While Labour relies on Nakita and Aaron to develop progressive policies in a Qawra garage, this weekend at the Nationalist Party…
On timesofmalta.com, this morning:
The Nationalist Party is planning to promote legislation to grant rights to non-married couples, including gay couples.
A document currently under discussion at a meeting of the PN confess says the party cannot ignore current realities and the law should cater for the rights and responsibilities of such couples.(…)
The PN document also stresses that civil liberties must be strengthened in areas of individual privacy, freedom of expression and censorship.(…)
And on maltatoday.com.mt (God, that must have hurt):
(…)The president of the General Council, Paula Mifsud Bonnici, said the divorce referendum had sent a clear statement and that the PN’s statement against divorce was now history.
“Since that statement, the people have spoken and the PN declared it would respect the people’s decision. This document consolidates the respect towards that decision and recognised today’s realities by accepting the existence of new forms of families.”(…)
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Issa sew, Cyrus…
Pogga il-karrettun quddiem il-hmar u issa sejjer jibqa bir-riha.
Cyrus was confused at the time and apparently was not getting the right advice from his lawyer, Franco Debono. LGBT and all, the PL has not yet come out with similar clear statements.
Cyrus jaqbillu jerga jahsiba u jipprova johrog mill-morsa Laburista qabel ikunu ghasruh ghal kollox ghaliex wara l-iskip jitfaw gewwa il-mizbla biex jintesa.
How foolish of Paula Mifsud Bonnici to be the one to state this, even if in her capacity as President of the General council. She will lose many number `one` votes in the first district.
Luckily the PN has Mr Gouder who has his head on straight.
What is the ‘PN confess’ ?
Is it just a typo and if so what was it meant to be?
[Daphne – ?]
Congress
It’s obviously meant to read ‘congress’. Lots of typos on times of malta.com this morning. Must have been a lot of binge drinking last night.
Congress.
What on earth is the “PN congress”?
“Dr Borg Olivier said that while the PN was proud to be inspired by Catholic values, it was also aware of the clear distinction between church and state.” On times website.
I can’t understand how a party which was too Christian for divorce can say that it is aware of the distinction between church and state.
I’m sceptical but I’ll see what they come up with.
The Church has always made clear distinctions between Church and State. It’s ironic that your namesake’s gospel, 22:21, makes this distinction clear … genuine Catholicism (that’s the only one I can talk about) requires its adherents to make the distinction.
Obviously, when something is blatantly immoral we cannot just take it lying down
It’s called mid term humiliation. Better so than being humiliated at the general election. Unlike the PL the PN had to swallow the bitter pill and accept that it needed to change too before it’s too late.
On the other hand in the Malta Independent today:
“While sticking to its anti-divorce position – the Nationalist Party has not changed the position it took against divorce earlier this year, and there is nothing that indicates a shift in the document being discussed this weekend – the PN clearly wants to distance itself from the accusations of being a confessional party, which were made in the run-up to the divorce referendum.”
http://www.independent.com.mt/news.asp?newsitemid=135640
what was discussed in the “garage”?
oldtimer, keep up…
http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2011/11/is-this-how-labours-policies-get-written/
Whether to insist on divisive politics, ignoring this country’s challenges or go for a pizza.
They will then come up with a statement saying the queues confirm Joseph’s theory.
Someone keep me away from the timesofmalta.com comments board! The ignorance displayed there is terrifying.
This all looks very promising. However there is a difference between a couple who don’t want to get married and a couplewho do want to get married but can’t.
I don’t see the point in putting same-sex couples and partners in the same basket since the intentions behind cohabiting and wanting to be married are not the same.
Let same-sex couples get married, and have the union recognised as marriage, since gay people and straight people have the same aspirations, hopes and need for recognition.
There is no logical argument that proves that a homosexual relationship is in any way inferior to a heterosexual relationship.
The law should reflect this fact, and not promote the discriminatory attitude that many people ,not just in Malta but all over the world, share.
There are three partners in a marriage: the two spouses and an approving state. Marriage is not just about tolerating choices. It is also a matter of social recognition.
“Civil marriage is at once a deeply personal commitment and also a highly public celebration of the ideals of mutuality, companionship, intimacy, fidelity and family”.-Massachusettes Supreme judicial court.
No heterosexual couple is stopped from getting married if they do not want, or cannot have, children.
Therefore there is no reason to say that, just because a gay couple cannot conceive, then they should not be allowed to get married. Even someone on their deathbed can get married, so long as they are heterosexual.
This just goes to prove that the state is more compassionate towards heterosexual couples than it is to homosexual couples and this is what causes homosexuals like myself to feel offended by those religious right-wingers who do not care about what their actions and words do to others like myself.
Same-sex couples can adopt and form a family of their own, and there is no evidence that their children will turn out any different from other children who are raised by heterosexual people. This is still a family.
David Cameron said it best a few months ago at the Conservative Party Conference in Manchester:
‘Conservatives believe in the ties that bind us; that society is stronger when we make vows to each other and support each other. So I don’t support gay marriage despite being a Conservative. I support gay marriage because I’m a Conservative.’
@ oldtimer
Mhux kemm jistghu jrabbu aktar papri u tigieg biex ikomplu jxewxu li hawn “bloggers mgharufin ghal hdura taghhom immexxija mill-Partit Nazzjonalista”?
Meanwhile on timesofmalta.com, about the capture of Seif Al-Islam:
“A picture of Seif on a bed, with bandaged finders, was issued later.”
Bandaged what? Iva, Madonna proof-reading ta’ xejn?
L-anqas haqq kemm qed jaqghu tac-cajt.
If i recall correctly the Italian Prodi government fell soon after proposing similar controversial legislation.
In the same document the Nationalist Party stated:
Il-libertà u l-harsien tad-drittijiet fundamentali saru parti mhux biss tal-ligijiet taghna izda anki tal-kultura taghna.
Bl-istess mod ghandhom jissahhu wkoll il-libertajiet fundamentali u libertajiet çivili f’oqsma ohra bhalma huma l-protezzjoni tal-privatezza tal-persuna, il-libertà tal-espressjoni u ç-çensura.
Does this mean that the PN is going to start to fight censorship or does it mean it’s going to strengthen it? Sorry, but I can’t understand it.
Ah, the dangers of using Maltese. I think they mean “strengthen basic freedoms FROM censorship”.
The same could very well have been said about Malta:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2063476/UK-unemployment-1m-young-Britons-dole-motivated-foreigners-job-vacancies.html
Clearly a move in the right direction and it’s a pity that it came late, as this should have been the statement when the referendum results where made public.
We can argue that it’s better late than never yet I’m afraid the PN lost a golden opportunity to turn a weakness into an opportunity.
Lanqas haqq il-kummidji li qad jaghmel Cyrus u xi erba’ opportunisti politici bhalu.
Meanwhile, Cyrus was enjoying the crisp BLUE skies in Brussels on his Facebook yesterday.
The (hot) subject that was discussed was the 500 Euro my dear oldtimer.
How to render obsolete Joseph Muscat’s “progressive liberal moderate” party:
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20111119/local/PN-seeks-rights-for-gay-couples.394540
Below is a reader’s comment in Malta Today regarding gay marriage in Australia, he has a point to a certain extent:
POSTED BY: Ken — 15/11/2011 10:36:52 I have yet to hear a single DECENT argument against gay marriage; those against are like a dog with a bone: “It’s mine, you cant’ have it !” The religious argument is just a smokescreen for rampant homophobia, which in a democracy shouldn’t allow such flagrant discrimination. In Democratic countries which pretend that there is a separation between Church and State, have the religious Taliban taken over in the West? In the countries where the law has been changed to allow gay marriage, THERE HAS NOT BEEN A SINGLE NEGATIVE RESULT! Straight people do not feel that their marriages are less valid; morality hasn’t declined in any way that could be blamed on a small percentage of people getting married who were not able to before. So where’s the problem? Sheer hypocrisy and bigotry! It is obvious that gay marriage will eventually win in the real Democracies, because the young today (led by Lady Gaga) are no longer listening to the old fogies’ prejudiced tirades and lies. They used to chant the same kinds of warnings about letting gays into the military; now that a majority of Western countries allow gays to serve, the result has proven that all the Conservative warnings were completely meaningless. Change the laws and move on. There are other things that are more important to the good of society than blocking gays from being treated like human beings.
Qawra Garage? Get your facts right. The meetings were held at the TOPAZ HOTEL
Interesting choice. Did you pay for your own drinks?
Let’s wait & see…. I hope that this won’t be another insult to the gay community…..
Stop this ‘gay community’ talk, gays should keep living their sexuality like other people do.
[Daphne – I so agree with you there. I have avoided women’s networks and women’s groups and women’s what-nots and being the token woman representative all my working life. ]
Just look at how Karl Gouder behaves in public.
If you are expecting the presumed ‘right’ for adoption by couples who biologically cannot have children than you will be disappointed. Judging by what Joseph declared (in absence of a manifesto of what the renewed and re-cycled Malta Labour Party believes in)no political party will harbor such thoughts about child adoption by gays.
[Daphne – John, infertile heterosexual couples are biologically incapable of having children, but the PN’s political pledge is in fact to help them have a child.]
I did note write ‘infertile’, I avoided that word on purpose. Some heterosexual couples who have infertility problems are good candidates for an IVF process.
Artificial insemination is still a biological process, the impossible becomes possible with some help.
[Daphne – Of course it is not a biological process!]
Two men can never have children, women can do whatever they like with their bodies , but biologically a woman needs a man’s sperm to bear children.
I hope I explained myself clearly.
[Daphne – No, John, it’s you who are confused. In much of artificial insemination, one of the couple is not the biological parent. Both sperm and eggs can be donated.]
“Of course it is not a biological process !”
Then what is it an electronic process? Or a Frankenstein process?
[Daphne – A bit of a Frankenstein process, yes, if you must, with all those artificial hormones and laboratory equipment involved, frozen embryos, multiple implantations and what not. The whole thing bothers me enormously, but I stay off the subject because I don’t wish to upset those who are very sensitive already because of the situation they’re in. And when it comes down to it, a child is a child is a child.]
I don’t want to hurt people , and if I were in their situation I would not know what I would do in the circumstances.
So let’s stop here.
[Daphne – My feelings exactly.]
Regarding the word “community”
Women have, in the past, been made to feel subordinate to men. They fought very hard to get the right to vote and to work and be treated equally in the work place and outside the work place too. Yes, today they still face sexist attitudes from time to time, but it is not as bad as it used to be.
However, when it comes to homosexuals and other social minorities things are different. No matter what problems women have faced in the past no one has ever tried to exterminate women.
[Daphne – Ah, but Edward! That’s only because we were essential for reproduction (Baldricks could be found for cooking, laundry and possibly even sex). If that were not the case, then possibly yes, women would have been exterminated. Lots of people had lots of fun torturing and burnng and drowning women on the flimsy excuse that they were witches, remember, or that lovely generic word, ‘bad’. ]
The threat of being exterminated is what makes those individuals group together even more in order to defend themselves since there is safety in numbers. This threat is not imaginary, especially when the Catholic Church talks about homoesexuals as being as serious a problem as deforestation, when homophobia is not just about insulting homosexuals and discriminating against them but also beating and killing them, and let s not forget that homosexuals were also victims of the holocaust in WW2, but when they were liberated homosexuality was still a crime and so they were all sent to prison.
Every case of social minorities identifies itself as part of a communit, bar one- women. Incidentally women are in the majority. There are in fact more women than men in the world. But when it comes to people of a different religion, race, or sexuality things are different.
The word community is not about being part of a club. It is a sense between all individuals who are of a social minority in a country or area who feel they need to have strong bonds between each other in order to protect themselves. There is a sense of community between us to some degree. So it is an apporpriate term to use.
What was discussed in the Qawra garage: Joseph’s hair colour choice for the next mass meeting.
The Labour Party has organised a fair at MFCC: Kwalita Malta for Mslta-made products.
According to One News, there was also a seminar about (wait for it ) “Iz-zejt taz-zebbuga” . One would have expected a seminar about challenges and opportunities for Maltese products in a market of 400 million consumers.
While the Eurozone is having weekly summits about the euro crisis, the Partit Laburista Malti is discussing olive oil.
Yes, we definitely need the PN in government for another 20 years – Labour has really lost its marbles .
So the PN has had an epiphany? I do not think that people are convinced of this volte face at this late hour. It reminds me of how the MLP changed its official stance towards the EU after an electoral battering although grassroots remain decisively anti-EU.
[Daphne – You’re quite wrong there. The MLP never changed its anti-EU stance, and it still hasn’t changed it now.]
The fact the Lawrence Gonzi voted against the introduction of divorce legislation shows that the PN leadership is not genuinely prepared to embrace the change in attitude towards new social realities and new forms of social contracts.
The PN document seems to be a cheap pre-electoral ploy, which is so unbecoming of the party that always placed principles before expediency.
[Daphne – No, it is exactly what it should have done before the referendum, when it totally misread how people feel about this. Now that it knows how people feel, things have to change. Would that the MLP/PL/whatever were as sensible and LIBERAL..]
I would have preferred that the PN kept its stance on these matters, just as the PL should have maintained its rejection of EU membership (which may prove to have been a wise decision in the near future), at least it would seem consistent with its basic tenets. Now it looks as if the panic-stricken PN will swing to wherever it can grab some votes.
[Daphne – I’m guessing you’re not in politics. The MLP, I repeat, did keep its anti-EU stance, and just look at the party now.]
At this rate, I expect the PN is on its way to ordering a skip, lest it will outdone by the PL, I suppose.
[Daphne – The skip is for people. I see no Labour Party rejects and blasts from the past heading the PN way. Do you? Try not to let you ‘iss hej mhux fier’ feelings show too much. If you are genuinely liberal and progressive, this news should cheer you. I think you’re just annoyed because you’ve seen the PL’s sole competitive advantage munched off.]
[Daphne – You’re quite wrong there. The MLP never changed its anti-EU stance, and it still hasn’t changed it now.]
I think the LP is no longer anti-EU as much as it was when Gaddafi was still alive and behind the PL. There is no Gaddafi now to bail out the LP without the EU.
The news does not cheer me up because it is so obviously intended to attract votes rather then a reflection of changed attitudes in the PN leadership.
In fact, it is worse becasue it is hypocrtical considering the opposition to social reform by the PN, in recent years, e.g., the introduction of divorce.
[Daphne – Yawn. So I assume that you justify Labour’s dogged stance against EU membership?]
Read the document. What a load of tripe.
PN’s social policies are as vague as PL’s economic ones.
[Daphne – That’s a Kunsill Generali document (a statement of intent, to give a rough description) not a policy document. Learn the difference.]
David II ,If you followed Gonzi’s address to the party delegates you would have learned that the party will have a working committee on each of the ten ‘statements of intent’, these committees will include non-political experts from every field.
When the PN declares its intent to tackle the secular issue via its catholic inspiration, it speaks on behalf of an extensive majority of people who believe it is the only way this can happen.
If the minorities who will benefit restart the anticlerical talk, they will have only themselves to blame if the dialogue stalls. Labour will only be too pleased, and will turn its back once in government.