Malta responds with chivalry to the lepers in its midst
Here are some choice remarks posted beneath the news report on HIV cases in Malta, and the fact that 50% of them are African. Ah, but around 50% are homosexual non-African men, and can you just imagine if The Sunday Times had pointed that out instead?
Joe Xuereb
They are mostly young men with the pack instinct. Their friends come. They come along. The mindset, almost childlike, has hardly any points of reference with anything in the west. They are the product of human tragedy in their country, compounded by superstition, strange (to us) belief systems extending to the cure for HIV/AIDS being bedding virgins. A selfish machismo beyond anything we know in Europe (and that is saying something). They catapult themselves with no language, no real skills, into a totally alien culture the like of which they could only have fantasised about, child-like almost.
R. Agius
What about the thousands of maltese people having sex with legal and illegal russians/ukrainians, etc?
Victor Vella
They are carriers of certain diseases. I say that the only way forward is by removing them from the streets, we cannot afford to import diseases which we have managed to suppress or eradicate from our country with hard work of people in the last 50 years. Please take note before they ruin our children. Next we would hear that they want to change our culture.
nvella
Victor Vella, Are you suggesting that we should take the remaining 50% suffering from HIV, who are presumably Maltese citizens, off the street as well? Or should we just put them on a boat and ship them off to Libya?
Stephen Scicluna
People here should watch the movie ’21 Weeks Later’….Perhaps that would help clarify what frightened people are prepared to do when they are faced with other people carrying highly contagious deadly disease. This is called SURVIVAL and is the deepest of all human instincts.
Peter Borg
Some may unwittingly be spreading deadly disease to our daughters or sons. Some could even be doing it quite intentionally. I totally believe that people with life-threatening infectious disease should be obliged to register their condition and be forcibly tattooed in the groin area or electronically RFID tagged. This way healthy people can take an informed decision before choosing to have sex with certain individuals.
Phil Humphries
I HOPE THIS ARTICLE PRICKS THE CONSCIENCE OF THOSE HAVING SEX WITH THESE IMMIGRANTS. As I’ve said before, the solution is to house all illegal immigrants in off-shore prison ships that are funded and operated by the EU. Not only would this serve as a deterrent, but it would also ensure that the burden is shared by the whole community. Indigenous populations would retain their cultural identities and the spread of diseases such as aids and TB would be better contained.
felicia brown
are we having serious ppl that want to govern malta or just those who like gahan say always yes sir!!!!!!!!
Ian C Ellul
YOU KNOW WHAT WORRIES ME MOST? Those immigrants who work in catering establishments – including cafes & restaurants…..are they screened for HIV before they start preparing food for us and our kids, and possibly cutting themselves with knives?
Joanne Micallef
Our government should safeguard our interest and test the arrivals and label them as HIV positive.
Mark Fenech
I hope that GonziPN acknowledges that we are facing an urgent problem and he will not try to convince lil-Gahan Malti that these experts are exaggerating.
Brian Maloret
I have seen the same thing in Bugibba that you have witnessed in Paceville and it is not only Maltese woman but woman from Northern European countries on holiday in Malta who willingly have sex with the Africans living here.
Ray Buttigieg
another reason why we should make the boats turn back. The only solution to this problem is to take a hard stance and make them go back with their shanty boats.
Emanuel Muscat
1. All immigrants to have HIV test on arrival which cannot be refused otherwise automatic expulsion; many civilised countries do this anyway
2. if the test is positive automatic expulsion or if not possible automatic detention till it becomes possible with no chance of being let loose
J. Galea
These people have to be thoroughly screened for HIV, Tubercolosis, Hepatitis and all the other serious infection diseases. Their children are mixing with ours especially at school.
Anthony Attard
Many Maltese women willingly sleep with people from the countries as a sort of fashion statement. Just go down to Havana and similar places in Paceville and your eyes will not lie.
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Peter Borg: “…and be forcibly tattooed in the groin area…”
Like: “CAUTION – Dangerous Dick” or “BEWARE. Entry Prohibited”?
[Daphne – Yes, I was wondering about that: by the time you get to see the tattoo, it’s too late to back out.]
With leprosy, caught innocently, the infected bears no responsibility for his illness. Aids is a different matter.
In this particular issue, it is safe to blame a tribal lifestyle (mostly). Besides there being no comparison, no one will buy that they haven’t heard of it and its transmission by now.
Yet both diseases and viruses are too clinical for the chivalric knight’s sword, and reason suggest caution and distance. Faith does not condone reckless suicide neither, if not for sainthood considerations.
[Daphne – Oh come off it! Start thinking straight for a change. What next – not treating lung cancer patients because they ignored the warnings on cigarette packets? Not rescuing people involved in diving accidents because diving was their choice?]
http://www.corriere.it/cronache/09_marzo_05/clandestini_sgominata_tratta_97be3d64-094c-11de-84bf-00144f02aabc.shtml
Most of them make me sad, but Stephen Scicluna’s answer makes me laugh out loud. What’s next – torching our cemeteries in fear of a Day of the Dead scenario, or cremate our animals to avoid a Pet Sematary situation?
There is mention of ‘Labelling them as HIV Positive’ (basically illegal everywhere in the world), housing ‘all illegal immigrants in off-shore prison ships that are funded and operated by the EU’ (and I guess that Barroso and the Civil Liberties Committee of the EP will be extremely happy with this idea), ‘forcibly tattooed in the groin area or electronically RFID tagged’ (this just speaks for itself), and ‘removing them from the streets’ (hunt them down like stray dogs?). This is incredible, and people writing these things should seriously get themselves checked out. What these people are suggesting is not only illegal but also very dangerous. Is it possible that the majority of Maltese people think this way? I would understand a certain resentment towards illegal immigration but this? This is beyond belief.
With all respect, it is you who should read straight. Wherever I said that they should not be treated? You can argue as much as you like against The Sunday Times article; they did well. Bluntly it is a politically correct public health warning to avoid intercourse with these high risk people. One out of two are with it, so it’s a gamble.
Whether most like it or not, neither political correctness nor human rights stands in the way of the greater public health safeguard. Only logistical problems hinders Aids test for boat people.
[Daphne – “One out of two are with it”: thanks for the memories. I haven’t heard my mother say that since 1969. As for the rest, you might as well avoid sex, full stop, because you never know what you are going to pick up and from whom if you’re the type not to protect yourself – and others.]
Sandro Pace: You misread the headline. It didn’t say that 50% of immigrants carry HIV.
As the director of public health patiently explained to someone who’s got pallet-loads of Easter peeps to keep him busy:
“Sexually-transmitted and blood-borne diseases … mode of transmission is behaviour-determined and therefore if the latter is addressed there is no need for screening. If screening was to be advocated for such conditions, then we should also be screening the local population as well as all the tourists coming to Malta, as they too pose the same risk to the rest of the population.”
In other words, put a sock on it. While you’re at it, put a sock in it too.
I was not around in 1969, so I do not know what you are talking about. [Daphne – You didn’t have to be around in 1969 to know what the expression ‘with it’ means.]
Daphne, you have not yet grasped the concept of calculated risk. Learn some poker. [Daphne – You don’t have to play poker to know how to calculate risk. You just have to be reasonably intelligent. If you only assess risk when you play poker, then no wonder you think we are about to become a nation of HIV patients. That’s why you posted a comment on timesofmalta.com saying that we have nothing to fear from military action by Libya, because we can meet them on the beaches – hunters welcome to join in. I hate to have to inform you that there have been some developments in weaponry and warfare since the Normandy landings.]
Corinne Vella: Indeed I did misread. The eye-opener headline was more specific “50% of HIV cases involve African immigrants”. You would leave your children play with fire, as long as they dress ‘protective’. My philosophy is different. Avoid it completely. Which is the gist of the paragraph you quoted. [Daphne – The difference between children and adults, Sandro, is that adults are responsible for their own actions and are considered capable of making their own decisions. Hence, you don’t clear the country of HIV patients just in case a non-HIV patient decides to have unprotected sex with one of them.]
Since you’ve mentioned, hunters would compliment the automatic weaponry of the regular armed forces. They have machine guns ok. I have omitted that because it is implied, or so I thought. We do not have tanks, but they cannot bring them here neither.
Combined with the knights, the Maltese people with less than sophisticated weapons defeated a state of the art ottoman army. So…
You underestimate the hate and motivation an invaded people will have for the invaders, which usually have no motivation at all. Cuba warded off an invasion which had the military support of the USA.
They have missiles, we have friends which will not let this go unpunished.
And only the feeble would think that Libya will invade Malta, unless Malta does not trespass into Libyan space. (if that is what was meant by military action). Which it shall never do so, under no circumstances, not even to go for migrants.
We have an oil dispute with Libya, and not even then, they’ve dared.
Libya is already invading Malta, in case you have not noticed. It is using these people, albeit unarmed.
Read what Frontex was initially all about, and you will not scandalise yourself with what JPO or AN said.
Mela hsibtha tapit Malta jew?
[Daphne – Are you for real? The next time I’m standing in line at the supermarket, I’m going to be wondering about the people next to me. Are they fantasising about a Dad’s Army of hunters with guns lining up on the shore to counter a missile attack? Are they plotting how best to groin-tattoo Africans with HIV? Do they think tigers live in African jungles?]
One of the very few benefits, if you can call it that, of having Mintoff and KMB in government was that we did not need to turn windmills into giants in order to have something to struggle against. People like Sandro Pace are aching to be able to display their bravery and patriotism by fighting, literally, against an enemy even if they have to conjure it up.
Wonder, wonder. Missiles? The sixth fleet and that of her majesty will see to that. And what missiles? the ones that could not find lampedusa? And do you think Malta will remain defenceless? Dream on. Whatever, a highly unlikely scenario. As Libya has no reason or right.
You are too selective to have a logical conversation with. Well, if the line is made of people like Ranier Fsadni, it would not be a problem. The enemy will just die with laughter. He is doing a good job instilling a sense of helplessness. It is only serving to harshen those who read his articles. Gonzi is no picnic neither. Netanyahu blushes near him. Bring Tonio. Neither you, nor people like Ranier have understood the general Maltese psyche. They would rather bring the country down then be bullied.
[Daphne – Quite to the contrary, I am an extremely logical person, and it is you who are not, and that is why we are at odds here. You are not only illogical, but you are also hysterical, and worse still, one of those people who think that the ‘general Maltese psyche’ can be extrapolated from what you and your associates feel and believe.]
Sandro Pace: Frontex was not created for the sole purpose of feeding Sandro Pace’s already fevered imagination. It operates along the borders of Eastern Europe too. What do you imagine that means – that people are taking a circuitous route through Azerbaijan for the sole purpose of avoiding you and your motley crew at l-Ahrax tal-Mellieha?
“Libya didn’t dare invade Malta”. Ar’hemm hej. Precisely what would that have achieved?
[Sandro Pace – One out of two are with it…]
Totally incorrect. The highest incidences reported in certain urban areas of Africa are in the 30% range. You will argue that that is still high, but it certainly isn’t one in two. Having sex with anyone is a gamble with HIV around, the gamble being higher in some cases, yes, but never non-existent – not with Maltese persons, not with whites, not with foreigners coming from continents other than Africa.
Daphne, the general psyche is determined by the majority of the people. What you term hysterical has also infected the Maltese parliament, up to Lampedusa, the Italian parliament and the Italian foreign ministry. Not to mention the Australian theatre. Is it possible that everybody is wrong and you are right?
To the rational mind, this situation is anarchic, unsustainable, abnormal, and have to go checked. Eventually and inevitably.
Antoine Vella, I have not conjured up any enemy, neither did the Libyans themselves. Ranier did. Suggesting that our country be military threatened if it dumps back to sender what is being dumped upon it should cause reaction even in the most feeble.
I grew up hating Mintoff, but at least there was a limit on how much he would have let Malta be bulldozed. Unlike the indecisive, symbolic present PM.
Corinne Vella, I meant the Mediterrenean component of Frontex, if you want it spoon-fed. Should you want, check the ‘Maltatoday’ article I posted to Fsadni’s first article.
[Daphne – Rightness and wrongness are not determined by what the majority think. Nor is the differentiation between fact and fiction. If the majority believe that pigs fly, it doesn’t mean that pigs do.]
Moggy: Sandro Pace is safe. He probably has a gun and camouflage outfit to fight off HIV infection. Or maybe he uses one of those nets covered in artificial leaves.
Fear of HIV infection? I’m afraid of all these loonies with guns and grandiose ideas. There are a lot more of those around than there are people with HIV.
Sandro Pace: If you mean the Mediterranean component of Frontex then that is exactly what you should say, otherwise someone with a broader mind than yours will misunderstand you.
What’s your point, anyway? You say Libya will never invade Malta and at the same time you say Libya IS invading Malta. Meanwhile, you say your hunter friends are gearing up to go to war alongside the AFM, yet while the AFM is already occupied rescuing people at sea, your lot is planning to cling to the shore rather than get their feet wet.
You say that “To the rational mind, this situation is anarchic, unsustainable, abnormal and has to go checked.” I agree – you really need to do something about the narrow minded circles you move in.
Corinne Vella
““Libya didn’t dare invade Malta”. Ar’hemm hej. Precisely what would that have achieved?”
Apparently Mintoff was afraid of such an invasion when there was the Saipem incident. I remember seeing the Ta’ Qali runway peppered with 45-gallon drums to stop an eventual landing by Libyan paratroopers. I wonder what other measures Mintoff took for his own safety – planned to run away probably.
A quick search on Wikipedia: ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS_in_Africa )
The HIV/AIDS epidemics spreading through the countries of Sub-Saharan Africa are highly varied. Although it is not correct to speak of a single African epidemic, Africa is without doubt the region most affected by the virus. Inhabited by just over 12% of the world’s population, Africa is estimated to have more than 60% of the AIDS-infected population. Much of the deadliness of the epidemic in Sub-Saharan Africa has to do with a deadly synergy between HIV and Tuberculosis.[1], though this synergy is by no means limited to Africa. In fact, Tuberculosis is the world’s greatest infectious killer of women of reproductive age and the leading cause of death among people with HIV/AIDS.
World region Adult HIV prevalence(ages 15–49) Total HIV:
Sub-Saharan Africa 6.1% (24.5m)
Worldwide 1.0% (38.6m)
North America 0.11% (1.3m)
Western Europe 0.3% (5.8m)
(Source: UNAIDS, 2006 Report on the global AIDS epidemic)
Literally labelling HIV infected people is ridiculous, but educating our nation, and feeding them information, is obligatory. Then, as we are a free country it is up to each individual to take care of one’s self.
@Antoine Vella
Oil drums were placed along the Ta’ Qali runway after an aeroplane almost landed there, the pilot having mistaken it for Luqa.
I am sure that Dr Barbara was not after labeling Africans when he gave his interview to The Times a few days ago. Statistics are an important part of medical practice, and they are kept all over the world. Analysis takes place as to how different groups of people are affected by different conditions – and one of the way people are grouped is according to race. There is nothing wrong with that. There is nothing wrong with the truth being said. The important thing is that the relevance of what is said is accurately picked up by whoever is listening, and that people are educated to understand what that truth means so that they will not resort to panicking.
So I agree with Christian that the truth must be said – and it was right that the truth was revealed.
Christian / Moggy: Quoted statistics are based on general populations. If the population is narrowed down to those engaging in activity that may result in transmission of infection (in either direction), what is the incidence of HIV? I would imagine that it’s higher than it is among the wider population.
This is a genuine question. I have tried to find statistics on high risk groups but have not found anything so far. I’m interested in the Maltese population in particular.
Corinne, one would have to estimate the percentage, of people engaging in that high-risk activity, of people who are infected with HIV. Yes, it is possible that the percentages will work out to be higher in these high-risk groups, because of the simple fact that many cases of infection will exist within a small group.
One must also keep in mind though, as regards the incidence of HIV in Africa, that the majority of cases in Africa are not, as in the West, associated with high risk groups like IV drug abusers or homosexuals (and as far as I know has never been). Rather, you will find cases across the board, with females being infected just as often as males, and many children having HIV because they were born to HIV positive mothers.
Even in Malta, the groups affected have changed. The first to be infected in Malta were people with blood dyscrasias, who needed to be given regular blood factors, and homosexuals who had had foreign contacts. Up to 20 years ago there were no HIV positive IV drug abusers in Malta – there seem to be a few now. Nowadays one expects to see more women infected as the infection becomes associated less with homosexuals alone and more with heterosexuals and IV drug abusers. This is happening all over the world – showing that what we call high risk groups are always changing and shifting.
Moggy: Thanks for the information. If you know of any documented statistics, I’d be grateful if you’d post the reference here. This is a genuine enquiry.
Corinne – Try contacting the person listed here.
http://www.euro.who.int/aids/ctryinfo/CtryInfoRes?COUNTRY=MAT
@Moggy
As I recall – most, if not all Maltese haemophiliacs were infected with HIV via products imported from the USA, to which they succumbed. This was in the pre-HIV screening days when you could pick it up from a routine blood transfusion in hospital. That is how Arthur Ashe and thousands of others died.
I will, if I find anything.