“They have sold their soul to hell”
Published:
January 8, 2015 at 10:57am
“I am extremely angry. These are criminals, barbarians. They have sold their soul to hell. This is not freedom. Their barbarism has nothing to do with Islam, and I hope the French will come out united at the end of this.” – Hassen Chalghoumi, imam of the Drancy mosque in the suburb of Seine-Saint-Denis, Paris, speaking to France’s BFM TV.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/07/muslims-respond-charlie-hebdo_n_6429710.html
Well, Europe’s weak underbelly has been exposed.
Actually I would call them cowards on top of that because that is what terrorists are.
I prefer to call them fanatical Muslims but cowards they surely are not.
Not cowards, you say? Sure, because it takes a lot of guts to shoot at unarmed civilians, doesn’t it?
The Imam can say what he wants. But what is he, and higher Muslim leaders, going to do about it?
What do you expect him to do, other than condemn the murders?
There isn’t a single act that they can do. However they can also preach and practise tolerance vis-a-vis non-Muslim communities, which is not the case at the moment.
A fatwa against the terrorists.
“A fatwa against the terrorists”. Please tell me you’re joking.
I’ll take him seriously when he condemns the likes of Hamas.
Liberal, you do not understand irony and a little sense of the ridiculous.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/17/saudi-clerics-fatwa-declares-terrorism-heinous-crime-sharia-law
A. Charles, I do understand irony, but in Malta, you never really know. That’s why I asked you whether you’re joking.
I do not personally agree with this view in the Haaretz, but will self-censorship by the press now spread?
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.635923
Haaretz is well-placed to know. They are regularly on the receiving end of Molotov cocktails, thrown not by Palestianians but by right-wing Israelis.
I would wait to see who aided and abetted these animals. They couldn’t have done this in a vacuum.
Why not?
Because the editorial meeting was the only time the entire group was there and it was not regular.
http://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2015/01/01/muslims-suspected-of-staging-a-third-arson-attack-on-mosque-in-sweden/
That is a trash website. It claimed the crucifixion of dogs in Malta was done by a Muslim. Please do not spread that filth here.
That’s a conspiracy theory website. It even claimed the Mosta cat crucifier was Muslim. Don’t waste time reading that crap, let alone waste other people’s time by posting it.
The terrorists want the exact opposite of unity. They want Muslims to feel ostracised and persecuted in Europe so they have more willing recruits to join their ranks.
That’s true. ISIS has been doing this for a very long time. They sow envy and discord in order to get Muslims feel persecuted, when they are not.
But then the Iman would say that wouldn’t he. However, deeds are more convincing than words and the latter are cheap.
Whilst it is quite obvious to anybody that not all Muslims are terrorists, and God forbid that they are, it is also a fact that presently a good percentage (say 80%) of the global terrorists are carrying their deeds in the name of Islam.
Such terrorism must have a lot of support both financial and logistic and this does come, as has been shown, from mainstream Muslims.
I feel that that Muslims simply are not doing enough to eradicate terrorists from their midst, and yes their religion is not that tolerant. Just consider how non Muslims (Christians and others) are treated in Islamic countries.
[Daphne – You see, this is exactly what I mean about these debates being entirely exhausting. Tolerance and freedom of worship do not exist in Europe because of Christianity but despite it. They are SECULAR values and not Christian values. Before the late 18th century, Christians of all stripes were busily engaged in persecuting and killing each other throughout Europe, with brief pauses for pogroms against Jews and expelling Muslims from various cities. The world’s single greatest protracted effort at eradicating a religion and those who belonged to it actually took place in Europe between the early 1930s and 1945, leaving many millions dead and the continent wrecked. Islamic countries are by definition intolerant – that’s why they are called ‘Islamic’. ‘Islamic’ does not mean a country in which the majority of the population espouses Islam. How do you think non-Muslims are ‘treated’ in Morocco, Tunisia, Egypt, Turkey…even Libya before the rise of Islamic State? Those countries all have Christian churches and Christian populations, and people living and working there who come from all over the world. Islamic State is an enemy even of Muslims themselves.]
The debate may be exhausting to you, Daphne , can you imagine the thousands who live in Islamic states ?
The tolerant attitude shown in Western culture ( not just Europe) is due to the Judeo Christian roots and not secular. Just think of how intolerant are secularist to any religious notion,also amongst us.
Regarding the countries mentioned by you, you are not well informed. In those countries Christian symbols (eg the cross) are prohibited from being displayed publically.
Churches cannot have their façade giving on to the street, they must be in an enclosure, normally a walled perimeter.
Muslims are not permitted to convert (except in Turkey) to any other religion.
I agree that Islamic State is an enemy to Shite Muslims, but besides IS there are other terrorist who act in the name of Islam.
And just think the country where a far right party may become the biggest party in the polls is France the country that espoused Secularism first !
[Daphne – Get a grip. When Muslims tried to pray on the Sliema front, all hell broke loose. The only reason people in Malta tolerate the mosque is because it’s in Corradino where they can forget about it. The true test will be an application to have a mosque in Valletta.
No, tolerance in Europe is most definitely not the product of Christianity. How could it be? Christianity is a major religion that was itself fighting for domination. You really should read more history and widen your general knowledge.]
I do have a grip, Daphne, and in fact I do read and especially books about history (am reading at present ‘Christendom destroyed’ by Greenglass and you ?)
[Daphne – You’re reading Christendom Destroyed while telling me that European tolerance is the fruit of Christianity? You’re actually reading Christendom Destroyed in the belief that it bears out your views? I give up. Christendom Destroyed is about the triumph of secularism and rational thought in shaping the Europe we have come to know.]
Let’s not take Malta as an example, it is a minuscule country and is such an insular society (I am Maltese, before I get insulted to go back home for insulting the Maltese).
[Daphne – I know you’re Maltese. Maltese people use language in a very particular way.]
I know, because I read enough, that no one has the ultimate truth about most facts and that all religions have been used in perverted ways. But regarding tolerance there is no comparisons between Christianity and Islam, with the latter losing out.
I noticed that you had no thoughts regarding the political situation in France (perhaps you are still mulling over it). But the fact I quoted must stop Secularist who think that only good comes out from Secularism in their track.
The fact that France, the first country to espouse Secularism may soon have a far right party as the biggest party should give some thoughts to Secularist.
[Daphne – France was not the first European country to ‘espouse secularism’. Several European countries were secular all along. Secularism does not mean the absence of religion. It means the absence of religion from state affairs and the law.]
The Corradino mosque is not the only mosque in Malta. There are plenty more operating without a permit.
Interesting views on Secularism, Steve. So you would deny freedom because some people (like the far right) would abuse it. That’s a line of defence an Islamist would use.
Yes our church persecuted others 500 years ago…it means these Moslems are 500years backwards . ..and sorry Daphne I do not want my country to get filled with Mosques…it is our country and we have a right to want it looking as it is..thank you
Daphne, there is one crucial issue that you are missing; only in Christianity there is a tenet which says “Love thy neighbour”.
[Daphne – Can this be repeated too often? This is not about religion. It is ABSOLUTELY IRRELEVANT what the Bible and the Koran and the various dogmas say. This is about the male drive to violent hegemony over others, using any convenient religious or political movement as the vehicle for getting what they want. ‘Love thy neighbour’ never stopped men campaigning savagely and dominating violently over others in the name of Christianity.]
Love thy neighbour – and screw the other 423,280 who live further away.
If Jesus existed and said “Love thy neighbour,” he would have said it because your neighbour is a fellow Jew, but what about your neighbour’s slaves? He said nothing about something so common at the time.
And what about the time when he said that he is not peace instead he will turn man against his father?
I just love religion.
Actually the ‘Golden Rule’ of ‘Do to others ….etc’ is the one common principle in all religions. The fact that some ‘believers’ choose to ignore this universal principle proves Daphne’s point that this is not about religion.
You really have no clue of the hell we live in, do you? Not even an ant’s perception of the multi-layered deception that abounds. No idea of how it works out in its various forms. Not an inkling of who’s benefiting, who’s funding, who these useful idiots are, and who’s behind them…
You deserve to be kept in the dark and laughed at – the whole misguided lot. It serves you right for failing to discern who controls your ‘news’.
Laughable idiots. That’s what you are.
[Daphne – My, you sound uptight today, Kevin.]
Frustrated, Daphne, not ‘uptight’.
And the arrogance you see in me is a product of the evidence I have been through over these past 20 years. Evidence is evidence – and I’m not including any Kesslerian ‘sets of unambiguous pieces of circumstantial evidence’ of which there are plenty. No, I’m talking about numerous sets of incontrovertible evidence that proves beyond the slightest doubt that we live in a complete illusion.
As I have often said, there are five levels of critical views based on evidence (which educated, unknowing fools lump with CT), and we’re basically still at Level Two here.
As it is, you barely scratch the surface at Level One – that’s how ridiculously misinformed, ill-informed and disinformed you all are.
Please do enlighten us, kev.
Oh, you got me there, Liberal. You of all people. One of the most misguided fools I’ve encountered on this blog.
How can you teach calculus to a child who’s sure 2 plus 2 make 5?
Was it them Jooos again?
If only things were as simple.
Well, France is pushing for the recognition of Palestine as a State.
No, Wormwood.
But simpletons are allowed two more guesses.
You hardly know me, kev. But since you’re not misguided like I supposedly am, please do enlighten those of us who did not take the red pill.
Enlighten us, Kev. We’re all ears.
I found this article to be a very good analysis of why the cartoonists were targeted.
http://www.juancole.com/2015/01/sharpening-contradictions-satirists.html
I am still waiting for the comments of the imam in Malta.
He commented hours and hours ago. It’s in the paper. Why should he anyway? Is he our puppet who dances on command?
How about asking the two Libyan representatives in Malta for their views.
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20150108/local/imam-paris-attack-was-an-insult-to-prophet-mohammad.551087
Why tell me, Jozef?
I am clearly speaking of Hussain Musrati Chargé d’ Affaires representing the Tripoli government and Chargé d’Affaires Habib Lamin as Tobruk representative at the Libyan ‘embassy’ in Ta’ Xbiex.
I would like to know what they think and my gut feeling is that we will get different answers.
That was for Wacko actually.
How exactly are they relevant? It’s just as stupid as asking me for my views on Opus Dei just because I hold a Maltese passport.
They are relevant because they they have opposing opinions but there again anything you don’t come up with is stupid, isn’t it, Baxxter.
How boring.
The Libyan representatives represent Libya, not Islam, or the Charlie Hebdo killers.
Who’s stupid now?
Baxxter’s right.
One represents the Libyan Islamic faction the other doesn’t.
I feel that their views are important since they are operating from Malta.
Perhaps you’re not intersted but I am.
Then why not ask for a comment from that playboy Saudi prince who got a Maltese medal? Or from the Saudi embassy? Or from the Qatari businessmen in Malta?
Is it because money trumps anti-Islamism?
Because none of those you mention are politicians whereas the two I mention are and that may have future implications for Malta, possibly negative ones.
As for the official Saudi reaction, I know what that is.
“…The kingdom therefore strongly condemns and denounces this cowardly terrorist act that is rejected by true Islamic religion as well as the rest of the religions and beliefs,” the Saudi state news agency SPA said, citing an official source.
I still haven’t heard the opinion of the two chargé d’ affaires representing Tripoli and Tobruk and I’d like to know it and I strongly feel that it’s in Malta’s interest to know it too.
Many of the Muslims speaking out live in western countries. Muslim leaders in Arab countries need to make their voice heard as well.
I find comments like ‘It has nothing to do with Islam’ a bit too simplistic. When people self-identify as Muslim and act in the name of Islam, one can’t say that they are not Muslims or that their actions have nothing to do with Islam. What one can say is that they are not good Muslims and that their interpretation of Islam is horrendous.
An important distinction which needs to be made is between the words Muslim and Islamist. All people who believe in the Quran’s words are Muslim but not all Muslims are Islamist, (Islamists don’t see themselves as different. They just think of themselves as good Muslims.)
Islamism is a political ideology, basically the imposition of Sharia law as interpreted by those governing on all citizens living within the governed area. Unfortunately, Islamism, like communism, fascism and other political ideologies which have been tried, does not seem to be compatible with democracy, free speech and other values cherished by us Europeans. Islamists tend to have a problem even with a Muslims of a different school (Sunni Islamists don’t see Shia as Muslims, for example).
Many Muslims found this out for themselves after 2011. Following the Arab Spring, Islamist governments were initially elected in the countries which went through uprisings. These did not work out very well because Islamism is very totalitarian and the people found themselves rebelling all over again against the Islamist governments they had just elected.
In Tunisia, the Islamist government was forced to resign and later lost an election, in Egypt, the Islamist government was forced out through a publicly supported coup and in Libya, there is an ongoing civil war. Meanwhile Islamists who did not even bother contesting elections like Islamic State and Boko Haram are trying to take over land coercively and killing anyone who displays disagreement with their ideology.
Islam works because it is a religion, just like Christianity and Judaism and can be practised peacefully within a pluralist society. Islamism doesn’t because it is a totalitarian political ideology.
They spoke up a long time ago about ISIS. Google it.
The irony is that the police officer we watched being gunned down was a Muslim.
How do you know that?
On the ITV clip you can hear him shout ‘Le, le, le’ before being shot.
That doesn’t make him Muslim, just arab speaking but a TV channel went on to give further information.
His name was Ahmed, he was Muslim and he had integrated himself comfortably within his host country.
You are wrong.
That’s the journalists on the roof of the neighbouring building who are shouting, and they’re shouting “Là, là, là” (There, there, there), because two seconds previously, and you can see this in the unedited clip, they where shouting “À gauche!”, because they were trying to direct police officers to the scene.
What the police officer said to the killer just before he was shot, and you can see this in the unedited clip posted by Daphne, is “C’est bon, chef” (as far as I can make out), which is a way of saying “Don’t shoot me, I’m not going to move” in a submissive way, like you would with a police officer or a bouncer.
Don’t run away with the impression that all second-generation Frenchmen of North African origin speak Arabic. And don’t assume that they’re all Muslims.
When three French soldiers where killed by Mohammed Merah, one of them was called Abel Chennouf. Everyone immediately jumped to the conclusion that here was an innocent Muslim killed by a fellow Muslim. It turned out Chennouf was a Christian, and his family had been for generations.
Sorry for the anorackery.
You’re the one who’s wrong. I am assuming nothing.
The slain policeman was Muslim. You’ll find that on Facebook posted by those who knew him and his friends.
This blog is for discussion isn’t it?
You’re wrong about him speaking Arabic.
‘You’re wrong about him speaking Arabic.’
You’re right.
I heard the clip. He appears to be speaking in French.
Now he did not draw those cartoons now, did he? Yet he was shot at in cold blood. Which past Christian crusade justified that action may I ask?
So, Just Me, are you saying all the women burned at the stake were witches?
How Liberal.
Ara x’ghamiltu intom.
I wasn’t the one to bring up the Crusades, Jozef. If you didn’t get the point of my rhetorical question, just ask.
Now this is disarming.
https://declutteringmymind.wordpress.com/2014/10/03/ridiculous-muslim-hate/
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/anjem-choudary-paris-shooting-muslims-do-not-believe-concept-freedom-expression-1482438
Daphne you assume too much. The book does not show ‘the triumphalism of Secularism and Rational thought over….’ and the title (provocative as it is) is not about Christianity but Christendom (two different concepts).
[Daphne – Christendom is the Christian ‘world’, and at the time of which you are reading, when geography was a little different, it meant Christian territory or rather, that part of the world subject to Christian hegemony. Yes, as I have been trying to tell you, none of this has ever been about religion for its own sake but about earthly power and domination. In Christendom, the law was the equivalent of ‘shariah’ in today’s Islamic states. The destruction of Christendom, of which you read, is the destruction of a reality in which Christian dogma, doctrine, laws, rules and beliefs ordered the state and society.]
According to the author the destruction came about mainly due to the Reformation, since before that most of what we consider as Europe followed the Roman Catholic tradition, whilst after that it did not. And this required a ‘new’ definition.
[Daphne – It is at points like this that I think all our educators over the last X generations should be lined up and, well, not shot. This is general knowledge, Steve. This is the stuff people learn at 15, or should learn at 15. You don’t read Greenglass’s book for the basics.]
Give up as much as you like, but do stop assuming. People who do not agree with you do not always have to be blinkered. In my case the fact that I find such a book fascinating and recommend it to others, proves exactly the opposite of what you are saying.
[Daphne – The fact that you find it fascinating means that all of this is new to you and that is shocking.]
Daphne, my apologies for taking up too much of your time. I will let the readers of your blog to decide who is the most blinkered.
On my part, do keep up the good work as yes Malta needs bloggers such as you to challenge us.
Trust you will have a healthy, prosperous and fruitful new year.
PS but do stop assuming!
Islamic State in Libya claims execution of two Tunisian journalists
http://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/africa/57115-150108-islamic-state-in-libya-claims-execution-of-two-tunisian-journalists
Understanding Mediterranean port cities like Smyrna, Salonika and Alexandria is imperative in my opinion as they shed light on thriving cosmopolitan communities destroyed with the emergence of nationalism and more so in the creating of a hegemonised cultural community between set borders.
Many fail to understand that fixed borders and long calm peaceful periods are quite a new concept as few stand to gain from wars nowadays.
Before, frontiers were continuously changing and most wars were fought over trade rather than culture and religion.
In the meantime the most productive cities built their fortunes by encouraging multi-ethnic people, mostly merchants, be it Muslims, Jews or Christians as in the case of Smyrna and Alexandria under Ottoman rule.
Unfortunately after WW1 ethnic cleansing led these cities into the path of destruction leaving mere shells of their former past.
Thankfully their spirit still thrives in modern day New York, London and others. We should aim to be likwise and forget the stupid motto of ‘Malta l-ewwel u qabel kollox’. Ironically the Maltese word for god is ‘Alla’ like in Arabic.
I have been a follower here for yonks. I read and digest and sometimes I am perplexed with some of the comments! Whilst most of the time I agree with you Daphne, this time I cannot. The basis of our life are (somewhat) based on the basic human rights. The RC commandments (with the exception of the first three) embody these rights. Islam DOES NOT. Whilst I was born and bred an RC, first of all I consider myself a HUMAN. As part of this breed, my tenet of life is to treat others the way I want to be treated. Islam is pretty intolerant of anybody who ACTS HUMAN. In my younger days, my schooling made me very conversant with comparative religions, and whilst today, 40 years later it might have changed, there was no other intolerant religion than islam. The word ‘assassin’ should be enough to show how intolerant islam is! The word started from those who were so hashed, aka as hasshassin that they actually believe that they will find those 40 virgins awaiting them after they did the atrocities they were told to do!
I think the free world should stop playing with these diper heads and unleash hell onto them starting with the country that started all this back in the 70s by giving the United States full backing to Wahhabism: Saudi Arabia. Once you cut out the main tumour it should be pretty simple to mop up any minor metastised tumours.
Diaper heads? Really?
Wow.
Unfortunately these crimes are committed in the name of religion. More unfortunate is the fact that what we get from Muslims is a scant, dry, “This is not Islam.” Agreed and accepted.
But what are Muslim authorities, secular and religious, doing to seed out from among them those who hijack religion for their own most devilish plans?
I hardly ever hear, read or am told of any significant action taken to eradicate Muslim extremism. What is really going on?
It’s out there. Just Google it.