Please listen to this
Published:
October 15, 2008 at 3:49pm
Our experience is not unique
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This should be shown in schools.
It should be posted everywhere especially on the Times site since the most hateful comments by readers are printed!
That is exactly spot on. It’s actually scary knowing we share the island/work place/church/wherever, where people still think that by sitting near to an immigrant you will get a disease.
The contents of this clip might be true but the way Mrs. Burdett diminishes the problems related to immigrants coming from Africa (in our case) sheds a different light all together on the matter.
Just to tackle one of the points mentioned, Mrs. Burdett said that it is not true that illegal immigrants are carriers of diseases. Could you please explain the statistics found within this site?
http://www.avert.org/worldstats.htm
Most of the AIDS/HIV related cases come from Sub Saharan Africa, and this is not a release by the KKK but by International AIDS Charity.
[Daphne – There are only three ways to get HIV: having unprotected sex with somebody who has it already; sharing contaminated needles when injecting yourself with heroin, or being given contaminated blood in a medical transfusion. The last is now out of the question in European hospitals, and with the first two, you only have yourself to blame. You can live in a country where 99% of the population is infected with HIV and still not get it. But I bet you knew that and are just being disingenuous.]
If ours isn’t a unique experience, then we should expect this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C14KxEKGAZE&feature=related
[Daphne – Oh, for heaven’s sake.]
D: If its not possible to get a disease I wonder why soldiers handling new arrivals wear protective masks. I suppose maltese vaccinate their children just for the fun of it.
[Daphne – They wear masks because in Malta it’s always all systems go when it comes to taking panic-inducing measures. I never see any aid workers or military personnel wearing masks in rescue operations in Spain and Italy. Our soldiers must be of the Michael Jackson School of Breathing Germs. It is precisely because you are vaccinated that you can’t get those diseases. It is actually people from Africa who have most to fear from our germs, given that the flu virus can be extremely dangerous to those who have not been exposed to it.]
@Daphne: Not all vaccinations eliminate the risk, some just reduce the risk of disease. Re use of masks by military personnel in Spain and Italy check again. A quick search for pictures of illegal immigrant arrivals show this is common in other countries too and is probably recommended by health officials. The point is that the possibility of tranmission of diseases which had been eradicated from this country is not simply science fiction.
[Daphne – Do please listen to that video again, particularly the bit about disease.]
Please see this:
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen/07c/exposing_adl_091307.html
The ADL is a Jewish group full of hatred,do not be fooled by their youtube video.
[Daphne – Quote from your quote: “But what’s really offensive is that what’s being marketed as “anti-hate” is actually a radical left-wing agenda: a saturation of anti-traditional values – militantly pro-homosexual, and fiercely anti-Christian – with a heavy dose of intimidation against anyone who disagrees.” Where is that kind of criticism coming from, do you think? Something akin to our religious right?]
Ivan Magro Dingli & A. Camilleri:
See today’s issue of Malta Today midweek. Page 2 reports on the number of infections found among immigrants. Some of those who were infected with TB caught the disease in detention. Over a four-year span, 38 people were found to be HIV positive – not 30%, as has been suggested elsewhere on the comments boards of this blog.
@Corrine. And who do you suppose the immigrants in detention got infected from?
[Daphne – Quite obviously another person in detention. But that’s an argument against the detention of those who are ill with those who are not, and not an argument against human beings.]
@A. Camilleri.
Police wear protective masks as the stench must be unbearable. These people sitting in a boat for days without washing tend to smell. So would we of pure Maltese blood stink if we do not wash for a few days.
A Camilleri :
By sitting in the same place on the bus as one of these humans, sharing the same breathing space, talking to them WILL NOT put me at a greater risk to catching an infection. If someone has unprotected sex with any human of any race (be it black, white or Asian) you are exposing yourself to risks. I am no police expert but I would not imagine these people to be squeaky clean when they arrive as Mr Gatt pointed out.
But I would have thought these basic concepts are common knowledge to most of our nation….apparently not…
edgar gatt :
What’s Maltese pure blood? :)
The ADL is not a far-left group at all. They are simply paranoid and lash out at ANYONE who they consider anti-Jewish, even if that person or group is not anti-Jewish at all. They even attack jews!
Once we’re posting links, here’s an interesting documentary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuK1ijXRs-Q&feature=related (this is part 1 of 5)
@ Corrine Vella / Daphne
What about Hepatitis? You cannot tell what kind of diseases they might carry.
Why don’t you go tell these things to the nurses? Both my parents were nurses up till a couple of years ago and they used to undertake all kind of intimidation from prisoners (both Maltese and foreign), illegal immigrants, drug addicts (Maltese and foreign)…. You name it.
These persons used to instil doubts as to whether they are infected or not. Prevention is better than cure especially in these cases. Why are you finding it so hard to accept that AFM / Police / Aid Workers etc wear protective gear? What if they get infected…. They would be accused of negligence.
Just to mention one instant, drug addicts who used to be accompanied by police when going for a hospital visit. As soon as the police removed the handcuffs for the visit by the doctors, they used to cut their hands and obviously expose blood and threaten the hospital staff that if they come close they will spit or throw blood at them. Why risk? You might tell me that you won’t get infected that way but again, why take the risk?
Nowadays these same situations are happening with some illegal immigrants whom under the spree of protesting within closed / open centres, at hospitals, etc revert to such actions.
[Daphne – Hepatitis is contagious in the same way HIV is: in other words, you’re not going to get it by breathing the same air as somebody on a bus. If you’re going to have sex with a stranger, use a condom, and if you’re going to inject yourself with heroin, don’t share your needle. If your parents were nurses, they should have told you this, and if they don’t know it themselves, they’re not nurses. And for crying out loud, stop being so dramatic. There are enough real problems in life without working yourself up into a frenzy about imagined dragons.]
D: If its not possible to get a disease I wonder why soldiers handling new arrivals wear protective masks. I suppose maltese vaccinate their children just for the fun of it
As these people are very obviously of a different genetic makeup to ours they may have evolved resistance to certain viruses and bacteria to which have never been exposed. It obviously works both ways.
When the Spaniards invaded Central America in the 16th Century they killed off loads of the natives with a virus which is not life threatening to us. (I believe it was the cold or chicken pox).
But this has nothing to do with racism or hatred. It’s simply a sensible precaution. If anyone commenting here watches any football, one will notice that medical staff wear rubber gloves when coming into contact with players ON THEIR OWN team …
@Edgar Gatt
Pure Maltese blood???????? HA HA HA HA HA HA – good one! We are , to put it bluntly, a race of mongrels and we should be proud of it! It makes us tougher!
[Daphne – I kind of think Edgar was being ironic…..]
Alex, what’s your agenda? Israel and the Jewish people have absolutely nothing to do with this discussion.
No agenda at all Matthew. Someone mentioned the Anti-Defamation League and I felt I should clear up some misconceptions. Before you accuse me of anti-semitism I’ll have you know that that AIPAC and the ADL do not represent Jewish people (in Israel or anywhere) but a small group of special interest lobbyists with alot of power. That’s all, I know it’s off topic. Sorry.
Matthew,the ADL is a Jewish organisation,duh!
[Daphne – The fact that an organisation is set up and run by people who are Jewish does not make it a ‘Jewish organisation’ – no more than this is a Catholic blog because it was set up and run by somebody who was raised a Catholic. And no more than the grocer up the road is a ‘Catholic grocery’ because the man who runs it, unlike me, practises that religion.]
I’m sorry Daphne, would you dip your bare hand in infected blood with HIV / AIDS / Hepatitis?
Why do you have to be so blunt in your replies? I told you that I know you shouldn’t get infected so please read carefully before commenting. As I said, prevention is better than cure.
If you consider the truth to be dramatic than that is your perception and not mine. What should we discuss? What Joseph Muscat had for breakfast or what Joseph Muscat did while in bed with his wife? These are the sort of arguments you like to tackle but since it is your blog, you can do that.
[Daphne: In answer to your question: no, and I don’t have sex with strangers or inject myself with heroin, either. Nobody is forcing anyone else to dip their bare hands in infected blood, though for all I know it might be a niche fetish that I haven’t yet heard about. I’m not blunt. I’m straightforward. This is the way the entire democratic west communicates, with the exception of Italy and Malta. Get used to it. More might be coming at you pretty fast.]
Also listen and watch this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNMTqoI2dCs&feature=related
Personally the only problem I see with illegal immigration from Malta’s point of view is the fact that like everything in life, even Malta has a capacity limit and we cannot take on endless numbers…and that is why the burden sharing principle is so important.
Beyond that any other prejudice based on the skin colour or culture of these people is many times based on misinformation, bad perceptions or even fear. It is funny to think that before Malta joined the EU, Malta was to be invaded by the Sicilians!
“I’m not blunt. I’m straightforward.”
Personally I like blunt as long as it’s the truth! It makes communication so much easier!
Hehehe, I assume that with your last sentence you were referring to the Charmed ones lol…. Yourself, Corrine and Amanda lol
Daphne, my question was not a result of fetish thoughts but rather an argument opposed to your statement of my parents and myself not being informed about the way you get infected with HIV / AIDS etc etc etc Those are the words you muttered in this blog as a reply to my contribution (for everyone to see). I’m sure that nobody would be happy to be spat at or used as a target for blood splatters especially if the guy is a confirmed case of an HIV / AIDS / etc virus carrier!
[Daphne – You don’t get HIV through saliva. Please tell your parents, especially if they are nurses. And what exactly is the incidence of HIV-infected people cutting themselves so as to threaten nurses? I’m very curious.]
I meant Corinne, sorry for the mistake.
Oh my God Daphne, come on, you want to play games! When I mentioned Saliva I was referring to Hepatitis (check the flippin post). Why do you have to twist and turn my comments?
I’m no doctor but I do read from time to time, a quick search on Google resulted in the following link
http://menshealth.about.com/cs/diseases/a/hepatitis_4.htm
Here you can verify that Hepatitis can be transmitted through Saliva too, happy? It is not only transmitted as you stated: –
[Daphne – Hepatitis is contagious in the same way HIV is: in other words, you’re not going to get it by breathing the same air as somebody on a bus. If you’re going to have sex with a stranger, use a condom, and if you’re going to inject yourself with heroin, don’t share your needle.
What about newborns from infected parents to mention another much more real situation?
[Daphne – You know, this is getting very tiresome. And you are beginning to sound like a 1950s working-class Scottish housewife with all your talk of germ-ridden foreigners. So please….]
The sort of thing we MUST avoid as a country is when we get a man who is university educated in England (a melting pot of all cultures) being interviewed at a bus stop in B’Bugia and saying he does not want to share the buses with these people as they have diseases and stink. One can’t get infected by hepatisis /HIV/ and STD just by sharing seating space.
I’ve heard mothers on bus stops/ shops warning their children not to stay next to them ghax huma mahmugghin.
Why is a women when seen anywhere with a black man irrelevant of the nationality she is seen as a whore?
Why in certain establishments they are refused entry?
Why was there a certain immigration supervisor at the airport that wherever he feels like he deports a group of arab/african persons even if they have the correct visas?
If these are not acts of racism based solely on skin colour then I do not know which world you are living in.
Daphne, since you might judge a comment printed in menshealth magazine as not being reliable, below is a link which sheds a lot of light on this particular matter ‘Care of Health Care Workers’ published by WHO
http://www.wpro.who.int/sars/docs/practicalguidelines/dec2004/chapter5.pdf
Page two might interest you.
[Daphne – Care workers and hospital employees are by definition exposed to illness and disease on a routine basis. It doesn’t have to be from Africans. By far the greatest danger posed in Maltese hospitals right now is not a virus, but a bacterial infection, MRSA – and it didn’t begin to spread in Africa, but in the UK, through poor hygiene as a result of the lax cleaning methods used in recent years. If people don’t want to risk their lives, they shouldn’t become soldiers. And if people don’t want to be exposed to disease, then they shouldn’t become doctors, paramedics or care workers.]
Ok Daphne, whatever, at least I appreciate the fact that you still post my comments in full (without censorship). Thanks for that. In a minute I guess I’ll have to face the wrath of your sister Corinne Vella!
I don’t want to bother you any longer so I’ll go back to my housework before my Scottish husband comes back from work …. :P
David Buttigieg.
But why did Daphne have to point it out to you that I was being ironic when I said pure Maltese blood.? You give the impression that you are a little bit slow.
Seems some of you like Youtube videos.
Another video one for you here.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/456363/khallid_muhammads_speech_kill_the_white_man/
[Daphne – Oh dear, there you go again, using one individual to represent millions who don’t agree with him. Aren’t there white men who preach that we should kill The Black Man? God forbid they should be taken to represent white people everywhere.]
I have never seen any evidence like this.Please provide some.Never has a white person spoken like this man,he advocates genocide against white people.He is not the only Black person in recent years to do so.Another one here.I will never share in your dream.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WmsZGOlEUM
[Daphne – No? How about your Norman Lowell for one? Oh sorry, he’s isn’t white, strictly speaking.]
How about Norman Lowell?
Provide the evidence I asked for that genocide of Blacks has ever been advocated by Lowell or anyone else.
You cannot provide anything other than nauseating babble.
[Daphne – I have provided reams of it in court, and have no intention of repeating the process here. Just read his ramblings on the Viva Malta forum. If you find my babble so nauseating, run off and play with your little friends.]
Brigantes:
1. Why are you in front of your computer and not showing your face behind Josie’s parade?
2. Since you evidently prefer to stay home rather than stand up for what you believe in, here a book for you to read – it’s called On Bullshit by Harry Frankfurt. It should serve you well.
I find some things written on this subject disconcerting, to say the least. We are supposed to be a nation of Christians, holier than the pope, defenders of the fate, and such tripe. Oh and we pride ourselves of being a friendly and courteous folk – SURE.
The truth is that when one sifts through the comments written (not only here, but also on the TOM for example), one gets the feeling of being in some budding Fourth Reich.
I read claims being made along the lines of Malta having reached saturation point. I smile at the image of people now being stacked on top of each other a mile high in our fair land.
I read claims being made that these people bring ill health and a myriad of diseases with them. Again I smile at the image of what these people would say should ALL travel to and from Malta be banned, using as reason the same health concerns.
The problem as I see it is that we think along the lines of “us” and “them”. In this modern age we cannot afford to think along these lines. We are all members of a single community, a multicultural, multicoloured, multireligious one. This community is not Malta, and nor is it Europe. We are citizens of the world, and should be striving to exist, and to coexist. The actions of one person in a far away country may easily have a ripple effect throughout the world.
We live in a world that is passing through dark and difficult times, and while some people may find solace in reacting with horror about a boatload of people which they perceive as being the most important event in their own little world, well folks that is a misconception. There are people living on this big blue marble who as you read this are dying of hunger, and of thirst. People are still being murdered, raped and tortured for not belonging to a particular creed or race, or just for being different, or weaker.
Most people know the quotation “No man is an Island”. Fewer however know the context in which that originates. So just in case anybody is interested, here goes:
“All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language; and every chapter must be so translated…As therefore the bell that rings to a sermon, calls not upon the preacher only, but upon the congregation to come: so this bell calls us all: but how much more me, who am brought so near the door by this sickness….No man is an island, entire of itself…any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.”
John Donne
@ Corinne:
According to my research immigrants are not routinely screened for HIV unless they are pregnant, in which case it is compulsory. They are routinely screened for TB.
Under these circumstances the number 38 is totally irrelevant.
http://ws5.e-vision.nl/systeem3/images/A%20united%20Europe%20a%20shared%20concern.pdf
@ Corinne:
According to my research immigrants are not routinely screened for HIV unless they are pregnant, in which case it is compulsory. They are routinely screened for TB.
Under these circumstances the number 38 is totally irrelevant.
[Daphne – What are you advocating? Something hideous like the processing chambers on Ellis Island in New York a hundred years ago? I cried all the way through the documentary at the museum there, and despite all the scrubbing and the fact that the place is now open to the public as an immigration museum, the very walls are saturated with misery. The air is thick with sadness and you can almost hear people crying and shouting down the years. It’s awful.]
I.M.Dingli
“…you can verify that Hepatitis can be transmitted through Saliva too,…”
You’d better not go French kissing any immigrants then.
Seriously, if you had checked the second item in your google search rather than just the first, you’d have found that although the virus has been found in saliva, its transmission via this route is still unclear.
We have about as much chance of getting infected from immigrants as we have from tourists. It’s true that some diseases are more widespread in Africa but, on the other hand, we get only two and a half thousand immigrants and well over one million tourists (and they mix a lot more with the Maltese) so I’d say the odds even out somewhat. I don’t see anyone protesting about tourist arrivals.
@ Daphne: Not at all, dear. Have I said anything to that effect? I am simply pointing out that quoting numbers when one does not have screening of 100% of the group is useless. Accuracy is important if we are to be credible.
And I am not pointing this out only because I would be interested in accurate statistical data (it’s useless having it when you do things in half measures), either.
Wouldn’t you prefer it if all immigrants were screened for HIV, as they are for TB? That way, if they are found to be positive something can be done about it in the way of treatment, which brings with it the opportunity to prolong life.
Marku,I was told to stay away by Josie,so I did.
[Daphne – Good one: he told his own supporters to stay away. Does he think he has support from anyone but racists and xenophobes?]
@ Brigantes:
“Marku,I was told to stay away by Josie,so I did”.
What a good boy! Mummy must be proud.
[Daphne – His leader Norman didn’t stay away, though, did he? Kemm waqa baxx Josie.]
Kenneth Cassar.
I have no leader,I am a free man,a free thinker whereas you are a dreamer,a marxist brainwashed nothing.
[Daphne – Form an orderly queue, ladies.]
@ Brigantes:
Apologies for thinking that “I was told to stay away by Josie, so I did” actually means “I was told to stay away by Josie, so I did”.
As for being a Marxist…surprise…surprise…I am definitely not. Che Guevara was a deluded fool who thought that the ends justify the means and Stalin was a tyrant just as much as Hitler was.
As for being a dreamer, what makes you think so?
One thing is for sure. I am not a piss-in-the-pants coward like you. I do not hide my name when insulting people.
Brigantes / Athena – I think that you’d feel more at home surrounded by like-minded people. Here are a couple of suggestions (although I do not feel in the least bit comfortable promoting their sites):
http://www.vivamalta.org/main/
http://www.imperium-europa.org/
I. M. Dingli – Your statement (about Africans) that “you never know what kind of diseases they are carrying” (or something to that effect) does not hold water, because the same could be said for anyone else you encounter on a daily basis.
In 1986 (which was, I believe, when Aids/HIV was “discovered”), a popular magazine ran a title on its cover saying “Turn to page XX to see what a person with Aids/HIV looks like”. Page XX had no picture on it, but it was simply a mirror. Unless you’ve got a pea for a brain, that should tell you that your argument does not make sense.
Brigantes: you claim to be a free man and a free thinker yet you stayed away from Josie’s parade like a good boy because he told you so. You can feel free to call me a Marxist since I have actually read Marx (have you?).
I. M. Dingli – “What about newborns from infected parents to mention another much more real situation?”
You seem to be unaware that the same situation can – and does – arise regarding Maltese children. The only confirmed case of hepatitis I know of is that of a (white) Nordic woman married to a Maltese man. She went on to have at least two (presumably healthy) offspring after being diagnosed.
My dear Amanda Mallia, if you had the decency to follow all the comments I posted together with the relative replies by Daphne, you would notice the way the discussion evolved, but you just read a couple of words here and there (like Africans, illegal, diseases), than for obvious reasons, you jumped to the conclusion that it doesn’t make sense.
You quoted me as saying the following: – ‘I. M. Dingli – Your statement (about Africans) that “you never know what kind of diseases they are carrying” (or something to that effect) does not hold water, because the same could be said for anyone else you encounter on a daily basis’.
Amanda please read all my comments once more maybe you will understand them the second time round. I never said what you are implying above.
We were discussing the contents of the clip which your sister pointed out and obviously since it concerned illegal immigrants, they are the subject but wait…. I did refer to ‘prisoners (both Maltese and foreign), illegal immigrants, drug addicts (Maltese and foreign)….’ What do you think, was I just talking about the African illegal immigrants?
@I. M. Dingli
Well this is really cool; I’m addressing myself since someone opted to use my name instead of his.
Anyway, my dear friend you choose to point out a particular sentence from a couple of paragraphs so the whole meaning is twisted they way you read it.
Please read it again maybe you will understand the meaning in the context within which I was using it.
Guys,
I cannot see all the videos from you tube that you are posting. The site keeps telling me ‘this video is not available anymore’. Can anyone help? Thanks
[Daphne – I’ve just checked them via the domain rather than just through the ‘control room’ and everything is fine. They come up when I click on them. Try copying the link and pasting it into your browser.]
@ Darren – YouTube has had that problem for the past 3 or so months. I think the problem is more common with OnVol users. If you check back after a few minutes, the video will usually work.
Daphne & Bormann, thanks for your help.