Tonio Borg hearing
I’m listening to it live. If you’re doing the same, please start posting your comments. I’ll upload them as we go along.
Meanwhile, I’ve noticed that in the drive to make Tonio Borg look intolerant, some MEPs have succeeded in coming across as pretty intolerant themselves.
Why is it so hard to understand the difference between a personal opinion and imposing that opinion on everyone else, or between having an opinion and insisting that everyone else has it as well?
Unfortunately, thanks to sheer ignorance, insufficient knowledge of what words mean and limited analytical skills, all too often individuals with a really fascist mindset are mistaken for liberals.
Being in favour of abortion, gay marriage, divorce, or whatever does not make you a liberal in and of itself.
Now back to listening…
Good going, so far. Picture the long faces in the offices of Malta Today and mAsltastra.
I like the fact that he replied to an Italian journalist in Italian. It’s always so much more sophisticated to speak all the languages you can, rather than doggedly sticking to Maltese to make some stupid right-wing nationalist (small n) point, like Muscat does.
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From what I have seen so far I can say positively that Mr Borg is holding his own very well.
His body language is incredible – Go, Tonio.
I disagree. Rubbing/touching one’s nose whilst speaking is a dead give-away of insincerity, and he’s doing it repeatedly.
Don’t be stupid. That’s nerves. Who wouldn’t be nervous?
A fan of ‘Lie to Me’, I presume? Just caught a glimpse of Tim Roth lurking in the shadows…
Ghandhu rih, Tonio. Isimghu lehnu jitkellem issa fuq Bondi Plus, i.e. fuq il-home ground.
It is clear that for whatever reason the Prime Minister chose this great example of a Maltese citizen and without no doubt great politician, he made the correct decision.
I am watching the hearing right now, and it is obvious that there is a touch of tension, yet the face of the Maltese politician speaking in Brussels as a representative of this great country does not show this tension, and on the contrary it shows a man who stands for his principles and is not hypocritical in any way.
I do not say this often nor do I admit it in my heart… but I have to say I am proud to be a citizen of this island, and as Tonio Borg correctly said “I suggest you visit Malta…”
I was telling my better half exactly the same thing two minutes ago, LukeHendrix.
I absolutely loved the “I suggest you visit Malta” comment, too.
I’m impressed. He seems at ease and is answering with gusto.
And his English is nice to listen to. No national embarrassment, like it was with Johnny Dalli.
[Daphne – Well, actually I have really strong reservations about that, though the content is a relief. Getting rid of that singsong Maltese accent is so easy with practice. I don’t know why they don’t just go ahead and do it. You can even keep the Maltese accent for use in appropriate environments, if you must.]
Mmm, seems the dinosaur’s gone moderate.
I think that the socialists will support him and that would be a relief for Malta.
The last thing we need is Dalli’s successor to be rejected. I just hope the MEPs don’t regret their support.
I doubt that he will be rejected, and maybe this comment (the one you are reading) is not correct from your perspective but I think the MEPs were pretty confident when they showed their support.
The Socialists seem to be with him and they are relatively big fraction of the EU, so everything seems to be going well.
Well it seems OK for the liberals to call non-liberals dinosaurs and what have you. But dare you call them anything you deem fit for them.
Red lies and prejudice by certain MEPs (such as contraception being illegal in Malta) shows how much certain MEPs are just there for the money.
Unbelieveable how some MEPs have been fed lies.
I heard that Swedish woman called Cecilia Winsome (Winstrom) who styles herself as a vicar or something is behind the hate campaign against Tonio Borg.
I’m pleasently surprised. He is holding his own well.
All I can say is that he is entitled to oppose abortion. It has nothing to do with this job.
I personally consider abortion the regretful result of an overindulgence in drunken sex or just plain stupidity – rape cases excepted. I find it as distasteful as murder.
Her comment about his married life was interesting.
I mean, married Catholic, ergo what, Mediterranean chauvinist? Long way to go.
“All I can say is that he is entitled to oppose abortion. It has nothing to do with this job.”
Being “EU Commissioner for Health and Consumer Policy” means reproductive health have a lot to do with your job.
Was Dalli asked about his views on abortion?
He would have had to carry out a cost benefit analyses of the subject to see where he would earn most money….in the pro or con lobby.
I don’t think they allowed any ‘pigs’ in the chamber.
Excuse my ignorance – where can I follow it?
[Daphne – timesofmalta.com, top story]
Thank you. Just found it.
Live on NET TV.
live on NET TV and TVM2
Net TV is also showing it live.
Watching Dr Borg’s performance shows that we can hold our own. Go makku go! The balena is not going to eat this makku.
Also Live on Tv TVM and Net
Someone should have coached Tonio Borg to keep his hands still (yes I know it is hard for a Maltese person to do so) and for heaven’s sake to stop touching his nose.
ohh indeed because THAT is what the MEPs are there to judge…..-.-
Making a good visual impression is part and parcel of the “basics” to impress the MEPs or any other human for that matter.
In some cultures touching your nose when you give an answer to a question is perceived as not being truthful in your answer.
When will Malta legalise contraception?
Why legalise contraception? You can just go and buy any type except tablets, from any supermarket. Tablets are freely available from any pharmacy.
A sponge soaked in vinegar and honey will do the trick. Nothing you can’t source from a supermarket.
Mur ara x’kummiedja kien ikollna kieku ghamlu hekk lil Cuschieri :)
Kidney tkun Divina.
Correction – kienet.
I never really dug Dr. Borg but today I must admit surpassed my expectations. Well done.
I never liked Tonio Borg. Have to admit that today I am getting to like him and am very impressed. Comparisons are odious but have to say that Dalli is a non starter compared to Tonio Borg.
Today I’m feeling proud to be Maltese.
Prosit Tonio…. you impressed us with your wit and intelligence.
He always was witty and intelligent – and a man of principle too. I`m so glad you`ve realised it.
Whichever way one looks at it, the PN is simply spoilt for choice so much so that it can easily drop the muck as it surfaces.
Dr Borg’s performance has been an excellent one.
I must admit that this is one of those occassions, albeit rare, where I feel truly proud to be Maltese.
Labour Party DREAM of having someone as able in him. Would you imagine anyone proposed by Labour in his situation?
Joe Debono Grech?
Excellent choice! Ne plus ultra, I would say.
Certainly. They’re spoilt for choice.
Adrian Vassallo would have gone through with flying colours. And Herr Flick would come a close second.
Nice to see an Old Aloysian doing us proud!
Some you of should get a grip on yourselves. It’s just another ex-minister, sitting through another hearing for another EU commissioner’s post. You’d think he was Batman incarnate the way you go on about it. Haven’t you got wives and girlfriends to salivate over?
It just goes to show the expectations of many were very low so now they are pleasantly surprised.
But he’s Maltese, ergo we must feel proud of him. Poking the beastly Northern heathens in the eye. A modern day young Lockinvar indeed.
Mind you I’d pay good money to see Tonio on a horse clutching a broadsword.
Damn Bent Clupp!
His declaration of assets and involvements is quite different.
Classic Tonio Borg ^^ why respond in English when one can speak the language of the MEP who is asking =D that must have made a bit of an impression on the conference =)
Fair’s fair – Tonio is not your most liberal of chaps, but he is holding his own very well.
If, by liberal, you mean utterly indifferent to the most basic notions of right and wrong as long as you flow with the trendy notions, then I agree – he doesn’t fall within your definition of liberal.
I also agree he seems to be doing fine and may come out of this with flying colours.
It is not just the liberals who are imposing their prejudice on Malta’s nominee for an EU Commisioner for Health etc. They are the liberals who are also libertine in their life style.
I totally agree. Although he does need an opinion when it comes to the matter of abortion.
What should a country do in situations when women’s lives are at risk when they undergo an illegal abortion? Say “tough luck, you shouldn’t have done it in the first place”?
At the moment I understood that he was trying to make his opinion of abortion irrelevant, since such things should be decided by a member state individually. His opinion has nothing to do with it unless it’s Malta we are talking about.
To be honest it seemed that the woman asking the question was just trying to find support for her own personal cause and not because his opinion affects his position – it doesn’t. He has nothing to do with whether or not abortion should be legal in member states.
Well, his opinion does matter because if he were in favour of abortion it would be someone else supporting her cause.
I think that’s what she was after. As far as I know the opposite is true, so perhaps she was after a good tabloid headline.
What do you say to an unborn baby who is aborted, Edward?
`Tough luck, you have no right to be born like the rest of us had and you have no right to live like the rest of us do?
[Daphne – Oh dear, here we go. Another abortion debate as old as the 20th century. Excuse me for butting in, but 1. not all abortions are on unborn babies, and 2. you can’t say anything to an aborted foetus because it can’t hear. Take my advice, if you wish to convince, those use this kind of spurious reasoning. There are sufficient sound arguments and you don’t need to.]
A fertilised egg, a foetus, an unborn baby – what`s in a name ? Except that the different names all describe the different stages of a human life.
A fertilised egg, a foetus and an unborn baby don`t develop into acorns or monkeys when they are `allowed` to grow unimpeded. They invariably develop into human beings.
Actually, 21st century science is on the side of this very matter of fact reasoning.
Silly me, I omitted to put `say` in inverted commas.
Dr. Borg is a statesman, who is dignified, showing competence and self-respect. The best description is that of ‘a man of integrity’ that ought to make every Maltese citizen proud to be Maltese today (Band Club aside). Well done, Dr. Borg.
What is scandalous is that no MEP in that hall had the spine to defend Dr. Borg’s right to his own personal views on matters in respect of Article 10 of the Charter of Fundumental Rights of the EU –
“Everyone [including Dr. Borg] has the right to freedom of thought, conscience or religion. The right includes freedom to change religion or beleif and freedom, either alone or in community wit others and in public or in private, to manifest religion or belief, in worship, teachin, practice and observance”
The level of disrespect in this regard shown in the questioning is unbeleivable, and I admire his calm handling of the session.
I before E except after C.
Looking back on my comment, the image of Tonio holding his own is not one I should have invoked, really…
[Daphne – I trust he would be among the first to appreciate that.]
I think he’s performing admirably.
Having said that – what on earth is that Maltese interpreter doing there? Her English accent was the pits.
Figlio degno del PN e Malta
Oh how lovely. More of that irredentist philo-fascist crap.
Jekk Malti ta’ veru, ghaliex hassejtek izjed komdu tikteb bit-Taljan?
Gejjin bil-banda!! .. Pun fully intended!! :)
Tonio is not yet a commissioner but it is already clear that he will eclipse his predecessor if he manages to pulls this through.
Well done, Tonio.
We all feel that you will make it.
When I say all, I mean P.L., P.N. and ex-P.N.
You make us feel tall.
[Daphne – Your last sentence is SO revealing, Silvio. I’ve long suspected that many of the problems suffered by some Maltese men (and those who have to put up with them) are height-related. Shortness seems to affect Mediterranean men in one of two ways: you either become jolly and self-confident enough to poke fun at your own size (and end up loved and admired), or you become bitter, angry and desirous of revenge on anything and everything, determined to prove something. You make us feel tall? Bear in mind that many Maltese actually ARE tall, and think that tall is as normal as short.]
You might, or not, be interested to know, that at 72, I’m still 5ft 9ins, unfortunately I’m nearly as wide.
“Must be the result of those wonderful genes you inherited from your prostitute and /or English sailor, arse licking ancestors. I’m afraid that is your problem and you have to live with it. After all, nobody is perfect.”
I, on the other hand, the product of an English father and a Maltese mother, am still at 55 years an attractive, tall, thin, blue eyed and natural blonde.
Something to be said for mixing up the gene pool.
5ft 9ins is not tall for a man.
@Linda.
I have to admit that I was a little bit too harsh on you. I honestly did not realise that you are a Half Breed.
I can of course understand what you feel about this. Remember it was no fault of yours and all I can suggest is that you have to put all your efforts in accepting your,what I might call, unhappy situation.
I know that being a HALFBREED can effect the way the brain functions, but remember that we all have our crosses to bear,even though some are more cumberson than others’
So be brave at least as you say,you are beautiful etc. but please see that you never change your mirror,some of the new ones can play tricks.
[Daphne – For heaven’s sake, Silvio.]
Er, Tonio Borg makes me feel even shorter. Quite apart from the fact that he looks down his nose at me in the metaphorical sense too. But that’s by the by.
It sounds like I hit a nerve, Silvio. I don’t have a problem being referred to as a half-breed. In fact, I am very proud of my Anglo-Maltese heritage.
We muggles have both brains and beauty. My situation is far from unhappy and my brain functions just fine. I am a highly educated woman who has a had a very successful professional career.
It is interesting that you claim to be such a Maltese patriot and such a hater of the English. I goggled you and found that you have an account on the social media site, Netlog.
http://en.netlog.com/silvioloporto
Imagine my surprise, when under “Native Language,” I found that you had written “English.” Not “Maltese” nor “Maltese and English” but just “English!”
This from a man who claims to love his country so dearly and hate his former ” English masters ” so strongly, yet he identifies his native language as English and not Maltese. Explain that one, Mr Loporto.
I may be a half- breed but at least I’m not a hypocrite.
You are the one who needs to careful when you look in a mirror and see a two faced person staring back at you.
Thanks for your comments, Linda.
I did in fact look at the mirror this morning, and I asked.
‘Mirror mirror on the wall, who is the fairest of them all’
It was no surprise when the answer came. ‘Linda, who else, ask her’?
I understand the difference between personal opinion and imposing it on a nation only if Dr. Tonio Borg did not vote against the introduction of divorce in parliament, where he had a clear mandate to legislate in favour of divorce.
On this part he would have made a better job as an honorary member of this village band club. Personal views where not purely personal in Malta.
Having said this, I like Dr. Borg because he is one of the few honest politicians.
Last time, I did not mean to shock you with my comment. I thought it’s by law of gravity that most of us are arguing the way I did. Simply, because it’s natural that the PN will be out of office, because of the hubris syndrome they have been suffering from for a little while, especially the cabinet and the government bureaucrats.
I’m sorry Luigi, but Tonio Borg engineered a parliamentary maneouvre to get divorce enacted.
It may sound compromised, but form sometimes relies on its object. Function achieved at the expense of not looking good.
It set a precedent to resolve issues constructively, since co-existence requires compromise.
Village band clubs?! That, amongst other things, was cringe worthy.
Good for tourism, authenticity.
I find absolutely nothing embarrassing about that, Mjones.
In Malta we have band clubs. In other European countries they have running and cycling clubs, and few band clubs actually exist too, in some of which some politicians are also members.
Joe Debono Grech or someone like Alex Scibberras Trigona or Anglu Farrugia in the place of Tonio Borg would have without a doubt made me cringe not Tonio Borg being a member of a village band club.
I think Tonio Borg is handling it like a true champion.
Just like Daniel, in the lion-filled arena.
Keep it up, Tonio, you’ll soon have them eating from your hands.
Labour supporters will disagree but the intellectual gap between PN and PL members of parliament is significant.
Tonio Borg highlights that difference. If you look at the MLP line-up for the upcoming election can you think of anyone that could fit the bill as an EU Commissioner?
I would honestly be interested in nominations on this blog.
He’s far better than many PL proponents, but in my opinion he still doesn’t cut the mustard.
Considering the way we were brought up he did very well. We never had the opportunity to be scrutinised or to defend our opinion and beliefs except when we were at university.
I hope that that system has changed in our schools. It will greatly benefit our children.
Tonio was confident and at least he never stammered.
Can’t think of one.
What about Adrian Vassallo?
He did stand up to be counted, when the occasion called. He was not afraid to call a spade “a spade”
He called a spade a pig. Not very bright.
Conservative values is what will bring the PN back to govenment once it loses the next election.
Let us not make the same mistakes that the Republicans did in the US.
Stick to principles, and truth will out.
Others can go and pay lip service to to the gay marriage and pro-abortion lobby.
Conservatism is not fascist. Liberalism is.
Bring on Labour – let’s watch them disintegrate and implode in power.
It shall be a pleasure.
http://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/2012/11/07/tonio-borg-un-buttiglione-maltese-alla-commissione-europea/406779/
Do you think that John Dalli and Silvio Zammit are watching it together…. sitting on a comfy sofa eating mqaret?
[Daphne – Their people probably briefed the MEPS who asked some of the stupider questions.]
more stupid ?
What a coincidence; Just read a release – They actually could not watch it together as they had to be at the police HQ
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20121113/local/dalli-zammit-questioned-at-police-headquarters.445243
They probably missed most of it. MT at 17:13 reported that they were being questioned by the Police Commissioner.
They’re at Police GHQ at the moment, being interrogated on their misdeeds. I would assume that there are no TVs or internet connections in the Floriana depot cells.
Let’s hope they don t try to escape and fall off the edge.
They’re actually at the Depot in Floriana for questioning by the police. I wouldn’t know if they have a TV set in the lock-up cell.
They were watching it at the Police HQ – if there was a TV available.
Former Health Commissioner John Dalli is understood to have spent several hours at the police headquarters answering questions on OLAF’s investigation.
Times of Malta -
Sweet Irony.
simultaneous grilling
http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/en/newsdetails/news/national/John-Dalli-questioned-by-police-at-Floriana-headquarters-20121113
This grilling served another purpose. It was proof that we’re not the only ones to have elected the odd idiot to the European Parliament. Honestly, Joe Cuschieri is not the worst of the bunch after all.
stupider??? oops!
[Daphne – Stupider is the correct word, Raphael. If you don’t believe me, Google it.]
I stand corrected. Oxford accepts it is correct. Not used much though “more stupid” is more common.
[Daphne – So are Laburisti. That doesn’t make them better or more appropriate. And by ‘more common’, I mean nothing other than numerically.]
He should hire Labour’s fashion stylist. He could do with a nice crisp shirt and cufflinks.
[Daphne – Do you mean the same fashion stylist that allows jackets to be worn over short-sleeved shirts, so that in lieu of cufflinks (and cuffs) what you get is a thick matting of hair?]
“[Daphne – Do you mean the same fashion stylist that allows jackets to be worn over short-sleeved shirts, so that in lieu of cufflinks (and cuffs) what you get is a thick matting of hair?]”
I’m assuming their model would be a fully evolved homo sapiens in this case.
Top marks, Tonio!
Honestly? Not impressed. Does he think that other European politicians ring the door bell of their constituents as they do in Malta?
Well? Does he?
Prosit Dr Borg! Malta kburija bik
‘I have joined the National Party at the age of 17…’
What’s wrong with mentioning the word Nationalist? Is he ashamed of his political roots?
[Daphne – Nationalist has absolutely the wrong connotations in European politics. So does national, incidentally, as in British National Party, the BNP. It’s actually that very irritating Maltese use of the wrong tense that bothered me far more. That should have been ‘I joined’ and not ‘I have joined’, and it has nothing to do with when it happened. For example: “Yes, I have joined the group. I joined yesterday.” I know this sounds pedantic, but errors like this are, at that level, are a let-down. ]
That makes sense. I agree. But pedantry is one of my favourite pastimes too.
Yes, a let-down.
Still, I think I saw an improvement, albeit a very slight one, over John Dalli’s performance and his mastery of the English language.
Slight? You have forgotten ‘vindication’ – and Dalli wasn’t facing questions by dozens of MEPs.
The name of the P.N. used to be Partito Nazionale.
JoeM – he did NOT say ‘I have joined the National Party at the age of 17…’ as you put it.
He said: ‘I joined the national party at the age of 17; I have been an ardent defender and promoter of the European idea…’
…and I’ve just had my first taste of europhile egocentricity, he should have added, starting with that ardent EU apparatchik Chris ‘greening’ Davies, the LibDems promoter of an evenly-grey EUSSR.
By the way, not a bad apparatchik himself, our Tunnu. And all in three weeks! He’s just yet to realise that ‘subsidiarity’ is a bad word in Brussels and he’ll be off and running like a true Komissar.
All in all, well done. Even Joseph Cuschieri was impressed.
[Daphne – And that’s praise indeed, coming from you, Kevin.]
I believe he did a good job.
‘..rather than doggedly sticking to Maltese to make some stupid right-wing nationalist (small n) point, like Muscat does.’
You wouldn’t happen to have a link to that little spit-filled rant he went on a few years back in Brussels/Strasbourg when there was no one to translate, would you?
Would love to see him at his best again.
Watched most of hearing.
He was just outstanding.
Definitely a good choice.
Joe Seychell
Borg is questioned by EP while Dalli is questioned by the police.
All planned in advance by the Oligarchy and Evil Clikk.
Well done, Tonio Borg. Now looking forward to Bondi +.
Can’t understand what all the excitement and hype is all about. And I mean it. And its not a typical Laburist comment either.
I just fail to feel any emotion of any sort for a thingy of the sort. Did watch a fair bit on di-ve (more like it, I listened to it whilst working with an occasional glimpse), but decided to switch off after a while as I lost interest.
The positive thing about it is that evidently, some are quite excited about the way TB’s handling the challenge….contenti loro, contenti tutti!
You stupid man!
Thanks for being candid about it.
Cannot say the same of you as your verbless sentence is not very revealing as to the level of intelligence. It does say something about your manners though.
Excited? No, not at all. Tonio is quite bland, to put it mildly.
However, whilst you evidently do not mind being represented by idiots like Cuschieri or demagogues like Muscat (“Jien bil-Malti nitkellem!”), most of us here would much rather have someone with both brains and integrity.
Actually this is much more exciting:
http://www.inewsmalta.com/dart/20121113-interrogati-john-dalli-silvio-zammit-dalli-qatta-lejl-id-depot
I understand Tonio Borg has the unenviable position of being one of those property owners who’ve been had all their life with unconstitutional rent laws.
I also understand no one expects to have their rights used to inflict further injustice.
Unbelievable. I just saw a shot of Edward Scicluna wearing headphones to listen to it in Maltese.
He was probably listening to the Hungarian, Czech or Estonian translation. Unguent on the ear.
Your analysis now, Daphne…
[Daphne – I’ve been distracted by the news about Dalli. You know how we women are like headless chickens. I think Dr Borg acquitted himself very well and I even suspect he might have broken down the defences of some of his opponents. Not all of them – and he certainly succeeded in making the most hostile of them look and sound far more intolerant than they hoped to make him look and sound.
He was just fine, and the decision to speak in three languages was an excellent one. An ultra-right, arch-conservative nationalist (small n) is, in the mental cliche of many, never a polyglot but somebody who doggedly speaks his own language in every situation (a hallmark of ignorance and poor manners, incidentally).
I just wish he would make as much of an effort to acquire a British accent when speaking English as he has with his Italian accent when speaking Italian. When you’re Maltese, speak the language fairly fluently, and are educated to the level he is, there really is no excuse. I don’t know why it irritates me so much, but it does.]
Allora sei dei nostri….bello.
It matters not in the land of Babylon.
The British themselves don’t bother with a proper English accent, not even in their home parliaments.
[Daphne – It matters a great deal. But one is now supposed to pretend that it doesn’t. It is only a polite pretence, though, nothing more. MPs are one thing, but when was the last time Britain had a prime minister, or even an Opposition leader, with anything less than a ‘good’ accent? Even Gordon Brown did his best. That tells you how much it matters.]
Yes, it matters to THEM, in THEIR country.
In our country, having a proper British accent does not matter one iota.
It’s always a pleasure listening to a proper accent. But that’s all it is in the end. It wouldn’t make a better Tonio, and it wouldn’t get him more votes, neither at home nor at the EU parliament.
[Daphne – Lilliputian mentality, FP. Guard against it. It doesn’t matter as long as you’re in your bubble. Once you leave that bubble, it matters. Had Dr Borg been able to switch from a perfect British accent to a perfect Maltese accent to a perfect Italian accent, he would have made an even better impression, more so because few know what a good Italian accent and a good Maltese accent sound like, outside those very nations, but practically everyone knows heavily accented English when they hear it and automatically mark the person down a notch even when their own is just as bad. I’d leave all those little chips behind, if I were you. Sticking to a bad accent ‘just to be yourself’ is pig-headed self-sabotage. Of course it bloody well matters, and incidentally, so does an extensive vocabulary.]
Actually John Prescott – Deputy Prime Minister during the Blair years – had atrocious English…even worse than John Dalli’s.
[Daphne – Deputy. To Tony Blair’s PM. Enough said.]
Please stop putting chips on my shoulder.
If I have argued anywhere in favour of “sticking to a bad accent ‘just to be yourself'”, then bash me to hell. Otherwise, the chips you speak about are only in your eyes.
Vocabulary is something else altogether. Do I sense shifting of arguments?
[Daphne – You quite clearly think it’s fine not to bother speaking English with the right accent, because “we’re Maltese”. That’s chippy. A non-chippy person would say, “If I’m going to bother speaking English at all, I’ll do the best I can and try to get the accent right as well.”]
Daphne, you quite clearly have no idea what I think. You assume you do, but that’s different.
Tolerance is not quite the same as indifference.
And bothering to do something right has nothing to do with non-chippiness. It has to do with pride in one’s work, and need.
Obviously, people’s priorities are not necessarily the same as yours. Though I would be proud to command a good accent in whatever language I speak, I do not require it of others and it does not affect me at all in my judgement of them on whatever aspect.
Accent has nothing to do with capacity to communicate. Vocabulary, grammar, and fluency does. And that’s what’s important for me to see in others whose job description includes communication.
I’d like to think that effective politics is judged by substance and results, not by accents.
[Daphne – Oh God, you just don’t get it, do you. Attention to that sort of ‘detail’ (really not a detail at all) is what sorts the wheat from the chaff. And if you disregard accent when looking for a recruit for a job description that includes communication, I worry about your standards or what you think communication is.
A good accent, or at least the right manner of speaking with the proper vocabulary and so on, is a primary requirement in anyone who is expected to communicate for a living or to represent an organisation.
Ask yourself why all the world’s top brands employ only posh girls and boys (or girls and boys with posh accents) to do their communication and PR work. It’s because the brand will be let down by a poor accent and the ‘wrong’ way of speaking. The medium is the message, and accent is just another medium.
A good accent is so important that if a person has this, he or she can wear rubbish clothes, for instance, and get away with it because the accent takes priority over the clothes (it’s a social signifier). But the reverse does not hold: a person wearing good clothes can’t get away with a rubbish accent because, again, the accent eclipses the clothes.
It is one’s accent, like one’s manners, which are the social signifiers, and not the clothes one wears. It is the minute a person opens his or her mouth, or sits down to table and begins to eat, that you can tell exactly who and what they are, and this right across Europe, which shares much the same standards.
This is the BIG mistake Maltese people make: not to know or understand this. That is why very many Maltese, like bad wine, really don’t travel well, and also why the ones who understand it go so far.]
“In our country, having a proper British accent does not matter one iota”
I would say it’s worse than that.
In our country, if one speaks French like the French, Italian like the Italians or German like the Germans, one is admired and praised.
But if, God forbid, one speaks English like the British, one is accused of putting on airs and graces, and of habitually licking English sailors’ arses, and of having a whore for a mother.
Daphne, your standards are anything but. They’re just another means of looking down at the Maltese. I don’t think I should include the words fellow in there, because you don’t sound Maltese yourself at all.
[Daphne – I think John made the extremely valid point that the problem with English is political and cultural, and nothing else. Maltese people are not ‘unable’ to speak English properly. Most don’t want to speak English at all, have strong reservations about it, and are prejudiced because of a lifetime of brainwashing. So they don’t give it their. When you are doing something reluctantly, it shows. “You don’t sound Maltese at all”. Ah, but I am 100% Maltese and have lived here all my life. There’s the rub, FP. If I sound this way then this is the sound of a Maltese person, like it or not. Your definition/classification of the Maltese people who write, speak and ‘sound’ like me as somehow ‘not Maltese’ indicates very clearly where the root of the problem lies. I reject that way of thinking – completely. Stick to speaking Italian with a perfect Italian accent, then, while protesting that working on your English is absolutely unnecessary as long as you can make yourself understood. That will get you really far. And by you, I don’t mean you. I mean people with this way of reasoning.]
You’re excusing every British person from the Deputy PM down for their anything but proper accents, but god help the 449,999 Maltese with their bad English accents, for they’ll face the wrath and gnashing of teeth of Daphne.
[Daphne – A British accent at home in Britain is a British accent at home in Britain. British people in Britain are on their home turf and can do what the bloody hell they like. And yes, even they are sorted according to manner of speech and accent. It is, in fact, one of the most accent-and-speech-conscious societies in the world. When you learn a language, you should always strive to do the best you can, and not just ‘good enough to communicate’. That means learning the accent. If you are going to learn an accent, it makes sense to pick the best one. People raised with a Scouse accent were raised that way, but nobody actually goes out and learns English with a Scouse accent, and your argument doesn’t hold.]
Daphne, I don’t see anyone being rejected on account of their bad English accent. Certainly not a Maltese Commissioner nominee.
If I had this Tonio Borg, and another Tonio Borg with a perfect English accent, then I’d choose the latter. But that’s as far as it goes.
[Daphne – Did I say anything about Commissioner candidates being rejected because of their accent? No, I did not. I said that his accent needs work. And yes, it does. I repeat: Maltese people have absolutely no excuse. We are not Italian, however much some of us would like to be.]
It would have been great if Tonio Borg spoke English with a Scouse accent.
I think you are being unfair to Tonio Borg when it comes to his “bad” English accent. How many people in Malta (who have lived in Malta for all of their lives) can speak with a perfect British accent and a perfect Maltese accent and a perfect Italian accent? I would suggest that the few people in Malta who would be able to achieve this would have had to live in England, Italy and Malta for several years. Local accents are acquired by living the language in the country where it is spoken. Hence you can recognise a good English speaking Maltese person anywhere in the world as Maltese. My experience is that the better English speakers of Maltese origin – who have lived in Malta for several years – are more recognisable as Maltese than the not so good English speakers. A not so good English speaker from Malta sounds the same as a not so good Greek, Spanish or Italian speaker. Your expectation is too high. If you were judging a person who may have been a student of languages for several years than it would be a fair expectation. I would suggest that if Tonio Borg’s English accent was perfect but his Italian was not – then this would more than likely not irritate you as much. I suspect a healthy bias towards the pleasant sound of the English language in your psyche – fair enough. His having the ability to communicate fluently in three languages is already a significant achievement – given his career and his obvious lack of time to perfect his speaking accents. May I steal a quote from Martin Luther King and also apply a metaphor to it – A person should be judged by the content of their words not by the colour of the sound coming out of his/ her mouth.
Professor Higgins’ opinion about the English language in ‘My Fair Lady’ (Pygmalion) is that: “the Americans haven’t used it for ages”.
I would love to see Saviour’s face.
[Daphne – Why, is it likely to be any different? He has only the one expression.]
Is he allowed to take his friend a sandwich? Or will Silvio be slipping by with some imqaret?
I wonder if the warder made him remove his shoelaces and belt.
One must also appreciate the fact that,Tonio Borg had such limited time to prepare for this hearing – Yet his performance demonstrated confidence and proficiency.
Daphne what’s wrong in speaking English in a Maltese accent? It’s perfectly natural.
[Daphne – No, it isn’t. There is nothing natural about languages and accents. They are both learned. You should always try to stay as close as possible to the best accent in whatever language it is you’re speaking. Don’t you think that English people who speak Italian with a ‘Stanlio and Olio’ accent are ridiculous? Same difference with those who speak English with a heavy Maltese accent. The same way you learn the language, you can learn the accent. It’s part of the process. For a start, the Maltese accent is really difficult to understand when you are not Maltese. Secondly, however fluently you speak English (or any other language), if you speak it with an alien accent you will always sound as if you are not really that fluent at all. If you speak English fluently, why let yourself down with a terrible accent that makes it seem as though English is your fourth or fifth language?]
I agree that listening to English spoken by a true Englishman sounds nicer but that doesn’t mean that we should try to imitate such accent. After all, would you tell a Scottish person to try to drop the Scottish accent or the Liverpudian to drop his cockney accent?
[Daphne – I would tell them that if they wish to get ahead outside the fields of acting and music, then they probably should. The world now looks more kindly on a Scottish accent, largely thanks to some glamorous actors, but a Liverpudlian accent is a handicap. Cockney accents are also a handicap outside the entertainment and hairdressing world, unless you are going to be a self-made gadzillionaire in the rag trade.]
Have you ever listened to a Pakistani or Indian speaking English? Their accent is not pleasant to hear but do you imagine that they can do any different?
[Daphne – Dear God, what a prejudiced comment. There are millions of Pakistanis and Indians, D. Gatt, and they don’t all speak the same way. Do I speak the way you do? I doubt it. And there are only 450,000 Maltese. Some of the most beautiful English I have heard spoken was spoken by ‘Pakistanis and Indians’. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjJ0wTMQh6w%5D
Yes, we all know that there are 449,999 Maltese who speak in atrocious accents.
[Daphne – It all depends on what language they’re speaking, FP. Are they speaking English, Maltese, German, Italian, Japanese?]
You made my day, Daphne. I love the Scottish accent. However, when my Dad got together with his fellow cronies, after a couple of glasses of scotch, ‘I cudna unnerstawnd’.
What’s all this aboot, Harry?
Speaking of languages, accents and wotnot, what is the official language of the EU?
There isn’t one? There are 27? One wonders why there are 27 interpreters. It just maybe that try as some might to speak English correctly with a pleasing British accent is nigh impossible. The grammar may be correct and their vocabulary excellent, but their accent could be atrocious. For that reason the EU recognizes the different languages spoken as ‘official languages’ of the EU.
Now, if Dr. Borg chose to speak Maltese since it is an official language, would he have received demerit points? Could it bar him from becoming an EU Commissioner?
I have heard Germans, Ukrainians, Greek and others who have lived in an English speaking country for half a century, but still cannot master a British accent if their lives depended on it. Do I look down on them? Do I find it irritable? Of course not, especially since most have no problem making me understand what they are talking about.
In my (much) younger days at the Lyceum, I was taught by no fewer than three Englishmen (teachers-Parker, Wood and Molloy) and some British accent did rub off on me, but can I boast of a perfect British accent? No, but then I do not find it so important as long as I can get across clearly to whoever happens to be listening.
I think that Dr. Borg did quite well, in spite of his less than perfect accent. His answers were clear and he will be judged on that basis. It would be a sad day when his accent would become a determining factor whether he gets approved or not.
[Daphne – Nobody is suggesting that accent should be a determining factor. What IS being suggested is that it would be a good idea to improve where there is room for improvement and the ability to do so. There just doesn’t seem to be the inclination, and that’s wrong. Why do you think Francois Hollande made the international news when he signed off his letter to Obama “Friendly, Francois Hollande”? Because he couldn’t speak English or because he didn’t bother to find out how to sign a letter off in English? Surely at some point in all his years on this earth and particularly in all his years with a cabinet portfolio Dr Borg must have noticed, for heaven’s sake, that the English word is port-fow-lee-oh. How can he not have noticed? It is in this sort of thing that he lets himself down. He is highly educated and it makes him look less so.]
That has nothing to do with accents or pronunciation, and you know it.
I’ll bet anything that that’s how he writes it too. One can’t possibly write portfolio and pronounce it portofolio.
Hollande didn’t bother to find out, you say? The French story is totally different. My impression is that the French bother NOT to find out.
I thought of a Laburist who would make the grade: Franco Debono. He has the marks to qualify him for the position.
@ Qahbu
Please, don’t go there. Imagine the sad tosser showing everyone his Form II results.
I watched and listened to the last half of it and was very impressed. A very well done to him, he has already done us proud.
So – when do they debate the matter? And when do we get to know?
Following Tonio’s impressive mode, the usual doom and gloomers are very quiet on timesofmalta.com – except for the usual prime gloomer
Peter Murray
Today, 19:09
Tonio has done nothing yet except be nominated lets not forget and as Obama has proved talking a good game is not not the same as playing one and appearing competent is not the same as acting competent.If he gets the job , and then only after a period of time has elapsed, can we judge accurately.Wasn’t Dalli competent and credible when they gave him they job?
Oh, I see! Tonio Borg is going to apply European values and scientific understanding to his deliberations at the Commission.
So he is saving his supernaturally-inspired bigotry especially for Maltese women and Maltese homosexuals. Great!
Good performance or not, this person has no place in an important international decision-making body. And yes, his affected English accent is comical.
[Daphne – It is a Maltese accent, jackie, not an affected English one.]
That’s your opinion.
[Daphne – No, it’s not an opinion. It’s a factual observation. An affected English accent has to be 1. English, and 2. affected. Tonio Borg’s accent is clearly and obviously Maltese. There is nothing remotely English/British about it, however affected it might be.]
We’re not going to see eye-to-eye on this one. It’s only obviously Maltese to Maltese people, or people who know the Maltese accent. An affected English accent is not remotely English/British. It’s an accent that sounds pompous and put-on to English people.
I WISH he had spoken with a full-blown Maltese accent. Would have been less toe-curling to listen to. Maybe I’m just biased against Tonio “Have your Baby, Rape Victim” Borg.
Daphne, agreed.
Oh, put a sock in it, Jackie!
He put on a good show, particularly when one considers that he’s new to the subject matter.
Two minor points: someone should tell him that the word in English is ‘portfolio’ – and there was no need to explain to the chairman that he was going to reply to Louis Grech in Maltese (just as he replied in Italian to the Italian without the need of an explanation).
‘Why is it so hard to understand the difference between a personal opinion and imposing that opinion on everyone else,’
I am not perfectly sure what you are referring too, but is it not what Tonio Borg tried to do (imposing his views on abortion on everybody else for a long time to come) by attempting to entrench the anti-abortion clause in the constitution?
Don’t you think that it could be a problem when politicians start conducting public policy on the basis of what their religiously informed conscience dictates? I think it could.
Tonio Borg: “What you see, is what you get”. No wonder those teenage boys in the audience got so excited. They could see a bit of a tit.
Lou Bondi interviewed some leftie MEP this evening for his programme. The amount of nonsensical misinformation this MEP spouted about Malta was unbelievable.
What did this MEP say?
That MEP was not only uninformed and misinformed but also highly intolerant. In fact that self proclaimed liberal MEP made Malta’s Brussels sprout seem like an intellectual.
I think that all Maltese MEP’s should make a declaration that the Humanist referred to is badly misinformed and that he ought to check his facts before opening his mouth. Intelligent people vote based on facts not misinformation.
Ajma Borghezio……..razzista kbir!
Where can I see a repeat please? I was at work, and so missed the hearing.
Any help would be much appreciated!
[Daphne – http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20121113/local/live-meps-question-tonio-borg.445064 ]
Yes Daphne, his accent is not a standard British English one. It is the typical accent of an educated Maltese person who learnt English as a second language. sir-KUM-stince, sing-song and all.
But why the fuss? Have you ever heard another European (non-British) politician speak in an accent like, say, David Cameron’s? No, because everyone has one and only one natural language – that language he or she was brought up speaking and was most exposed to as a child.
Unless the exposure to the languages A and B is a perfect 50/50 during childhood, a person will speak with a better accent in language A than B.
[Daphne – For people brought up in Malta, there is absolutely NO excuse. Unless we grew up in some gutter, we were all exposed to English from birth in some shape or form and definitely at school, though many of us pretend not to have been. Where do you think I learned English – at St Dorothy’s Convent, Mdina, surrounded by girls who spoke Maltese as their only first language? At home, with parents and grandparents who spoke to each other only in Maltese? I learned the basics from my parents and did the rest myself. I never had a single grammar lesson in my life. I had to work it all out alone because by the time I was at school, grammar had been wiped off the syllabus as not important.
I learned by reading and listening and working out why and when you should use this tense and not that one and so on. If I could do it, anyone can. I’m absolutely lousy at languages, but I happened to understand that this particular one was very important. Accent? Much more straightforward. Dr Borg’s Italian accent is near-perfect. How did he get that, I wonder? He wasn’t brought up speaking Italian. He learned it at school. So, pick up a decent English accent the same way. This is not about not being able to, but about not wanting to, as ‘john’ pointed out in a comment here.]
Cameron’s English is perfect, but what do you think his French accent is like?
[Daphne – Had French been Britain’s official language, his French accent – given his social background – would have been very good. But French is not Britain’s official language, and English is Malta’s.]
Barosso can speak several languages, but only his Portuguese has the correct accent. I would say Borg’s and Barosso’s English accents are probably equidistant (though in different directions) from a standard English accent.
[Daphne – It is at this point that I have to struggle with the urge to be extremely rude. Do you fully understand the status of English in Malta? It is our official language. Malta was a British colony for almost 200 years. Can the same be said of Portugal? No. Tonio Borg is foreign minister of a country where English – NOT ITALIAN – is an official language, and yet his Italian is better than his English. That is wrong. If you represent a country with two official languages, you should speak both to perfection, and that includes the accent. Of course, he is far from being the only one. Eddie Fenech Adami seems to have been the sole politician to understand what was required of him in this regard. He didn’t have any chips on his shoulder about learning the right accent, or as close to it as he could muster, and he obviously did so.]
Those few thousand-or-so of us Maltese who have been brought up speaking English as a first language feel almost embarrassed when we hear Maltese-speaking people speaking English to foreigners, but that is largely irrational thinking really.
[Daphne – It is not irrational thinking. It is justified embarrassment. There is no excuse for such paucity of language. In general, it reflects paucity of thought and general inertia.]
Tonio Borg belongs to the RAI generation.
Agreed. The simple explanation is that Tonio belongs to a generation whose education was based on English textbooks whilst his entertainment was based on Italian TV.
Nowadays most of my nieces and nephews have an excellent English accent, thanks to the introduction of cable and satellite TV, but sadly know absolutely no Italian.
[Daphne – There’s is nothing sad about not knowing Italian in particular. You might as well be sad about not knowing French, Spanish or Chinese. The imposition of Italian on Maltese children was always a little odd. On what basis was it done? It made no sense at all.]
On the basis that it was one of the languages in those same households. That perhaps it could also be an instrument to regain balanced thinking, Maltese and English alien to each other.
The regional has to be regained, otherwise we’ll continue thinking along commonwealth practice, which won’t resolve the challenges, sustainability, design, energy, shared know how.
It had to take us sixty years to get rid of the term ‘wasteland’ going for garigue before regaining ‘macchia’ which is the closest to what we have. Garigue, tsk.
The alternative to this could be the perpetration of a taboo that’s causing more damage than ever, the root cause of stasis.
Anyone considered why an Astrid Vella with her picturesque ideas is pathetic, Norman Lowell with his ‘presente’, ridiculous and Manuel Mallia with his twanged ‘onorevoli prim ministru’ on of Lino Banfi’s caricatures.
I’d love to hear their Italian to see where they get their cliches.
One doesn’t have the tools to crystallise concepts, the other one is a deranged individual and the third a Scilipoti. All we get is their pomposity which amplifies the aversion to the culture associated. Bollocks.
This place is a microcosm of three strains, the semitic, the British and the Italic, OK, make that latin, before someone labels me as an irredentist fascist.
Which irredentism, ‘influence’ was born in Malta mind you. Tarxien to be exact. Now if we want to ignore what role Malta played in the unification of Italy, (it was the war room in British parlance) let’s carry on with the charade.
The country won’t dissolve under undue contamination, that’s preposterous and the result of colonial conditioning.
This doesn’t mean Tonio Borg shouldn’t do better, I was suprised at his strong consonant, he did the same with Italian yesterday. It sounded somewhat rough.
His cadence however, coincides with that of the central regions north of Rome, where diphthongs take over. Which creates a result alien to the place.
Made him average, which he isn’t.
What you find odd, is what I carry inside. Having had one of my ancestors put under arrest simply because he studied in Rome and seeing how reverting to the language today carries the risk of being sent to Uganda confounds the silence. Still it remains, don’t ask.
At the time, those scholarships were the only thing that existed for the piccoli borghesi. The real forgotten truth in the history of Maltese society is how these were put aside and left to fend Mintoff’s pan-Arabism. Boffa being the first to fall.
The Rhodes scholar could be useful and one of them at times. As was Gaddafi.
I would much prefer being fluent in any of the three languages you mentioned (as they are more relevant in today’s world) than being fluent in Italian.
I did not express myself properly. I meant to say it’s sad that many nowadays do not have a third language.
It’s not that we (middle-aged Maltese) were better than today’s children; it’s just that us learning Italian was simply a fortunate by-product of the limited TV choice we had a couple of decades ago.
[Daphne – Don’t generalise. I never learned Italian, for instance, despite being obliged to take lessons in it from the age of eight. I never really learned French, either, despite it being a compulsory subject throughout senior school. And I never learned Latin, really, despite being obliged to study it at university.]
It was not a conscious decision to snob English or favour Italian; likewise with Tonio, I would imagine. English might be an official language, but that counted little against Novantesimo minuto, Superquark, BimBumBam, Fantozzi, etc.
[Daphne – I absolutely detested Italian television as a child. At school I’d wonder how the other girls knew so much Italian as I battled on with those horrid conjugations of even more horrid verbs, none of them making any sense. It took me ages to work out why they knew the language. And even when I had worked it out, I was damned if I was going to watch any of that crap – Stefania Rotolo in her hotpants on Discoring and so on (“Ragazzi!”).]
@ Jozef
….And thank God for RAI, Jozef. Our other alternative was… Xandir Malta.
“The imposition of Italian on Maltese children was always a little odd. On what basis was it done? It made no sense at all.”
Well, in my case at least, (I’m 36) I speak fluent Italian. I certainly didn’t learn it from school however! We DID have Italian lessons, starting from prep 6 (half an hour a week), however I could already understand Italian very well.
How? Simple, we only had access to Italian TV in those days, the alternative being the ghastly Dardir Malta!
Watching Mazinga, Goldrake etc day after day in Italian, one begins to pick up the language. We didn’t get access to good quality English TV until cable was introduced when I was about 14. We had no influence, so to speak as we only where exposed to native Italian speakers through TV.
I learnt English and Maltese at home. My parents would speak to us in English mostly yet used Maltese more often amongst themselves. However the standard of English at school was quite high back then too.
Today’s younger generation do not speak Italian half as well as we did back then, and I suspect the reason is that not so many young people watch Italian TV today.
In the past we were fortunate that most Maltese were trilingual.
Unfortunately this seems to be changing. Italian was our official language, many old contracts and documents were written in Italian, it is the language of the country closest to us, has influenced greatly Maltese language, and Italy has influenced our culture and I state that it benefits us to be trilingual.
Italian is also useful as it is similar to other Romance languages.
We should also encourage other major European languages such as the French and German languages without excluding non-European ones. Languages open the door to understanding different cultures.
[Daphne In fact, they do not. Knowing English in some shape or form has not helped Maltese people understand the culture that bred that language, not at all. It takes more than knowing a language to understand a culture, a great deal more. It takes, above all, insight. Relatively few people have that.]
Daphne, you’re clearly prejudiced.
Horrid verbs that don’t make any sense?
[Daphne – You quite obviously don’t speak English as a first language and so miss the the inherent subtleties, which is my essential point here. I don’t actually mean that the verbs are ‘horrid’ or that they don’t make any sense in themselves. I mean that they were horrid to me and didn’t make any sense to me, largely because I only ever had to memorise verb conjugations in Italian and French. And yes, I mentioned French too, so prejudice doesn’t enter into the equation. Later on at university I felt the same frustration and irritation when obliged to learn Latin. I can’t bear learning languages beyond what I actually need, that’s the problem. I couldn’t be bothered. Never could be.]
You’re an English language ____ (enthusiast / fan / learned user – fill in a noun of your approval that does not irritate you and divert any eventual response to something other than what I’m arguing about). Can you briefly explain where English fares on the making-sense-scale?
[Daphne – It is completely irregular and massively varied, but that is exactly why it is, so to speak, the industry standard for expression and functionality. It covers all eventualities and situations because it is so rich. You don’t feel you are wasting your time learning as much about it as you can. Also, it is beautifully concise and practical. One of the reasons I always found Italian culturally alien is because it is, literally, culturally alien. It reflects a different mindset. I become irritated within seconds of starting to read an Italian news report or an Italian magazine article. Whereas English is all about getting to the point, Italian writing is all about obscuring it. It is possible and acceptable to say nothing in Italian in five beautiful paragraphs. It is not possible or acceptable in English.]
When I argued several months ago that the Maltese language is more logical than English, you countered by saying that the need for logic in a language is a sign of laziness and lack of intelligence.
[Daphne – Yes, in fact. All that business with dotting the cs, zs and gs and crossing the hs is ridiculous. If speakers of English are able to distinguish between the pronunciation of thought, though and tough, then surely speakers of Maltese should be able to tell how zghazagh is pronounced without dotting zs and crossing hs. Also, Maltese is a very rudimentary language, so you can’t compare. Logic is not the height of desirability in a language: richness is. Anyway, we’re talking of regular versus irregular here, not logic.]
Stefania Rotolo? Ragazzi? Is that it? Is THAT Italian TV for you?
[Daphne – That’s roughly when I last tried to watch. It must have been around 1977. As I told you earlier, the Italian mindset is culturally alien to me. Really. I’m not saying it’s worse or better, just that I can’t relate to it at all. When I go to one particular hairdresser he’s always got the television on, tuned it to some Italian station or other, and I can’t wait to get out. I find it that off-putting. I feel the same about most American television and American voices and American English, so don’t get your knickers in a twist about it.]
If anyone’s prejudiced when it comes to languages and culture, it is you. And that is a fact that becomes more glaringly obvious with every argument about languages that you engage in.
[Daphne – No, not really. It’s probably just a factual assessment. British English is the Leonardo da Vinci of languages. It doesn’t mean that the Picasso of languages is interesting. It just means that there’s really no contest. And do please stop talking as though this is just something I’ve said due to prejudice, rather than an internationally acknowledged fact. The whole world studies Shakespeare (tragically, even in translation) but the whole world does not study Dante, lyrical though that might be.]
Thanks for taking the time to reply. Fair point about Portugal and Barroso.
Let’s take former colonies then. Watch this video of the Indian PM addressing parliament.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUlwlRW5Y34
Although the grammar is perfect, the accent is far from standard British English, surely.
Many Indian/Pakistani politicians have trouble with the English accent just like Maltese politicians, simply because although official, it is not their mother tongue. The video you uploaded in reply to an earlier comment was hardly fair, as the Indian in question is actually a British Indian and was educated in UK and lived there for many years.
Lastly, on Borg’s Italian: I wouldn’t say the accent is ‘near perfect’. Compare his to the journo before him who asked the question. His Italian has a significant Maltese accent. The logic behind this is the same as that behind his English accent.
Dr Borg, you didn’t make the grade. It’s the bloody accent, stupid.
Strange that an EU Commissioner hearing has been turned into a socio-historical-linguistic analysis.
Your statements about Dr Borg’s accent is based on the assumption that British English (by which you presumably mean “Queen’s English”, since in Britain itself there are many accents) is the “correct” English accent. Now go tell that to the Australians, the Americans, the South Africans. English is not the language only of those living in the British Isles. All those whose language is English have their own accent, each one just as valid and legitimate as the other. Since we agree that English is also “our” language, our Maltese English accent is as valid as any other.
[Daphne – Here’s another one stuffed full of prejudice. Let’s start from scratch, shall we? 1. English is Malta’s official language. 2. The form of English that is Malta’s official language is British English, not American, Australian or South African. 3. It therefore follows that Maltese people who wish to learn, speak and write their country’s own official language should learn, speak and write the British form. 4. In Europe, it is British English, not Australian, American or South African English, that is the standard form. The other standard form is Globish, but that is for people who have not had the advantage of growing up in a country where English is used every day and is an official language. Australians, South Africans and Americans don’t have their accent through choice. Nobody who learns English outside those countries deliberately chooses an Australian or South African accent. There are many reasons for this. Many choose an American accent. There are also many reasons for this. Most of those people are not European.]
Yes, you definitely have something against the Maltese for being Maltese. The chips aren’t on my or others’ shoulders; they’re on yours.
You’re arguing that our language is British, not American, Australian, or South African.
Let’s see now. Where did American English come from? Where did Australian English come from?
So when Americans turn the original English into American English, that’s not through choice.
And when Australians turn the original English into Australian English, that’s not through choice.
But when Maltese turn the original English into Maltese English, that’s chips and prejudice and hatred of the British, and heaven knows what else.
They don’t have their accent through choice, but we do, according to Daphne, because we hate the British, so we want to speak English differently to spite them.
There can be American English, Australian English, South African English, Nigerian English, Zimbabwe English, Timbactoo English, Moon English, Cruithne English.
But heaven forbid if you even think of the notion of Maltese English, for whatever reason, and in any circumstance, because Daphne will have a coronary and call you a chipped-up second-class citizen not worthy of being anywhere other than in a girna on this damned rock that we call home.
Oh, and do be careful how you say that last one too, for pride of country in Malta’s case is the ultimate close-minded Lilliputian mentality.
[Daphne – Goodness, you really do have a problem. Hasn’t it ever occurred to you to wonder why I’m not as chippy as you are about these things, despite being fully Maltese and having lived here all my life, growing up with both English and Maltese as mother tongues? That kind of chippiness comes from insecurity and an identity crisis. You feel you have to defend your Malteseness. I, on the other hand, love the fact that I’m Maltese. It’s gives one such an edge of those who have to admit to being one of several million Germans, French or Italians, or worse, one of several billion Chinese. I would have loved to be able to say, for instance, that I’m from the Falkland islands, or from Pitcairn island. But Malta will do.]
Interesting topic. First of all, Tonio Borg did not speak with an Italian accent. Much less a perfect one.
He just sounded less Maltese when he spoke in Italian than he did when he spoke in English.
I agree that he should have sounded less Maltese, without necessarily having a British accent, when he spoke English.
Accents are a question of perception. After 13 years in Italy, Maltese people say I “sound Italian” while Italians think I sound English. It all depends on who’s listening.
Why do you have to make a storm in a teacup each time you disagree with someone? Does a prim British accent make you more intelligent? No! So who cares if people have a Maltese English accent. As long as we can communicate effectively that is all that matters. End of story.
[Daphne – Use of language is one of the surest ways of assessing a person’s level of intelligence, Anon. The accent has nothing to do with it, but intelligent people generally understand that the better their accent is, the more likely people are to listen to them and be positively impressed by what they say. Tonio Borg made a good impression yesterday, but had his spoken English been better and more fluent, he would have made a far better one. There is no disputing that.]
Our Constition only speaks of English. Now it is true we imported our English from the UK. However we are not British and we have not been British for the last 38 years. Language speaking differs in time and space. If there is Australian English and Scottish or Irish English, what is wrong with Maltese English?
There are even different forms of speaking Maltese depending on geography (as between Malta and Gozo) or social class (as between those who are manual workers and the professional classes) and other differences peculiar to a specific village or town.
[Daphne – Speak as you please and I shall speak as I please, and we both know who’ll be taken more seriously as a result. And I don’t mean by a Super One audience. If you want to speak like an Australian when you’re not actually Australian, go right ahead. And please get back to me with news of how you deal with the raised eyebrows and puzzled questions. British English is ‘the industry standard’ for Europeans. For non-Europeans, it is American English. There is no such thing as Scottish English and Irish English; there are only Scottish accents and Irish accents in spoken English. Maltese English is not a language. It is a form of pidgin and the fruit of poor education and semi-literacy.]
On Scottish English http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_English and Irish English http://www.macmillandictionaryblog.com/regional-english/irish-english
Why is it that Maltese people cannot take any criticism to their politicians?
A colleague forwarded this article which reports on death threats received by the Swedish MEP who criticized Tonio Borg.
http://www.aftonbladet.se/senastenytt/ttnyheter/utrikes/article15764514.ab
Oh FFS, Nationalism rearing its ugly head – we’re so damn good at it aren’t we?
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20121114/local/alde-rejects-tonio-borg-s-nomination-for-health-commissioner.445357
“Why is it so hard to understand the difference between a personal opinion and imposing that opinion on everyone else, or between having an opinion and insisting that everyone else has it as well?”
Coming from you DCG, that’s pure gold.
[Daphne – I don’t try to impose my personal opinions on other people, Romualdo. I tell them about my opinions, which is different. This is I mean: you find it hard to understand the difference.]
Actually the fact that English IS an official language and Italian is not has led to the fact that many people speak Italian with a better accent than they do English.
They will have heard English from teachers, parents and adults in general as children, who unfortunately spoke it with a Maltese accent.
The accent has now become ingrained and is just passed on from generation to generation. As others have stated, Italian was probably only heard on TV. Thus the accent that children would have heard would have been the correct one.
I agree that accent can and should be improved, but it is much easier to acquire when young.
It would be interesting to compare the accents (both Italian and English) of different generations. I suspect, the English accent may have slightly improved with more exposure to the language from TV (Satellite and Cable).
I also suspect that the Italian accent has not changed markedly, but the incidence of people who actually speak good Italian is way down.
Daphne, I found your comment about the intolerance of Tonio Borg’s intolerance by tolerant MEPs to be very interesting. The Paradox of Tolerance.
“The tolerance paradox arises from a problem that a tolerant person might be antagonistic toward intolerance, hence intolerant of it. The tolerant individual would then be by definition intolerant of intolerance.” (quoted from Wikipedia)