as suddenly, a new “Gerald” appears. Hmmmm!
David Buttigieg / Corinne – So Victor’s nephew IS Victor Laiviera’s nephew, after all! Ha, ha! Why does he consider his uncle so important that he has to refer to himself as “Victor’s nephew”?
Hmm.. hypothetical question here.. what would happen if JPO were to retain his seat in parliament which is of course his by right, but as an independent MP? Could he? Would he? Can you imagine what repercussions this could have?
Maybe because it’s Victor himself.
[Moderator – Cue Jaws theme.]
David Buttigieg / Corinne – Maybe he was in Valletta after all, but with a white “surrender” flag, and not a red one as promised
Jaysin married?! to himself imma…
Moderator – It’s pretty simple: (Without going into the merits of JPO’s case) the people who think that the prime minister has the right to force an MP to resign are the same people who think that the prime minister should have silenced the students during the infamous university debate.
With that sort of mentality seemingly being a uniting factor between MLP supporters, I dare say once again “allahares jerga jitla’ l-Labour!”
Amrio – Maybe it’s Sant with a new wig
Observer – You said “This whole JPO thing is all the product of a broken marraige.” Maybe it has more to do with unrequited love (AS’s) :)
I agree that one should wait until all investigations are concluded. Where I beg to differ from some of the above comments is that in politics one does not necessarily have to be found guilty of committing a crime to resign. For example three or four years ago, David Blunkett, a prominent minister in Tony Blair’s cabinet, felt he should resign because an email asking for the visa application of his ex-lover’s nanny to be “speeded up” was discovered. There was no conclusive evidence linking him to this e-mail, but he felt that he should resign because the allegations were damaging to his government. (He had the opportunity to make a comeback the following year). It all depends at what level one wants to set ethical standards.
Gerald (Fenech) – You said “Maybe quite a few LAQX from Zebbug, Rabat, Mgarr, Mtarfa and Dingli actually voted for him after all.”
By using that word, you just gave your identity away!
“a very prominent woman who has Labour sympathies, and whose brother is a Labour MP” – I wonder if she’ll be resigning from her prominent post for sleeping with the enemy :)
Gigs11 – “And you dare to talk about democracy Gerald? Where were you when the Times was burnt down? Where were you when iz-Zwieten (armed with guns)togther with the State Police invaded the University campus? Where were you when the brave Colonel burst in on Parliamnent? Where were you when students were beaten by police and fuselli in Valletta simply for protesting? Where were you when the wife of a tv preseneter who does not have an agenda appeared dedecked with a red rosette after the 1981 election result was read out and the MLP logo appeared so brightly splashed against the TV screens showing the State owned TV station? You have the affrontery to talk about Democracy Sir… you are a cad Sir!”
Maybe Gerald was too busy listening to classical music to notice all these “happenings”.
Dear Moderator, without entering into the merits of any particular case, a MP does not only represent his constituents. This is a narrow view of the matter. A MP is elected primarily to legislate and he or she legislates for the whole country. As is well-known, laws enacted by the Legislative bind the Executive to execute them and the Judiciary to apply them. A MP is, therefore, responsible to the entire nation not only to his constituents. MP’s, as members of the highest institution of the land, must be trustworthy and beyond reproach in their public life if they are to carry out their function as the nation expects them to. And the entire nation, not only the electors of particular constituencies, has an interest to see that each member of the legislative without exception (since they legislate collegially)can be trusted to enact the laws most conducive to the common good. MP’s, in other words, are answerable to the nation.
I also do not agree that a MP does not cross the floor because of his integrity. Again without going into the merits of any particular case, it may be precisely because a MP wants to maintain his integrity that he may find it necessary “to cross the floor” or give his allegiance to a party different from the one under whose ticket he was elected if he feels conscience-bound to do so. This is precisely why a MP is not bound to vote according to party directives, even if we all know that party whips pressure MP’s to vote according to party policy.
Amanda Mallia on Mar 18, 2008
I am correct in understanding that the NON-completion of the 37 VAT returns also means that the VAT itself (if any) remains unpaid on all 37 such returns?
Ooops – Before the vultures come out to correct my typing error …. The above should have been “Am I … “
freethinker: Aside from not re-electing an MP, what mechanisms exist for removing an MP from parliament?
I find the comment by Unsettled very interesting. Are some already getting worried about the flimsiness of a one seat majority? Hmmmmm…..gonna be a bit of a rough ride, right?
But dont worry, the Conservative Party knows who to deal with such a situation. Losing power is not one of its weaknesses!
I am rather more worried, from my side, that somehow some Labour MP might be tempted to look for greener grass….
Daphne & Moderator – It just crossed my mind that you should both be nominated for a “Gieh ir-Repubblika” medal, for helping 120,000+ people relieve their tension on your blog in the tense hours before the election result was made official. :)
In answer to Daphne.
Theoretically it is correct to say that MPs are elected on an individual basis. But the parliamentary system has now evolved and nowadays, in practice, people vote for candidates with the implicit understanding that they represent their parties, and the programme that party is presenting. In the UK, electoral districts elect only one MP, namely the one who gets a simple majority, not even an absolute one. Therefore each party fields ONLY ONE candidate in each district. Thus, if you want to vote Conservative, you have to give your vote to the Conservative candidate in your district, whether you like him or not. Theoretically you are giving your vote to a candidate, but only insofar as he is representing the party you want to vote for. In Malta we also have an electoral system in which, theoreticaly the vote goes to individuals, but in practice electors know they are giving their vote to a party, in the hope that this party gains a majority of votes to govern. If, let’s say, a candidate elected in the interests of the MLP crosses the floor, although this is legally possible, he/she would be betraying the trust MLP electors gave in him/her. A political party, by the very fact that it is a political party, requires its MPs to behave as a unit and to follow party discipline, since they were all elected under one programme. So, if an MP behaves in any way which might jeopardise the Party’s good repute, that MP has no place left in the Party. Now in JPO’s case, staying on as an MP while excluded from the party would mean that the Government loses its majority in parliament, even though Labour wont gain it. Its that simple.
So madame Marie Benoit cried her eyes out and toasted not just for one lijder but for 2 of them now – Alfred and Harry. No wonder that Harry was clubbing with his newly found friends in Naxxar.
Marie Benoit, Alfred and Harry. That’s an interesting triangle.
Pamela Hansen was shocked and annoyed that there were many celebrations in the streets, that traffic to Valletta was disrupted and that the PN organized a mass meeting on Tuesday. (MT March 12) I am sure that she would not have minded a few Labour carcades though.
What happened to the DJ, Xandir Malta, Bla Agenda guy? He missed his column on the Times last Thursday. I was so keen to read it. Actually after the election results I was drooling to read the first columns of Benoit, Hamilton, Hansen, Licari, Harry etc etc.
By the way, madame Hansen informed us that the media is not biased. For godness sake, the MLP have a whole TV station which won the station of the year, or whatever title it was, plus Smash TV. And what about the numerous columnists that they have posted in the various English language papers. They have not realized one thing though. It’s not quantity which counts but quality and effectiveness. It’s useless to have a thousand Benoits, Hansens, Hamiltons etc, when all these columnists cannot match the effectiveness and the quality of a single column written by Daphne.
Amrio – “One question – If the MEPA report was published before the election, what would you think would have happened with JPO’s votes and even with the election result?”
I have no way of knowing that, but I think that people would have reacted negatively to Sant’s political opportunism in brandishing a case like this as an electoral tactic in the last week of the campaign, rather than doing the responsible thing and conveying the information directly to the prime minister when he received it.
Dumbledore – ‘put a sock in it’ means ‘shut up’.
‘Unsettled’ – or he could do what the grotesque Wenzu Mintoff did in 1989, when he was a Labour MP, and offer his seat to AD. That should put Bushy-Brows, the former Italian MP and Harry Savonarola in a quandary!
Dear Corinne Vella, To my knowledge, the Constitution is silent as to the manner of removal of a MP from Parliament, once he is qualified to be a MP and is elected legally. A mechanism of removal, therefore, seems not to exist – possibly, no power may remove a representative of the people except the people themselves in the next election. I would think that if the House passes a vote of no confidence in the MP, s/he would be under great pressure to resign. Interestingly, a member of the House of Commons cannot resign and if he wishes to resign, the strategem is used of appointing him to a nominal public office and, since holders of public office cannot be MP’s, he would then be disqualified from being a member.
AS I have already stated very early in this blog, as far as I can deduce up till now, JPO is as yet only liable for a political mistake which carries a big burden, which in my opinion, should lead him into resigning voluntarily from a MP, pending the completion of investigations. Some blogger/s here have mentioned bribes, which hypothesis has not even been alleged, let alone proven. One has to await the ensuing police investigations to be able to make further comments about the case.
In this blog there are a number of labourites posing as repenting JPO voters, who should now tell us what they think about former MLP ministers who have been accused and proven with false tax returns, evading income tax, and adding insult to injury, they have sought shelter behind a provision in income tax regulations in correcting their tax return and (perhaps, I’m not sure), paying a nominal penalty, only because their fraud happened to see the light of day. Regarding this case AS said that he has seen documented evidence that they are in order with the income tax dept. Iss…. mur obsor Fred. Tafu xi tkun misthija!!! RESIGN AS WELL.
IL-laburisti on this blog or anywhere else for that matter, need not tell us nationalists, who should or should not resign. They have so much dirt under their carpet, that should make some of their MPs ashamed to have ever existed at all, unless they beg the pardon of the Maltese nation.
I think Daphne is right. JPO cannot be forced to resign by the PN administration, even though he can become an embarassment to the PN and to the PM. He was elected by the voters of the 2 districts and those voters have the final say. In Italy almost one third of the MPs change parties and factions within a legislation of 5 years and nobody dares to ask them to resign, even though they betray the original voters who had voted for them. Same thing goes for certain personalities like Cicciolina etc. Nobody asks them to resign even though they ridicule the institution itself(parliament).
Resignation is a personal decision, and it reflects on that person’s dignity and integrity.
The whole issue is that JPO did something questionable.He did. He leased out his land to a known Labour supporter. This guy is a known operator of a nightclub and he wanted to go “open-air” . His competitors disagreed. They did teir level best to kill the project. And they found a worthy surrogate to do their job. The MLP. Does anyone ask where and from whom did the MLP get the documents AS was so proudly shaking about? How about if if it had to be known that a certain nightclub owner, who unashamedly sought the PN’s help in keeping the bank wolves from taking over his hotel,was instrumental in all this/ Tefa l-Gebla u heba idu. Who was in the smoke filled room plotting JPO’s demise? Who had most to gain? And what about the mass transgressions of MEPA policies expounded by same nightclub owners/s that transformed lower Paceville into Caesar’s exclusive empire? This is all about money and very little to do with politics. Yes, the land belongs to JPO. Yes he leased it to someone for far above its real value. Yes he lobbied on behalf of this someone. So do ALL MP’s, be they MLP or PN . The fact remains that JPO is the man to take a decision. He was a part of the PN victory that kept AS and his merry band of colgate smiles, growling lions and DNA experts out of Government. To this he should have our eternal thanks. He should now consult with his conscience and do what is most honourable in the circumstances. He will find Gonzi supportive of that. And anyway, who in this blog, moderator or not, MLP or PN, has ever smelt his armpits and not found the odour of sweat there, as we say in Maltese? Who is so “pure” as to be able, with all honesty, to throw the first stone? JPO is already suffering. No ministry. Political career hanging by a thread. PN voters angry at him. A messed up personal life, pre permit….. He made a mistake. Should he pay for it over and over again? Mistra is a degraded site because next door to this so called famous site, there is a fully functional restaurant with a large outdoor area.A fish farm that has transformed a knights era battery into an environmental mess. The whole bay smells of fish meal given to the fish. Where is MEPA here? And the MLP? What about the massive over-development against all known MEPA policies going up on the top of the hill? Natura 2000 site my left bloody foot. When MEPA decides to stick its finger out of its arse and do something about the whole area, then yes, Natura 2000 and the rest of the tree-hugging organisations, including the “I chew gum using my a** when I walk” recent convert to the Hdura Party, can come bleating about it. JPO did wrong. Let him decide what to do. and lets not decide for him. He is man enough to do so.
Albert Farrugia: It’s not that simple. Politicians acting solely in the service of the party is only barely acceptable among the unelected. That set up doesn’t transpose to the parliamentary role of the elected.
Freethinker: Thanks for your explanation.
Albert Farrugia: You should read it too.
The choice on 8 March was between Lawrence Gonzi and Alfred Sant. Nothing would have swayed me in voting in any way to help Sant be PM. I’m still having bad dreams that in some way Sant has ended PM. However I am very disgusted at JPO esp the way he used the party to try to convince us he is innocent while actually it seems he is not. Shame on you JPO – you did more than anybody else to make the possibilty of the nightmare Sant becoming PM .
Simon – You said “It’s useless to have a thousand Benoits, Hansens, Hamiltons etc, when all these columnists cannot match the effectiveness and the quality of a single column written by Daphne.”
I’d just like to point out that you forgot to include Claire Bondin – er, I mean Claire Bonello – in the group!
Daphne – I think that Dumbledore was just trying to crack a crude joke
if JPO needs to resign then all those politicians needs to do the same ….c mon people especially MLP how can you dare asking for JPO resignation, then can u please all of you MLP MP do the same ….
in my opinion the JPO thing is not that serious to put him in a scale of corruption etc… let’s be realistic now maybe he wasn’t right but in my eyes he is not a case of national level of corruption i don’t know why all this fuss….
In my view he can continue to contribute to this country as he did a million times before and look at what he did right too, one mistake ( not that big ) doesn’t put him in Lorry sant level for example…..
cmon people grow up and be mature…
and to mention Lorry Sant in Paola they comemmorate him…. gnien lorry sant f’gieh kristu…..
JPO is the killer …Lorry sant the hero….
hmmmmm….change the values please….
MLP, AS & JPO – So now the MLP is claiming to have saved Mistra Valley – how many other ecologically important sites did they ruin in their hey days without the need of the MEPA hussling??? If JPO is so blatantly and foolishly guilty how on earth didn’t AS and the MLP not run away with these elections? Is it a matter of ‘crying wolf’ once again and making beleive AS was lying himself? 5125 first preference votes surely beleived JPO was in fact innocent and that was only on two districts. Why did AS walk away from JPOs challenges? If he did not have the ‘incriminating’ evidence in hand then just why did he open his mouth in the first place. I am sure that JPO will get what he deserves whether he is actually guilty or not because the NP is NOT the MLP thank GOD.
Fuq il-kaz ta Jeffrey Pullicino Orlando nixtieq nghid din biss. Iz-zmien jaghtina parrir.
Safejn naf jien ma ghandniex il-ligi tax-Xarija Malta. Ejja ma nhaggrux persuna qabel naghtuha cans tipprova l-innocenza taghha.
Jien ivvutajt ghal Jeffrey Pullicino Orlando. Emmint fl-innocenza tieghu. Jekk jigi ppruvat bil-kuntrarju nemmen li JPO ghandu jkun ragel biex min jeddu jirrizenja mill-Parlament. Jekk le kif kitbet Daphne l-fiducja bhalma nghatatlu malajr terga’ tittiehidlu lura fi zmien hames snin.
Ejjew naghtu cans.
Daphne, Dumbledore was being naughty when he asked ‘put a sock ON what?’ ;-) He knows exactly what he’s talking about…it’s frat boy humour…probably picked up from Hogwarts eh Dumbledore mate? :-):-)
Albert Farrugia.
“Chill out! This is Malta, we phone people don’t we? This is how we do things. No-one wants Il-BIDLA. We want to keep on this system. It’s natural and cannot be changed.
Actually it reminds me of the former socialist leader in Italy, Bettino Craxi. When faced with accusations of illegal funding of his party, his reply was, “Well, all the other parties obtain money that way, why not we?””
Albert, I really wonder how this didn’t remind how things used to be done during the Lorry Sant minesterial days; or is it you’d rather give us an example of corruption distant from the MLP,s ‘narrative’?
Albert, you are making several fallacious assumptions. The British electoral system is completely different to the Maltese electoral system. Their system is based on political parties, and ours is not. We elect individuals. The British elect political parties. In today’s post, I reproduce the constitutional articles that spell out what disqualifies a person from standing for election, and what makes an MP’s position untenable. You should also know that the person ‘in charge’ of members of parliament – whatever party they come from – is not the party leader but the Speaker of the House. If any MP presents his or her resignation, he or she must do so in writing not to the party leader but to the Speaker.
Before anyone ask JPO to resign or go into the details of how someone can get rid of him; before we go on accusing him of anything under the sun, can someone illuminate me (perhaps JPO himself) what were the questions he woulf have asked AS if the latter did not chicken out? I am very curios to know if, perhaps one of the questions in this saga involves the name of another prominent politician from the MLP side? I am dying to know, because, for those who would like to be reminded, JPO has already named names and nobody asked the two ELECTED LABOUR MP’s to resign yet. Or is it a case of two weights two measures??
C.Abela.
Free thinker, of course a member of the House of Commons cannot resign. This is just what we are trying to discuss here: once you have been elected by the people to represent them in parliament, you cannot abdicate that responsibility before your term is up.
El Diablo
“Now everyone mentions the Alfred Sant, Mangion/Vella, Mugliett and other stories, but these people can stay since no one has yet proved them guilty of wrongdoing no matter how hard the media try…..”
I know ‘hell’ is quite far away, but hello man, are you alive?|
Good afternoon Amanda, Daphne, Corinne, Moderator and all those who thought I disappeared! I actually went to bed yesterday after watching some TV so I certainly didn’t escape or slither away as some people seem to think i did.
I have nothing to hide Amanda, I’m Gerald Fenech or Gerald whatever. To put things slightly more in perspective I was born in 1973 so in 1981 I was slightly youngish to really appreciate what was going on. However, if it interests you all, I come from a very Nationalist family and voted PN every single time from 1992 to 2003. I attended every single mass meeting of the 92, 96 and 98 campaigns but in 2003 I was working as a journalist so could not show any obvious political bias by attending meetings and waving banners.
It worries me that whoever does not agree with your opinions here is as described by one of the enlightened ‘a cad’. Can one have a different opinion? Can one become sick and tied of arrogance, sheer greed and rampant corruption? And if you think I am one who will condone the doings of Charles Mangion, Karmenu Vella, Jo Said, Michael Woods et al then you are sorely mistaken.
And Moderator, I am not calling for JPO to resign out of spite. I think (as the majority does)that by his actions he has done a great disservice to his constituents and shouldn’t represent them nymore in Parliament. But as has been pointed out, he is the one to decide, maybe I was mistaken on that.
Amanda, what do you have against my listening to classical music? if you’re interested I could recommend a few pieces that would calm your troubled soul especially the work I’m listening to right now, Puccini’s Madam Butterfly.
Incidentally your great friend AS is probably doing the same thing right now…..
Daphne – My joke flew right over your head when I asked “Put a sock on what?”
“… members of the Development Control Commission (DCC) that approved the permit – the same one which recently resigned en bloc after being censured in another audit report for issuing the Lidl supermarket permit on a massive tract of land outside development zones in Safi – and government officials had received telephone calls and messages from Dr Pullicino Orlando before the permit was issued.” – today’s The Times
Daphne, this concerns me. I’d love your opinion on this.
Simon, Smash TV always gives equal space to all political parties. Our news is completely balanced as I see to it that each party gets an equal share of coverage. So before you write, check your facts first.
Amanda… I am Victor’s nephew and none of us wears a wig (by the way its very cheap to offend people because they wer a wig but it is expected from people who just live in the past (1970 – 1987). As noted above, I do not use my full name because I don’t trust politics and I do not want to worry whether a particular party would be a threat to my job and future. (BTW my surname is not Laiviera)
I don’t think he is that important (unlike his father) but I use it just as a nick name. Surely you don’t beleive that everyone is using his rela name? AT least I am not lying or misleading anyone (like JPO).
You may realise that my views are slightly different and i wasn’t commiting myself that I’ll be at Castille. On the other hand, even if Labour had won I wouldn’t be there as I have more important things to do than attend meetings and political activities.
Allow me to remind women like you who live in the past and always speak of the horrible things that labour did, which I do not approve of, that the right to vote was given to women by a labour party and that the social security structure was created by labour, minimum wage was also a labour thing.. and the than PN had opposed to all of these.
I’m not interested in opening a hitorical debate. History is just history. Both PN and MLP have things to be proud and ashamed of… and like the MLP, PN never said sorry for their mistakes…
Oh my, oh my….this Jo Said is really ridiculous.
The “MTA chairman / consultant (sic) wannabe” after making a fool of himself on national TV some weeks ago, tried to eloge himself under a false name on this blog….Yes Jo, IP’s can be traced even in Selmun…..:)
Roll it on Jo……
Mario Debono – well done, prosit!
I share your views entirely, and I’ve heard the same stories about who benefitted most from this spectacle, and I also believe them to be true.
In response to a comment by “Gerald”, I am a constituent in JPO’s district, and voted for him, but I DON’T THINK he has let me down. call him stupid, naive, cheeky, call him whatever you like. I’ll go one step further. If the results of the investigations – police and other – prove that JPO did some ill-doings, then he will have to face the consequences, and this is as it should be. On the other hand, if the results prove otherwise, then let’s all accept that too. I prefer to look at what else he brings to the table – his actions/principles on animal rights, heritage, environment, yes even on how he handled Meltia cable during the World Cup – and for me, all of that overrides whatever he did (wrongly, perhaps0 in regard to Mistra. BTW, has anyone here been along to Mistra of late? We have two long weekends aheads of us, perhaps you should. Exactly what are we protecting here?????? Natura 2000????? More like Manbeast 2000BC to me.
Charles, it seems like you want the development to go ahead on ODZ land. That’s your opinion which is thankfully not shared by others. How one can be in favour of such a massive development and then claim environmental credentials beats me. But then again, together, everything is possible.
Charles Spiteri – read the writing on the wall – wake up and smell the coffee.
Hey Dumbdledore
Daphne didn’t catch on to your joke because she is a lady.
No, it didn’t, Dumbledore – there’s a difference between putting a sock IN it and putting a sock ON it.
She outwits me.
hi everyone……
Just checked Maltastar.com. No idea of the MLP General Conference.
Just checked Maltaright.com and it states that it will be held on the 5th June.
MLP news on PN site !!!!!
Moreover Charles Mangion will be ‘caretaker’ for MLP as he’s not interested in any of the posts .
Being a holiday, Jason Micallef seems to find time to post an article in mlp.org.mt
Stating that now the MLP is to tackle 13 – 14 year olds as in 5 yrs time they will be eligible to vote.
True…..the MLP now targets children. What a bright idea from Jason
Buone feste
CeCe C
Victor’s nephew
You have some cheek!!
You are very prone to sweep state things like “and the than PN had opposed to all of these”.
It is very convenient to use phrases like “women like you who live in the past and always speak of the horrible things that labour did, which I do not approve of…..” and “history is just history”
Well Mr. Nephew, whether you approve or otherwise, you have no idea apparently to what base levels the 70’s and 80’s MLP governments sank.
You say “history is just history”, well for us nationalists history was very unjust. (Pun intended).
I am not surprised you do not want to open a historical debate unless you want to be bombarded with multitudes of facts to prove you wrong.
One does not have to ask about political mistakes should these be technical, but when the mistakes overshadow the democracy and human rights domain, then the MLP has alot to answer.
Gerald – no I don’t, never did. And from what read, it cannot anyway. You have mis-understood me, but that’s OK.
Dumbledore – I don’t need to read what’s on the wall, I just read and read and read. Everything that comes my way. But do you? Or are you one of those that throws up opinions based on heresay and on what others throw at you. Suggest you do a bit of reading yourself. The auditor’s reprot, for one. it is critical of MEPA, critical of DCC A, critical of a lot of things; puts up suggestions too. BUT IT DOES NOT MENTION JPO. No go away insinuating just yet…. let the other investigators go on with their work, and then we’ll see.
BTW, George Micallef, guy who resigned from MTA …. isn’t he one of those within MTA who is, well, ixaqleb lejn il-Lejber?? Wasn’t he one of the top dogs fiz-zmien it-22 months ta’ Sant?
Errata: “No go…” should have read, “Now don’t go away insinuating…” Sorry.
“history is just history” Lino, is the MLP mantra just like ‘Water Under the Bridge’ and ‘No regrets’
Thank you Meerkat; I should have known that. But then, I’m not as intelligent as Dr. Sant is.
Thank God for that Lino
Charles Spiteri, Daphne, everyone … why is nobody talking about the Times’ current online poll?
[Moderator – Read Daphne’s article on tomorrow’s The Malta Independent. It will be online after 10am.]
OK. ON that note I’m staying away from Harvard!
Gerald, the role of a television head of news is not to give all the political parties equal coverage, but to ensure that what you broadcast has news value.
@ Dumbledore
What is there to talk about? Keeping in mind that web based polls that are based on voluntary participation (as opposed to scientific sampling), are not considered accurate; I would take its results with a pinch of salt.
Please bear with me while I take this further. I am sure that certain groups have been made very aware of the poll. Some others may not be aware of it, or couldn’t care.
OK, so far we have established that it is not very accurate. I do remember that a tenet of the way we conduct justice is that a person
is presumed innocent until proven guilty.
Shall we hang JPO? A lynching? Shouldn’t we wait till all evidence is at least presented before drawing conclusions?
Anyway, let us say that it is true. My opinion, and all the others, may be ignored by JPO, and quite rightly so. I think it has been amply established that JPO is answerable solely to those who voted for him, and to nobody else. There is no mechanism in place for those voters to reverse their decision at this point in time. There is not even a way that they can challenge him on the subject at this time. The only way is by withdrawing their support but in the next general election.
That is the way things stand.
BTW, I was amused at a few comments here, along the lines that the PM should make him resign his position.
Let’s kick this idea around. Just imagine myself as PM of a party in government. Now say I take all the party elected MPs and force them to resign. I then replace them with yes men, my children, my uncles, my aunts, my cousins….
Welcome to dictatorship.
The PM did not appoint JPO as a Minister or a P.Sec., that bodes well for the PM. As for JPO getting out of Parliament….that is up to him…if he’s found guilty of a criminal offence he should, if not he should not resign.
Still should not be appointed to any position though.
Dumbledore – Seen it already, and took part in it too. I have no problem with it at all. You?
Gerald: “Smash TV … news is completely balanced …each party gets an equal share of coverage.”
I assume you mean an equal amount of time is allocated to each party. That doesn’t sound like the best approach to news gathering, writing and presentation, which always involves a judgement call if only to decide that something is newsworthy.
A commercial TV station’s commitment is to its viewers first and foremost, not to the political parties it reports on. Some questions to consider:
1. In what way are viewers’ interests respected by allocating equal amounts of time to political parties?
2. Why should a commitment to political parties dictate the terms of news reporting?
3.If a particular party does nothing newsworthy, how do you fill the allocated time in order to justify the allocating the same amount of time to other parties?
4. Why, if a party’s newsworthiness is its absurdity (e.g. Emy Bezzina’s frequently rebranded one-man show) should it be treated as though it has serious news value?
There are lots more questions, but they all lead to the same conclusion: news reporting involves judgemental decision-taking. Sometimes, the best news about a political party is no news at all.
Jason Spiteri – where has it been written that JPO accepted or offered bribes?
Even the accusation of phone calls makes me wonder – how sure where the DCC people that whoever was doing the phone calls was JPO? It has happened even to me that if I just use my surname, people think that I am someone else.
Lino – what happens if he (JPO) is completely cleared – but in the meantime he would have resigned? How can he regain his seat back?
I thin that everyone should patiently wait for all the investigations to be terminated and then see.
this stuff is the bomb, well done! keep up the good work!
:D
Anyone following the Dwejra saga? This time, it’s the antics of one of Nature Trust’s top dogs that is under questioned, being called “ungreen” by other, so-called defenders of our environment – indeed, suppost friends of his. Now should we ask this “ungreen” gentleman to resign, too? Where’s all this taking us?
Dear Daphne, yes, as I said clearly, a member of the House of Commons is forbidden to resign but though our system is based on the British one, our MP’s CAN legally resign as the Constitution does not bar them from doing so and, in fact, some have resigned or relinquished their seat. The matter of whether they abdicate their responsibility, as you say, is a political not a legal question. In practice, in the Commons MP’s DO in fact “resign” because, as in so many cases under British law, legal fictions are devised whereby a lawful way out is found. Appointment to a “paid office under the Crown” disqualifies an individual from sitting as a MP and the person about to “resign” is appointed to such office so as to disqualify him from continuing to sit in the Commons. Two such offices are used to allow MPs to effectively resign their seats:
Crown Steward and Bailiff of the three Chiltern Hundreds of Stoke, Desborough and Burnham and Crown Steward and Bailiff of the Manor of Northstead.
I thought what is being discussed here is not whether a Maltese MP can resign (as you state) but whether a MP can be MADE to resign.
If, as is being suggested, any prime minister can actually send an MP to boot, what would AS have done to ‘salvatur-cum-traditur’ in ’98?
Lino & Merkat,
Keep living in the past than.
I think that 25 years of PN should have sorted out any wrong doings and MLP have paid for their mistakes like AS did in this election. If not, than i’m sorry for you. Maybe your surname is not Polidano. To my knowledge, 2 persons were mainly responsible for those wrong doings, one is dead and the other brought AS gov. down in 1998.
I know what was done in those days, i read about it and discussed them with people suffered. I do not want to open a debate becasue I cannot defend them so we cannot argu about them and secondly because THOSE DAYS ARE OVER!
If they are over Victor’s nephew, how come the MLP is still in oppostion, siehbi?
I came across this site….
http://www.readymadeexcuses4labourfans.com/forum
good site for a laugh
Chris, the fact remains that JPO lied about not knowing ANYTHING about the contract. the fact that he cried and chased AS made him look more pathetic in my opinion. Hats off to Gonzi for excluding him from the cabinet.
Chris,
I refer you to my following posting earlier in this blog and to one even earler than this.
“As I have already stated very early in this blog, as far as I can deduce up till now, JPO is as yet only liable for a political mistake which carries a big burden, which in my opinion, should lead him into resigning voluntarily from a MP, PENDING the completion of investigations. Some blogger/s here have mentioned bribes, which hypothesis has not even been alleged, let alone proven. One has to await the ensuing police investigations to be able to make further comments about the case”.
Victor’s nephew: Those days are not ‘over’ as you say. They will be when the past is laid to rest not by the people who suffered, but by those who made them suffer. There’ve been calls for an apology. It would not be enough but it would be a minor first step. Yet still not even that much has been done.
My dear Victor’s Nephew,
You say that I’m living in the past, yet you proved that at least I’m living in the present and you in the future.
I happen to be quite good at maths and integral and differential calculus suggest that 1987+25=2012, and that’s where you’re living; so at least I’m living the present. Or is it perhaps you wish the next election to be already on the doorstep?
No Mr Nephew, you’re wrong again. How could 20 years of PN government make good for a wedding at Zejtun turned haywire with rabbit skins flung over at the guests by MLP supporters, ruining the unique dream of any bride to be.
It is us nationalist that have suffered MLP’s vicious blunders and even if we were to be financially or otherwise compensated, it still calls for an apology on the MLP’s part, otherwise the wounds will not heal.
Forgiveness and contrition are inseparable.
Regarding “2 persons were mainly responsible for those wrong doings”, you have already shown that you’re a bit inapt at figures, or perhaps you haven’t read enough. I agree that you cannot defend them but apart from being sorry, the least you can do is to lobby within your party that an apolgy IS due.
As far your Polidano complex goes, if you thruthfully think that any corruption was or is in the offing, you have the appropriate mechanisms to report it; and now you have ample proof that it will be taken seriously.
So long and God bless you.
@ Corinne Vella
Brilliant analysis and well put :)
Just a small observation, about TV stations in Malta. I wonder if there is another country where the largest political parties own a TV station.
The genius who came up with that idea should be thrown in shark infested waters. How typical of politicians (BTW, I believe it was the PN who was in government at the time when this gem of enlightenment was conceived) to ensure that mainstream people should be continuously bombarded with what AS, Gonzi, Emmy, Lowell, Harry etc are up to.
[Moderator – On the contrary, I think it was a fantastic idea. At least we got to watch tennis on Super One while PN voters were out celebrating.]
@ mod
Could you hear anything from the commentary over the concert of toilet flushing over at Super 1?
:D
[Moderator – No, but I’ll bet there was a rush on Dioralyte at the Hamrun pharmacies.]
Vanni: Emmy, Lowell and Harry haven’t got their own TV station – yet. We’re treated to equal shares of them on Smash instead.
@ amrio
Did you see JPO anywhere during Fosos (last and largest) PN Mass meeting? I already had a premonition when I could not see him anywhere.
Maybe he didn’t attend because Dr Gonzi instructed him not to, since AS had just shown Dr Gonzi the lease contract of the land. Well he did the right thing. I voted JPO, but now I wish he would disappear from the earth’s face because he is doing a lot of harm to the PN.
Vanni: Would that be in dictatorships, in banana republics or in (quasi) democratic states?
Indannata,
Don’t jump to conclusions yet. Time will tell, either way.
@ Indannata.
You mean the mass meeting after the election win? I’m not sure – had too many drinks to be a good judge on that day! But I think I heard somewhere that he was there – and was given a cool reception by the crowd (unlike during the meetings before the election)
@Giggs 11
Hell, when you mention those years I still remember my pa telling me how Eileen Montesin was aired on TVM back then singing Run Rabbit Run.
He still does not trust that woman, and to be frank neither do I. She is nothing but an opportunist, and may well use her influence against us if she does not get what she wants. I too am proud of voting PN, but not of voting JPO, he is a shame to this party.
Don’t worry Lino, I am counting the minutes in anticipation of the outcome of the Comm. of Police maybe, just maybe JPO is not guilty, but until then..
Hey Observer,
I know, correction knew, Marlene before (she was a PN candidate) and know for sure she would not stoop to such things, not for the love of JPO but for the love of her children. You can ask Daphne how a mother feels when children are hurt because of their parents.
No I’m sure of it Marlene has nothing to do with this.
Indannata,
be sure to differ between a political mistake and a criminal offense. The latter is much, much more serious.
@ Corinne
I wonder if even any of those examples you mentioned would go so far as to openly allow the political ownership of a station. I do suspect that our country can claim another first here. Hooray for us.
BTW, and to be fair on Maltese stations, the worst thing (after Dardir Malta of course) I ever heard for on air idiocy was from the Armed Forces Radio Network – The Eagle. Some time ago, I was listening to it just after Thanksgiving and the listeners were informed of what George Bush had to eat, down to the last detail, a side plate of peas, that were well received by the Boss.
The icing on the cake for me was when the presenter stated that the President’s family had been joined at Camp David by his dog (the mutt’s name was mentioned but escapes me), and that the dog had been flown up by helicopter to Camp David!!!!!
It must warm American taxpayer’s heart to know that a chopper ride was laid on extra for the Presidential dog. I remember thinking at the time that as this Radio station targets Americans stationed aboroad, they must be proud to know what they are fighting for.
@ Freethinker – an MP can’t be made to resign in Malta. It is entirely up to the MP. Earlier you posted a comment asking about the mechanisms for removal of MPs, should their position be found to be untenable in terms of articles 54 and 55 of the Constitution. You said that the Constitution is ‘silent’ on the matter. Well, the person responsible for the investigation and removal of MPs is the Speaker of the House – the political parties or their leaders simply don’t come into it, because our Constitution speaks in terms of MPs not parties – or at least it did until the recent mechanisms for the adjustment of seats to votes. The Speaker acts according to Standing Orders.
@ Freethinker – when I said that an MP ‘can’t be made to resign’, what I meant is that he/she can’t be made to resign unless his/her position is untenable in terms of articles 54 or 55 of the Constitution. MPs in JPO’s position certainly cannot be forced or obliged to resign, and it would be anti-democratic for the prime minister or his political party to exert pressure on him to do so. Regardless of the merits or demerits of his case, I object on principle to seeing an MP put under such pressure – especially given that he is my MP and nobody has bothered to ask me whether I want him removed and replaced with somebody I made a point of not voting for, like Michael Asciak of Opus Dei (also on my district and fortunately not elected).
@Chilly – Sant called a snap election to get rid of his renegade MP and lost.
@ A. Jones – on the contrary, JPO pulled in thousands of votes by crying and chasing Alfred Sant – and for that we should be grateful.
For me and for many like me in the eleventh district, it was a choice between Anglu Farrugia and Michael Farrugia on one side, Carmel Cacopardo of supposedly whistleblowin’ fame mosquitoing around, and JPO on the other. You can all guess who I chose. So far, notwithstanding the media exposure of MEPA’s auditor’s report, I am still very very happy – thank you very much – to have placed my trust in JPO. Many continue to call for JPO’s resignation, yet few have possibly even read the auditor’s report. There’s NOTHING that damns JPO in that report, I assure you. I now await the police investigation. If JPO’s been meddling, he’ll pay – don’t you worry. But until then, I for one will treat him as innocent until proven guilty. This is the society I wish to live in, nothing less.
I can honestly say, hand on heart, that the man in the cheap wig convinced me to vote for JPO!
Mind you I would have voted PN anyway :)
Charles Spiteri – You asked “Anyone following the Dwejra saga?”
Are you referring to the monstrous concrete structure being built at the end of the short road leading down to the inland sea at Dwejra in Gozo? I was there a few days ago (hence my short silence), and was wondering what it could be, given that it is certainly not in-keeping with the rest of the area.
Victor’s nephew: Unlike you, I do not live in the future. Should it really interest you, I am one who does not even like to plan what to do tomorrow. I live very much for today, but – like many others who have been affected directly by Labour atrocities (unlike you, it seems) – simply will not forget the past, unless, of course, the perpetrators show some sort of remorse and apologise. In many cases, they have even got to give back what they have taken away.
But do you know what, Victor’s nephew? Call it perverse if you wish, but sometimes it is even satisfying to see the state to which these tyrants are reduced with the passing of time, because yes, we are all human after all. Mhux qed niehu gost bid-deni ta’ hadd iehor, imma … it is good to see that certain people strive to ruin others (jobghodu l-min ghandu, as we say), and yet they still all go down the same road as the rest of us, no? Which is why I said that I prefer to live for today …
As for your comment about being cheap at offending people who wear wigs, please don’t generalise. I was not offending PEOPLE (IN GENERAL) who wear wigs, because I do agree that in some cases they may be necessary. It is just that I fail to see how people can take a MAN in a wig seriously, and a political leader at that. I mean, imagine the guy getting up in the morning, deciding what wig to wear. How manly is that? To me it is tantamount to a man having his hair dyed or blow-dried. All such cases, to me, are objects of ridicule.
As for your comment about your uncle Victor (“I don’t think he is that important (unlike his father)”). If you really must know, it was the very sight of the surname Laiviera on The Times blog re the infamous university debate which sparked off many dormant memories for me. I was very young in the ’70s, but somehow, the surname “Laiviera”, though I admit that I do not know much about the person himself, remained stuck in my memory along with the likes of Mintoff, Lorry Sant and co in the days of black and white TV, when to us children, the parliamentary debates on black and white TV were a source of entertainment, since they were usually highly animated, to say the least.
As for your comment “allow me to remind women like you who live in the past and always speak of the horrible things that labour did … that the right to vote was given to women by a labour party …”, how wrong you are to insinuate that (a) I live in the past (see my comment above), and that (b) “women like me” should (read between the lines) forget the past simply because Labour “has given us the right to vote”.
Unlike the infamous MLP comment (yours included), history is NOT just history. One has to acknowledge – and apologise for – the past should one want to be credible, especially should one’s track record not be one to be proud of.