Keeping the marriage together at all costs
No wonder the poor woman is depressed, with a fabulous marriage like this. If this is an example of what God put together, then what can I say? He sure as hell didn’t know what he was doing, unless it was his idea of a joke. Thank heavens there’s man around to put them asunder, if only our parliamentarians would get a grip on themselves and get started.
The Times Saturday, August 30, 2008
Admits to beating up his wife>
A man yesterday admitted to beating up his wife but their son denied being violent to his mother in the same incident. The 61-year-old man and his 26-year-old son were also charged with trying to seriously injure the woman, threatening her and insulting her. The son was also accused of assaulting two probation officers breaching the conditions of a previous release and relapsing. The names of the family are not being published to protect the identity of the mother due to her mental health condition. The court heard how she had been suffering from depression for a few months before the incident occurred. Magistrate Miriam Hayman ordered a pre-sentencing report to be drawn up about the 61-year-old man before she delivers sentence. He was granted bail against a deposit of €350 and a personal guarantee of €2,000 on the condition that he lives with a friend until sentencing next week. The son was remanded in custody. Police Inspector James Grech prosecuted.
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The husband is bad enough but the SON???
[Daphne – Husbands like this fall into one of two types: those who train the sons to help them abuse the wife and mother and to regard her as an object, and those who abuse the sons just as they abuse the wife and mother, so that the sons grow up to be very protective towards their mother – like the man in Gozo who shot his father a couple of years ago. Around 16 years ago, at Dar Merhba Bik, a shelter for abused women, I met a woman who had 10 children, most of them sons. She was there because her husband had trained them ALL to hit her. She was a shrivelled wreck.]
This sad story seems to me to be a case of folie a deux ( or a trois). Unfortunately mental illness has a strong hereditary tendency and also, after prolonged exposure, it can be transmissible. It is also by and large incurable. The consequences and cost to society are immeasurable.
Poor woman! I mean just imagine that the two humans who are meant to be the closest to you can turn out to be such monsters. Utterly horrific !!
The son was remanded in custody; the husband was granted bail “provided that he lives with “a friend” until sentencing”. And then what? I suppose he’ll be given a paltry fine or a suspended sentence, and the wife can continue to live in fear … in the same house as her husband.
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If this is an example of what God put together, then what can I say? He sure as hell didn’t know what he was doing, unless it was his idea of a joke.
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What does God have to do with anything? Isn’t a 61 year old man responsible for his actions? Wasn’t the woman aware of who she was marrying? Probably she had been warned by friends and family, but pressed on regardless…
It’s very childish to ask why God allows certain things to happen.
a) if God “allowed” things to happen we wouldn’t be responsible for our actions
b) God, although omnipotent and omniscient, does not interfere with nature, nor does he force his wisdom on to any of us.
Taken in the context of the report quoted in the post, God knew that this was going to happen, and he probably made sure (his ways are beyond us, we have to admit) that the woman in question was warned. I am also sure that he tried to make the man see sense somehow… but at the end of the day it’s our free will that determines our actions.
“You can take a horse to the water, but you can’t make it drink”
[Daphne – I am the last one to drag God into anything. I was merely referring to the oft-quoted reason why divorce is undesirable: what God has put together, let no man put asunder. It’s in the marriage rite, remember?]
” It’s in the marriage rite, remember? ” Is it in the civil marriage rite?
Depression is a very complicated sickness , I don’t want to defend wife beaters , but living with a depressed person is unbearable at times. .
Which came first , the beating or the depression? Dr Caruana Galizia’s diagnosis conclude without any doubt that the beatings came first (it fits her agenda).
Now let’s for argument’s sake assume that the depression of this poor woman came first , should the solution be divorce?
From the way I see things I can only say that neither violence nor divorce are the solutions for this “family”. They need a lot of support .
[Daphne – “What God has joined together let no man put asunder”: the part of the Christian marriage ceremony that states God’s authority over man. The injuction is taken from Matthew 19:6 (King James Version): Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. I’m assuming that this couple married in church, like almost ever other couple in their late 50s/early 60s.]
Zizzu: “Wasn’t the woman aware of who she was marrying? Probably she had been warned by friends and family, but pressed on regardless.”
So, it was her fault she was being abused?
Zizzu: “God, although omnipotent and omniscient, does not interfere with nature”
Brings Woody Allen to thought:
“If it turns out that there IS a God, I don’t think that he’s evil. I think that the worst you can say about him is that basically he’s an underachiever.”
If he does not interfere with nature, what is he up to?
“God knew that this was going to happen, and he probably made sure (his ways are beyond us, we have to admit) that the woman in question was warned.”
What I think of your god, if this is actually true, is probably not mentionable in this blog.
[Daphne – Maybe Zizzu’s idea of God is like Woody Allen’s Jewish mother in the sky – you know, the one who looms large over the streets of Manhattan to nag and warn him about impending disaster.]
@ Daphne ; I was taught that when you assume ,you make an ASS of yoU and ME. You assumed also that the depression was caused by the beatings.
I think you understood where I want to arrive, so you write up a sort of prompt reply.
So in your opinion , is divorce the solution for this couple?
[Daphne – It’s been my observation over several years that when a married woman ends up in that seriously depressed state, it’s almost always as a result of her feelings of helplessness and lack of control over her own life, and a dysfunctional relationship with her husband. Women place a great deal of importance on their relationship with the man in their life. They see it as a sustaining thing, and if it is not sustaining, then it is debilitating. A woman will either turn her anger outwards, towards her husband, or inwards, and become depressed. Some women can fill the void left by an emotionally absent or otherwise neglectful husband by focussing on their relationship with their children or their work, but this poor woman clearly had neither. Yes, of course divorce is a solution in her case, coupled with some serious therapy geared towards building up her self-esteem and dignity, allowing her to face the world and construct a life.]
@ Daphne : It could be a solution , but I asked if it was THE solution.
Evidently you never had first hand experience with a depressed person , it is a recurring sickness and leaving a depressed person on his/her own is irresponsible let alone going through a divorce procedure.
I know of a lot of men and women who suffer from depression and their loving wives/husbands have to secretly dilute their daily medicine in their food , because they would not admit that they are sick , what kind of emotional relationship could there be with a depressed partner?
Should the healthy ask for the divorce from their sick partners?
I wish I knew about this “serious therapy” which you are writing about, does this include shock treatment?
So according to your “observation” along the years, depressed spinsters don’t exist.
[Daphne – Please tell me you’re not serious. Please. What you seem to be advocating here is that the woman stays with the husband who beats her so as not to be left alone. And do I detect an undertow of sympathy for the man who did the beating, because living with a depressed wife must really have taken it out of him? If you know so many depressed people in your immediate circle, perhaps you should ask yourself what the common factor might be. You might find, as I did, that where middle-aged women are concerned, it’s almost always due to lack of control over their life and too much conformity with the expectations of others, and the realisation that half their life has gone by and it hasn’t met their hopes and wishes. Perhaps it’s the same with men. I wouldn’t know, not having known more than a couple who went through it. As for depressed middle-aged women – why, there are lots of those about. And no, I approve of neither shock therapy nor Valium and other anti-depressants. When depression is caused by a situation, it’s the situation that has to change. Drugs and shock therapy are just a way of controlling unhappy people (who, ironically, are only unhappy because they are controlled) without getting to the root cause of the trouble.]
@ Daphne : I am not advocating violence or trying to find a blame on the poor woman. I am only advocating support before things run out of hand. The poor woman is the victim . Could it be that the man never accepted that his wife was mentally sick, and being uneducated about the matter only made things worse ? My worries are towards the victim , the man deserves a bigger punishment than he got from the magistrate, violence is not a solution.I am not sympathetic to the man , but I look at all the angles of the problem , it could be that I am trying to walk in his shoes: empathising. I try to find the root cause of the beating by putting myself in his shoes , like when an investigator tries to find the motive for a murder.
I am angry at the State; we are supposed to have preventive systems for these social cases , but the only thing we hear about Sedqa and Appogg is when they threaten to strike about better conditions of work.
Your solution for this couple is divorce, it could be you are right. My solution would have lied further up the road when the beating or the depression started.My solution is prevention your solution is a quick fix.
Dealing with a depressed relative needs a lot of education about the sickness and above all a lot of love.
You never had first hand experience dealing with a depressed relative ,unfortunately there is no simple solution for this condition.
I know of many cases but there is no common factor, one’s wife died , another thought his 50 year old wife was having an affair but admits he needs medicine , another got depressed because his neighbours picked on him, reporting him to the police for inexistent contraventions , another 52 year old guy got sacked and feels useless, another is never happy with the upkeep of her house, another forty something unmarried woman was depressed because she could never find Mr Right , after she got married she killed herself at the age of around fifty, leaving two well adorable children and a loving husband.
On second thoughts; taking life too seriously could be a common factor.It seems that depression never affects happy-go-lucky people.
BTW :Should the healthy ask for the divorce from their sick partners?
[Daphne – Divorce is NOT a quick fix.Why on earth would a healthy person want to divorce a spouse who is ill? What does that have to do with the price of eggs? People seek divorce for one of two reasons only (1) they no longer love their spouse, or (2) their spouse no longer loves them. There is only one reason why a man would regularly and cruelly assault his wife: he is a violent sadist. We are not speaking here about a man who lost his temper after being taunted, picked up something and threw it in a rare moment of loss of self-control. We are speaking about a man who made a habit of pummelling his wife and who encouraged their son to do the same. And please explain to me how your forty-something friend went on to marry and have two children, before killing herself at 50 and leaving, presumably, two babies: did she adopt them, use donor eggs, or what? Or is she just a figment of your imagination?]
I was going to write well educated,erase the ‘well’ pls?
Quote: “Could it be that the man never accepted that his wife was mentally sick, and being uneducated about the matter only made things worse?
A normal man, if he can’t accept mental illness in his wife, would seek help and counselling. Yes, taking care of a depressed person requires skills that do not come naturally to everyone.
A less courageous man would at the very least separate from his wife and inform someone about her condition, if he can’t deal with her problems himself. At least this would give a chance for others to help.
A total excuse for a man would habitually beat her up for that would be the “macho” thing to do.
However, this is all crap. I would bet on him being the source of her depression. Who wouldn’t be depressed, living with such a violent sod?
[Daphne – That’s exactly what I think: that he and her life with him are the cause of her depression.]
@ Daphne : “And please explain to me how your forty-something friend went on to marry and have two children, before killing herself at 50 and leaving, presumably, two babies: did she adopt them, use donor eggs, or what? Or is she just a figment of your imagination?”
We were not friends.I only stated facts for which I don’t have explanations
“Why on earth would a healthy person want to divorce a spouse who is ill ?” Because selfish people are always around .I know of a case of a man who got very sick and was abandoned by his wife, and this happened in post war Malta.
If you want details I give them to you , but would they convince you? I don’t need lies to support my arguments.
My childhood was dominated by a broken marraige due to mental illness. All my life I’ve known my mother to be ill. So I know a thing or two about mental illness and broken marraiges
Forty years ago it was considered a stigma to be mentally ill. So when my mother suferred P.N.D after her first child (with a track record of mental illness in her family) no-one bothered about her, until she deteriorated so much that finally my father realized she needed help. She was diagnosed with scizophrenia, denied she was ill, and used to flush her pills down the loo. She is today a patient at mount carmel.
My point is that with all the ignorance around in those days, my father tried with his limits to help and try to cure her with the best professional help which was available. It was very hard for him to bring up three young children on his own, without outside help, since he kept this as a closed secret.With a business to run, and coming home to find a dirty, untidy home with three unkept children, it surely wasn’t easy. Not once did he resort to violence or abuse, regardless of the verbal abuse he got day in, day out from my mother, due to her paranoia.
In these situations, it’s not easy to pass judgement. Both my parents suffered tremendously, my mother through her illness, and my father through the circumstances.By far it is not easy to live with a mentally ill person and there is a limit to one’s patience. But violence is definately never excused.
[Daphne – I am sorry to hear this, Janine, and particularly sympathetic because a dear friend, also with three children, suffered a similar condition and ended up killing herself at the age of just 31.]
@ Janine: your experience which you shared with us throws a lot of light on married persons who have to bear the brunt alone. I sympathise with you.
@ Daphne : I am sorry for your dear friend’s tragic death.
[Daphne – I don’t like your assumption that it was the husband who was bearing the brunt. Janine made the point that BOTH her parents were suffering in their own way, as were the children.]