Il-lejla ghal ma' Barney il-Belt
I suppose they switched the manifestazzjoni to Friday so that those who are going to manifest themselves in Republic Street can make a harga of it instead of clogging up the Burmarrad Road to Bugibba like they usually do, spending all the money they don’t have on diesel, beer and an ikla tajba meta johorgu l-mara u t-tfal (mill-kaberd).
Typical thinking: iss hej, mela jien se ninqala mmur il-Belt nimmanifesta ruhi il-Hamis meta ghandi x-xoghol l-ghada u t-tfal ghandhom l-iskola. Jekk m’ghandhiex. Imur jimmanifesta ruhu dak Zarb minnflok. Mhux hu li jithallas biex jidher?
Suddenly, the demo is switched to Friday: Hawn, Mer, tghid immorru nimmanifestaw l-Belt il-Gimgha, minnflok naghmlu bhas-soltu u ninzlu sa Bugibba? Majtezwel, xi tghid?
47 Comments Comment
Reply to Grace Click here to cancel reply
“Joseph ħaqqek prosit, mhux għax irrid infaħħrek imma dejjem qed toħroġna ta’ nies. L-istess għamilt fir-risposta tiegħek għall-Baġit fil-Parlament u fuq Bondi Plus… Prosit Ġuż.”
http://www.l-orizzont.com/news.asp?newsitemid=48827
Mid-djarju ta’… Silvio Parnis (MLP) – l-orizzont 14/11/08
milli jidher tal-mlp jikkontentaw bix-xejn .. il-fatt li ma jaqawx ghac-cajt diga bizzejjed
[Daphne – Just the sort of comment you would expect from a 1980s hipster who’s still gelling his hair and revving up the old ladies.]
Ir-ragel: “Doris, arahom daqxej tal-Labour u Tony x’jipprotestaw …. nghid ghalija niehu gost inhallas kontijiet gholjin, allura hekk hemm bzonn hux!”
Doris: “Mela hi, dawk fi zmienhom laqqas cikkulata ma kellna, ara issa ghandna l-erkondixin, il-mowbajl, l-internettt, u avolja xi kultant ma jkollniex biex inhallsuhom, imma aw il-gid issa hux…”
Ganni (ir-ragel): “Dor, tinsiex x’qalilna Gonzi li l-finanzi fis-sod, jien rasi mistrieha, avolja llum il-maniger qalli li l-post tax-xol tieghi qieghed f’riskju … heqq allura tghid mhux se nivvota Labour”
Doris: “ahna l-gvern dejjem taghna hi, nissawtu u niehdu pjacir”
It’s not barney….there are lots anf lots of unions out there!
Apart from the pn, you are the only one supporting this budget and therefore not criticising this real big “hnizrija” about W&E!
[Daphne – I believe in paying for what I use, not in paying for what others use, unless they are truly in need.]
Ha ha….ur quite unique Daphne.. ma nafx min fejn iggibhom. u can switch to website of times of malta.. there is a small video with some comments… apparently only the leaders of the unions were there . plus guess who KMB… dont know what he had to say about this…
You’re out of touch Daffy.
You want some news… there were TWENTY UNIONS together. Labour supporters and PN supporters, clapping for barney, Gejtu ta’ Gonzi and co.
You should try and get out of your couch and get a life.
[Daphne – 20 unions, indeed. The organisation of this ‘manifestation’ operated on the Gift of Life petition principle: if you’re not there, you’re a baby-killer.]
erm, WE, apparently you’re not off yours since you’re not out manifesting hehe
I’m sure gejtu ta’ gonzi will not be happy with your comment.
[Daphne – Er, so?]
Until today I used to think that Daphne’s comments re. Labour supporters and Joseph Muscat were slightly exaggerated. This changed when I was passing through Valletta this evening during the protest or whatever it is, and, after seeing Joseph Muscat pass by in his black 159, one female supporter in her 50s remarked (amidst a lot of clapping from the other supporters) “Iiiiii arah qisu bambin Joseph”. God. Unbelievable. Kelli aptit insabbat rasi ma hajt.
20 unions may indeed have met and taken part in a manifestation. However I still remember 7 weeks in late 1984 when I went on strike and was locked out and no sympathy was shown to me by the “brother” union GWU. I did not attend today`s manifestation. I cannot and I will not march by the side of the GWU however right its reasons for protesting may be.
Some union leaders would do well to leaf through ‘The TEACHER’ (issues no.12 and 13).
I haven’t forgotten those days, I cannot forget. If the GWU is present, I stay away.
Quite a flop from what I could see on television.
If all these twenty unions wanted was a meeting with the Prime Minister, a letter would have been enough.
We have a Prime Minister who really doesn’t need to be frightened into a meeting – all they needed do was ask.
Twenty, though, can be quite unwieldy – that’s why a Trades Union Congress might come in handy. If the GWU has managed to get Gejtu Vella to this protest demo, then perhaps a TUC is closer than we might think. I bet a euro its first President will be Tony Zarb – he has enough sweeteners to offer Gejtu.
It’s not a matter that we pay for what we use…it’s a matter of starting to invest in candles or not!! In a few years, we can also throw the fridge away too!
People will realise the impact of this ‘hanzirata’ when they receive the first bill.
[Daphne – I agree that it’s not going to be easy, but we have been too spoilt for too long. We have never had to cope with harsh reality, as our counterparts do in other parts of Europe, where the monthly electricity bill is a real burden rather than a throwaway expense. We have always had high electricity bills with five people in the house (and no airconditioning or electric heaters or anything like that) but then when you divide the total by five and work it out per head, it’s not that high at all. Most people think of it as high because the bill goes to one person and comes out of one salary, even if there are five or even six adults living in the house. To get a sense of perspective, we have to break it down per capita. Please don’t be so melodramatic. This is real life we’re talking about. I remember being astonished a few years ago when a friend complained that she had received a Lm20 bill for electricity – for three months. Twenty pounds! she said. My god! There were two adults in her house, Lm10 a head. Having grown up in a home of six people and then living in a home of five, I didn’t even know that there were such things as Lm20 electricity bills. I had taken it for granted that they always ran into the Lm100+ category. So really, it’s all about perspective, and understanding that nothing is free and that if you don’t pay for it, somebody else has to.]
illum vera kienet gurnata storika…protesta ta ghoxrin union u kien hemm nies daqs kemm jkun hemm fuq il Monti.
@il kanna
first of all yesterday it was a real raining day and therefore lots of people didn’t go for this very reason.
Regarding Daphne’s last reply…..ok at least you admitted that it’s going to be very difficult …at least! However, dont try to compare our country to others….if their bills are much more than ours, even their pay is much and much more than ours! …. If our wage is increased like other countries, then it’s no problem we can afford to pay this ‘hanzirata’ but as long as our wage in such a country is miserable (always comparing to european countries), then government should be aware of this and find a compromise!
[Daphne – The idea that pay in ‘other countries’ is much higher than it is in Malta is fiction. It all depends on what you do. I think people didn’t turn up not because of the rain, but because this exercise was a duplication of last week’s. I imagine the same people didn’t feel like going twice, and I don’t blame them. Wages don’t ‘get increased’. The market sets them.]
Until a few days ago, I really did think the price hike was inevitable . That was until I heard the chairman of Enemalta reveal that the major inefficiency was not excessive labour but the great inefficiencies in power production at the Marsa power station. I believed he mentioned something like 35% losses versus an industry standard of 15%. Enemalta has been one of the weakest govt corporations for many years, perhaps on par with Malta shipyards. So it is rather shameful that investment in new power generation took a back seat to other “investments” – like Dar Malta.
Nothing is free Daphne, well said. Nevertheless, it is my view that the rates for water nd electricity should be periodically adjusted to reflect the fluctuations in the international price of oil, the costs for Enemalata and Water Services to produce and distribute the utility services and maintain the system plus a degree of profit.
The oil market, like any other market involves risk. As one of the end users of the oil purchased by Enemalta, I am prepared to be party to this risk, provided that the entity acting on my behalf which in this case is the government (or Enemalta) can demonstrate sound judgement at all times.
Whilst it is fair that I pay for all my consumption, I am very reluctant to pay additional money to cater for the poor judgement of those responsible for ensuring that Malta purchases oil at the right time and at the best price.
It seems to me that somebody has taken a very unwise decision at some point during the pat six months and the buck has been passed onto the consumers, and that includes you and the other four in your household, my dear Daphne.
Cheers!
[Daphne – That’s why it’s so ironic that the people out protesting aren’t the ones doing the paying. Maybe somebody should point out to them that it’s not il-gvern who pays for their healthcare and children’s schooling and tertiary education, but the people who send their children to private schools and use private healthcare.]
But market depends on economy and government policies related to this. It’s a chain; everything is linked.
Wages in european countries are much more than ours…it isn’t fiction, it’s the truth. For example a doctor in malta is not paid as a doctor in UK….and it applies for all jobs. As I said before, if wages are not equivalent to those of EU countries, then don’t compare their taxes to ours; even though at the moment unfortunately can be compared very well!!!
David S, I agree. I do not mind paying for consuming water and electricity or to help subsidize really needy families. I hate to think though that the hefty fuel bill I have to pay is make up for inefficiencies that should and could have been dealt with these past two decades. This is what the majority of people are really cheesed off about.
“[Daphne – The idea that pay in ‘other countries’ is much higher than it is in Malta is fiction. It all depends on what you do. I think people didn’t turn up not because of the rain, but because this exercise was a duplication of last week’s. I imagine the same people didn’t feel like going twice, and I don’t blame them. Wages don’t ‘get increased’. The market sets them.]”
No one seems to have taken in consideration the fact that most self-employed work until seven pm or later and would be uwilling to lose an afternoon/evening’s worth of work to take part in any form of demonstration.
Daphne, my last posting seems to have been deleted. maybe by mistake or maybe it was irrelevant. here it is again, in case it was a simple mistake
‘The idea that pay in ‘other countries’ is much higher than it is in Malta is fiction.’ – Daphne
What?!! Please refer to:
http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/eiro/studies/tn0804019s/tn0804019s.htm
thanks
Hope: Pay ‘in Europe’ varies from job to job and country to country. If you wanted to switch countries, rather than jobs, to improve your wage, you’d have to ask yourself which country you mean. If you’re thinking of places such as Germany or Scandinavian countries, then you also need to think of the taxes payable and the work ethic, both of which are more demanding than they are here.
Sybil: That observation can be inverted. It’s so much easier to protest when someone else is paying.
Pay here in Vienna is a bit better than in Malta, generally speaking, though indeed it depends on what you do. Starting wages are around €1300 – €1400 per month for skilled or clerical work, going up to about €1800 – €2200 with (years of) experience. Managerial positions start at about €2000 and go up to €5000 – €7000 whilst top executives rake in fairly obscene amounts like €30000 to €60000 monthly and sometimes even more. Bear in mind, however that at this level we’re talking about huge corporations with 10,000 to 60,000 employees and budgets where you lose track of the zeroes. Here you get 14 salaries a year – a whole month’s bonus in June and December, please note.
Supermarket prices are roughly the same (there’s Lidl here too of course) but a lot of other things are much more expensive – especially where labour is involved. Mechanics, technicians and repair-people cost a fortune. A bread bun (panina) or roll costs 30 cents and a typical half kilo loaf about €2.60. Milk is €1 per litre. Bars are more expensive – a beer is about €3.50 a pint and a cappuccino about the same.
Electricity and heating (gas) came to about €1500 for our two-person household, but we skimped as much as possible. Our neighbours, with a small child and who are at home a lot more, paid almost double that. Prices went up in July and we expect 2009 to cost up to 10% more.
Shoes, clothes and personal care products are also about the same, like with like, but there is a wider range and you can buy cheaper stuff too.
If anyone would like to compare prices of anything particular, please ask and I’ll try to do so.
The comparison of super market prices and the cost of beer is an interesting way to pass the time, but it doesn’t answer the question of who should pay for our consumption of water and energy supplies to our homes. That’s the issue here, isn’t it?
If the discussion were about the cost of living – which is where the prices of consumer goods and services are relevant – then the question would be different: how can I earn more and how can I cut costs? Usually, moving to another country is a drastic and long term solution to what may turn out to be an adjustment problem.
“there’s Lidl here too of course”
My condolences.
@ Corinne. I was just supplying more info about differences in earnings and expenses here in Vienna, since a lot of people seem to think that salaries are much higher in Europe than in Malta. Now readers are better informed.
I also gave some info on electricity and heating costs. It’s pathetically obvious that the consumer should – with few exceptions – pay what for he/she consumes. Frankly I don’t know why this point should even need discussion.
@ Pat. Why condolences?
@ David S – remember who was against the building of the Delimara power station – can you imagine where we would be today without it?
The inefficiencies of the Marsa Power Station are due to the fact that it is old – govt is investing over EUR200M in an extension of the Delimara Power station so that Marsa can be closed down.
What exactly is the consumer paying for. Are we expected to pay for the stolen or lost electricity and water? Are we expected to pay for extravagant cars, parties etc? I didn’t mind seeing this sort of thing happening before, but I sure hope EVERYONE will give his share to the sacrifice we are expected to make. Attention Austin Gatt, I don’t want to pay for your JAQUAR!
[Daphne – The whole point of the exercise, Grace, is precisely that – everyone pays for what he consumes, except for those several thousand families who claim to be in need of help and will continue to get it. You may not want to pay for ‘Austin’s JAQUAR’ and I may not want to pay for your children’s schooling, but tough.]
“@ Pat. Why condolences?”
For Lidl. Hell on earth. I moved from Sweden approx. 2 months before they opened the first one there. I thought I had dodged the bullet, until they open three in Malta. Can not believe how a chain like that keep growing.
Tim Ripard: My comment wasn’t personal and yes, I agree, I can’t see why anyone should even feel the need to discuss who should pay for their utility bills.
Daphne, I completely agree with your statement that we all should pay for what we consume. We should all contribute to making good for the cost of producing electricity. I agree with the Nationalist government’s efforts to bring the price of water and electricity in line with the expense of producing these essential commodities.
On the same lines, I agreed with the Labour government’s utility rates hike in 1997, for the same reason mentioned above. In all probability, if the measures introduced by the Labour government back then, weren’t scrapped as soon as the PN made it to government in 1998, we wouldn’t be facing the problem that we’re faced with today.
However, the fact that you and I understand how the pricing strategies operate in these circumstances, doesn’t make it obvious that people out there are able to grasp the notions as easily as we do.
In fact, it is understandable that the rabble takes to the streets in protest, both when there’s the Labour Party in government, as well as when the country’s being run by the PN.
As I see it now, the only difference between the two Parties in government is that in 1998 Labour was not strong enough to convince elements within the Party to tow the Party line, leading to premature General Elections; today the Nationalist Party is a homogeneous entity, strong enough within itself to be able to introduce grossly unpopular measures and to steamroll ahead, defeating any attempt by its adversaries to bring it down.
Hats off to the NP!
Tim I also find it amusing that we’re even discussing who pays electricity and heating costs. Am I being naive here? If I use a service, then I have to pay the going rate. If I think it is too expensive, then I should try and either not use that service, which in this case is not an option, or try and cut down on it’s use. I don’t see the point in moaning about it! If that’s what electricity costs, then that’s what you have to pay. If someone was profiteering, then that’s another matter, but we’re not debating that here.
Pat, whatever your gripe about Lidl is, I assume no one forces you to buy there, so why is it hell on Earth? Just go elsewhere!
I’ve just read this Joseph Muscat quote in the times :
“A litre of petrol cost a Maltese worker 15 per cent of his hourly wage, much more than the six per cent of the hourly wage it cost a British worker, Labour leader Joseph Muscat said yesterday.”
Which is complete an utter bulls**t (excuse my French) That statistic is completely meaningless unless you tell me what the Maltese worker has to pay from the remaining 85% of his hourly wage, and what the British worker has to pay from his remaining 94%. You can’t just single out one thing. I could pick 100 items which in isolation would prove that same Maltese worker is better off than his British counterpart, but no one just buys one thing!
You are not paying for my children’s schooling – Maybe for my daughter’s who is at University, but not for my sons’ who are both studying at a private institution.
[Daphne – So you are paying for other people’s.]
@ Daphne & Grace : I would prefer ministers to lead by example, if Austin is driven around in a Jaguar he should replace it with a Hybrid car like a Toyota or a BMW , still luxurious as it fits a minister but not a fuel guzzler.
About payment for private schooling and medical services, I believe it would be just if these payments are deducted from income tax, after all people like Grace will be reducing the load from government entities which are ALWAYS inefficiently run .
On reading today’s Times I am starting to doubt Enemalta’s estimates, this work should have been done by the unions and the opposition party. Like Grace I don’t want to make good for €16 million avoidable losses.
One has to understand that running an old power station at 35% efficiency was acceptable thirty years ago but not acceptable with today’s technology (combined cycle at 45%).So stop blaming the government about taking decisions. “Wara kulhadd bravu”
Asking why we didn’t make the power station more efficient before is like my friend’s wife who is panicking because they didn’t install a solar water heater two years ago when they were cheaper.
BTW : How are you doing with your solar water heater, Daphne? Was it a good decision to invest in one?
[Daphne – My main argument against it was that it would produce really hot water when really hot water isn’t necessary, in summer. Meanwhile, when we need it – on dull, overcast days – it doesn’t perform. It doesn’t produce hot water, just warm water. So we have to use the electricity fall-back facility. The other problem is that the hot water takes so long to reach some of the taps that a whole lot of water is wasted until it begins to run hot.]
@ Daphne: I hope that the installers insulated the hot water pipes.
Heating up warm water costs less.
If today was a nice day when you don’t need hot water then you win the argument. But we use hot water all year round for free except on overcast days.I hope that you switch on the back up ‘facility’ when you need it.
[Daphne – Yes, it’s switched on only when we need it. The real problem is with the distance travelled to particular taps, which are a way away.]
“Pat, whatever your gripe about Lidl is, I assume no one forces you to buy there, so why is it hell on Earth? Just go elsewhere!”
It’s quite simple. I think bad quality, bad service and bad treatment of your staff are universally wrong. Sure, I don’t go there myself, but that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t criticise. Lidl have made it a point to offer a bad service to it’s customer, something I found out the hard way after visiting the store three times and each time leaving it with enormous frustration. That kind of behaviour should be criticised to a point where they feel the need to correct themselves (although with Lidl I feel it’s beyond them). Malta do have a problem with bad service in retail outlets and the last thing it needs is a foreign supermarket chain who, instead of showing them what good service is, sets an even worse example.
[Daphne – . You may not want to pay for ‘Austin’s JAQUAR’ and I may not want to pay for your children’s schooling, but tough.]
The MUT may not agree with that comparison though.The main raison d etre for providing free (subsidized by the tax payer) education seems to be mainly to provide jobs for teachers., educating children is largely coincidental.
@ Pat : they are being trained by MENEFREGHISTI
John Schembri:
That’s unfortunately a word which leaves me clueless. Do you mind explaining?
Pat – The Italian “me ne frego” could be quite liberally translated into “I don’t give a sh*t”. One could therefore assume that by “menefreghisti”, John Schembri is referring to people who … “don’t give a sh*t” about whatever it is he is going on about.
Pat,
if they are still in business, then they must be doing something right. Maybe it’s just price. Maybe you put quality of service above price, but obviously Lidl’s research says a lot of people prefer cheaper prices, and to hell with service. If there was no demand for it, they would not be as popular as they are.
Yes obviously. I’m not saying it’s not working, I’m just criticising the mentality of the chain. If I go into a store and get mistreated, I could simply walk away and not return, but in my books any store should be held responsible for the bad service they give.
@ Pat or anyone – I dont shop at Lidl. Out of interest, how are you mistreated? Is it true that the Italian staff are very abusive of locals. Or is it just the overcrowding etc at the shop that bothers you?
Pat said “any store should be held responsible for the bad service they give”
they usually are, by the customers going somewhere else. If that’s not happening, then obviously they have other things (price?) which mean people are prepared to take a little bad service.
“they usually are, by the customers going somewhere else.”
As well as people who they have mistreated spreading their misfortune to other people. It’s the way it works.
It’s a market economy, and the market will weed out the bad from good as long as there is no monopoly.