“Malta has already saved Europe from the Ottoman Empire. We are planning to repeat the performance.” I can’t believe these people actually went to school.
This is the latest from the Malta Taghna Facebook group:
DEAR ALL ,
THE TEAM BEHIND MALTA TAGHNA IS APPLYING FOR ALL THE NECESSARY PERMITS NEXT WEEK. EVERYTHING MUST BE LEGAL.
LET’S UNITE TOGETHER (PN AND PL) AND PEACEFULLY DEMONSTRATE OUR CONCERN ON 4/8/13. NO VIOLENCE OR RUDE COMMENTS ARE ALLOWED. THE EU MUST GET THE MESSAGE CLEARLY AND SUPPORT OUR GOVERNMENT IN THE PUSH BACK POLICY. THE EU HELPED GREECE FINANCIALLY, WHY NOT HELP MALTA? THEY WANT DEMONSTRATIONS TO LISTEN!!
MALTA ALREADY SAVED EUROPE FROM THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE. WE ARE PLANNING TO REPEAT THE PERFORMANCE.
MALTA TAGHNA HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH OTHER DEMOS: ONLY 4/8/13
Get UNITED!!!
They also says they are “not anti-immigrant but pro-Maltese” and while they are clearly inciting racial hatred, they say that “violent and racist comments are not allowed”.
Oh, indeed.
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https://www.facebook.com/MaltaTaghnaTaghna?fref=ts
A country can only be so ‘multicultural’ before the minority culture starts becoming a burden on the native population. In an open and democratic country, eventually the needs of other cultures have to be met in principle, even if they are to the disadvantage of the native. It’s a good thing in small quantities but it eventually becomes a disease.
[Daphne – That is a ridiculous comment, Paul. Even among the Maltese alone, there are several different cultures. I have absolutely nothing in common with the people I see in the front row at Labour Party meetings – literally, absolutely nothing; we might as well be from different countries -and they have nothing in common with me and make a point of saying so very aggressively. The differences are not political. It is the CULTURAL differences that make for different political preferences.]
People are really the opposite of what they project.
I am going to frame your answer because it proves Norman Lowell’ s point all along. By entering a totally alien culture of such extreme, it would upset you even more, like the culture you don’t agree with in the case of the old MLP.
Now, you see our point ?
[Daphne – No, not at all. I don’t even understand the point you’re trying to make. What is it – that it is possible to have a homogenous culture? It isn’t, not on a nationwide scale and even if it’s just a small island. You will only get a homogenous culture in a village of a few thousand people. Beyond that, you can forget it. My essential points are two: 1. that cultures can co-exist, as they do already between the Maltese themselves, among whom the cultural differences are vast; and, 2. that the things we have in common with others do not come from nationality or place of birth but from education, personality, attitude and interests. I clearly have nothing in common with you, though we share a passport, but have plenty in common with some people born thousands of miles away who have a different passport.]
This reminds me of the quip that, really, the only thing that Dr Cheyne had in common with Dr Stokes was Mrs Stokes
It amazes me how poeple’s irrational fears blow everything out of proportion.
The population of the Republic of Malta is aprox 700,000 ( Malta Gozo and Comino).
According to the report below this comment, in 2008 there were 4000 asylum seekers living in Malta and working.
Now Maths was neve my strong point, but calculators are great things so let’s just do the maths shall we:
4000/700000X 100/1 = 0.571.
the total percentage of asylum seekers living in Malta is 0.571% of the population. Hardly an invasion is it?
http://www.tppi.org.mt/~user2/reports/Irregular-Migration/Report.pdf
I am going to frame this answer also. That is why the Maltese have a right to choose who enters into our country and not have these illegal immigrants here, who are totally out of place with their culture in education, personality, attitude and interests.
[Daphne – You see, this is the bit you don’t understand. Our right to choose who enters Malta is subject to the superior right, of those who enter, to seek asylum. Malta’s internal legislation is subject to 1. international law, 2. the European Convention on Human Rights, 3. any other treaties that might apply.]
They don’t fit in with anyone really.With your hardcore complaining personality, they are not exactly your type are they ?
[Daphne – Oh you would be surprised to find that I have much, much more in common with an educated African Muslim than I do with somebody like you. And you might find that you have more in common with a redneck from the American deep south, or with a skinhead in a south London pub, than you do with a civilised and educated Maltese person.]
with your good taste magazine and all.
[Daphne – Which reminds me about those plans I had to feature African food, courtesy of those who live here. Thank you for reminding me.]
Your complaining about ‘ Hamalli ‘ and you are so intolerant, these people don’t even come close to Hamalli, unless your thing is raping or wearing a Burka that you might find exciting or something of the sort. So ?
[Daphne – Actually, they are anything but ‘hamalli’. Hamalli is not a reference to social status but to behaviour. The most noticeable thing about African immigrants in general is how very courteous they are. The average Maltese person, on the other hand, is absolutely appalling – no manners whatsoever. “Gibli dik” “Tini dak” “Ersaq minn nofs” – that’s normal talk.]
Scratch that, make is 4000/ 450000×100/1 and you get 0.8 %. Still not an invasion.
Daphne: I beg to disagree with your interpretation of “culture” in this context. We have one culture in Malta but different Maltese social groups may have different mores.
[Daphne – I am afraid you are wrong. We do not have one culture in Malta but several. It goes way beyond mores. When the situation is that people from different groups might as well be from different planets, what you are looking at is separate cultures and not different mores.]
It is this latter word you could have used in this context. Whether you like it or not, your culture is Maltese, no matter how much you might prefer to think of yourself differently.
[Daphne – There is no such thing as ‘Maltese culture’ but different cultures that are Maltese. Yes, my culture IS Maltese, but that culture is not the same as other cultures which are also Maltese.]
It is the culture of the immigrants which is truly a different culture from ours.
[Daphne – Which immigrants would you be talking about? All immigrants in general? You are wrong. The culture of many immigrants is immediately recognisable to me. We share the same socio-cultural values and roughly the same interests, codes of behaviour and the rest. But that is not the point. The point is that different cultures in the same place are a positive thing. A single homogenous culture is the reason life in a village or small town anywhere in the world is so boring that people want to escape it.]
I stress that I am not implying that one culture is necessarily superior to the other. There are, however, cultural usages, such as infibulation, which are thoroughy distasteful to a culture such as ours and which continue to be practised in the countries of origin in spite of laws forbidding them .
[Daphne – Why do you find the thought of different cultures so very disconcerting? I find this bewildering. Are you so threatened by the mere fact of differences, so comforted by sameness?]
The present feeling in the general population is the product of fear and fear may be necessary for self-preservation at times.
As Malta’s population has been, at least visibly, homogeneous in physical appearance and culture for centuries, fear is understandable.
[Daphne – Malta’s population is anything BUT homogenous in physical appearance. And what we see today is the RESULT of centuries of mixing. Some Maltese even have Indian, Japanese and Chinese features, let alone African. In my family alone, the various members don’t even look like they belong to the same ethnic group, let alone to the same bloodline. You really must be unobservant, or just blind to the facts because of constant exposure to them.]
Malta has nothing to gain from the immigrants and consensus on this is almost unanimous.
[Daphne – And here you are wrong too. Malta doesn’t only gain from immigrants, but actually cannot do without them. At our current birth rate, it will have to be immigrants who pay your pension, and immigrants are going jobs that Maltese can’t or won’t do.]
Both political parties agree that Malta must do what it can to have as many immigrants as possible re-settled or repatriated in terms of international law. In the meantime, immigrants must be sheltered and be treated in the most humane way possible as is the right of all human beings.
[Daphne – I trust you do realise that immigrants come from everywhere and not just from Africa. Why do you wish to remove only the Africans? Are you happy to have, for example, Irish people here, or Germans, or do you take the attitude that you have to put up with them because you have no choice? Germanse are very different to Maltese people in general. Do you fear them too? Do you consider their difference to be a threat?]
If large numbers remain in Malta, as will probably happen, it is legitimate to express preoccupation on the social impact on Maltese society in the future. This has nothing to do with racism. What happens in other European countries where large numers of immigrants and their descendants reside is common knowledge.
[Daphne – Indeed. Some of them end up running the country, like Sarkozy, or standing in line to run it, like Ed Miliband.]
We would do well to stop piliticisng this issue to gain political short-term advantage.
Sarkozy and Milibank are both Jews, well they all turn out to be from ONE culture. So much for diversity…lol
[Daphne – Sarkozy isn’t Jewish. Jewishness is considered to pass down only through the mother, and his mother was Roman Catholic, while even his father converted to Catholicism. ‘Jewish’ is neither a country nor a nationality. It is a religion associated with ethnic origins. If it were only an ethnic grouping, then many Maltese would be Jewish, because we originally were. I suppose it fits well with your other prejudices that you would think of a person primarily as Jewish. In reality, Sarkozy is the son of a Hungarian immigrant to France, and Ed Miliband the son of Belgian immigrants to Britain, who were in turn the offspring of Polish immigrants.]
Nearly half the surnames in Malta and Gozo are of a Jewish origin, even the well known Italianate ones.
Here s something that might shatter their “Malta is the centre of the universe” mentality. What we call The Great Seige was not even a seige, and wasn’t that great either, it only lasted a summer, and the Ottomans were well into Europe already. They didn’t need Malta.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:OttomanEmpireIn1683.png
Interestingly enough, they claim that Malta saved Europe from the Ottomans but do not repeat the other old legend that we saved the world from Nazi-Fascism far more recently.
Perhaps they do not consider that such a good thing.
They really respect Dr Muscat’s no? Even though he told them that he does not need their support. “THE EU MUST GET THE MESSAGE CLEARLY AND SUPPORT OUR GOVERNMENT IN THE PUSH BACK POLICY.” Dr Muscat is trying to erase the word “PUSH BACK” and they bring it back in for him. “The Traitors of this country should retreat”. Do they really know what traitor is? Now they want EU’s help? Wonder how many of them voted YES in the EU referendum.
My answer to the Malta Taghna Team:
No, I won’t be joining you to support our government in the push-back policy ….. because push-back is ILLEGAL and I do not support things that are illegal.
Why must “EVERYTHING MUST BE LEGAL” when their demonstration is urging the government to perform an illegal act?
Let them come out and be counted.
The real traitors are those in favour of a push-back policy. Push-backs are illegal and against fundamental human rights.
Those who are in favour are giving our country a very bad image in the eyes of the whole world. They are therefore the real traitors.
I doubt they will make Malta look bad. Maybe in the eyes of a few stupid EU commissioners, some NGO’s and some “authors”.
But most normal people from other European countries which have their own problems of illegal immigrants will agree with a push back policy.
[Daphne – I see you are not yet clear on the matter of violations of human rights not being subject to majority rule. So, I shall repeat: push-backs are a violation of human rights. Therefore, it matters not a jot whether the majority want them or not, because the majority, just like any minority, are subject to the rule of law.]
Actually I was reading the comments underneath an article about Malta’s attempt to push back the recent illegal immigrants on a UK online newspaper, I can’t remember which one but it was a reputable one and most of the people commenting agreed with push back and complained about how immigrants have become a huge problem in the UK and how crime has shot up and how immigrants are taking over.
[Daphne – Reputable newspapers, Mr Mifsud, do not make for reputable readers on line. Nor for particularly intelligent ones. It is not as though we don’t have our own example here, with timesofmalta.com Refer to the point about majority rule and human rights violations, above.]
Maybe push backs is not the solution because it is illegal but something must be done sooner rather than later or before we know it these people (the illegal immigrants) will be demanding even more rights. In the UK radicals are even calling for Sharia law.
[Daphne – Human rights, Mr Mifsud, are not demanded. They are inalienable. UK radicals may call for sharia law. There is freedom of speech in the UK as there is in the rest of the free world. For precisely the same reason, among others, they will not get it. I suppose the irony escapes you that until fairly recently in historical terms, Malta lived under the Roman Catholic equivalent of Sharia law. We still have the last remaining vestiges of that in our marriage law. You might not find that frightening because it is what you understand and feel safe with. It is, however, a prospect that is disturbing to many others.]
If only our country was just slightly larger, the size of Rhodes will do, we would rule the world.
All one needs to do is get a proper police permit and then, one is free to march for or against anything or anyone. Irrespective of my views on the subject, failure to give applicants a permit allowing for free assembly or that curtails freedom of speech in any way whatsoever, would be a dangerous throw back straight back to the mid 80s!
[Daphne – You don’t need a police permit for a protest. Is it so hard to understand why not, in a democracy?]
The problem is not so much about this or any other protest taking place. The sentiment against illegal immigration has long since prevailed and has always been a relatively well handled powder keg.
This time round, Joseph Muscat’s lily-livered backyard bully antics have served little more than to bring the spark dangerously close to the powder. Surely, as PM keeping the nation’s best interests at heart, this was something that he must have also been duty-bound to avoid.
Unfortunately, we all know what happened to Prometheus after he stole fire.
Your detailed thread about this came after my comment and I was under the impression that to organise meetings and the like requires some form of permit due to the disruption they may cause to traffic etc.
In any case, its a god thing to know particularly since we will surely see our fair share of protests, and eventually riots if Labour keep up their excellent work.
What has happened to our education system? Shouldn’t education’s primary role be the development of democratic citizens?
Shouldn’t our educational system be producing people who know their rights but also their duties (including, protecting the vulnerable and respecting human rights)?
“THE EU MUST GET THE MESSAGE CLEARLY AND SUPPORT OUR GOVERNMENT IN THE PUSH BACK POLICY”.
What a bunch of retards. They don’t even get that according to our amoral government, the fascistic threat of a push back policy is not an end in itself, but a means to an end (compulsory burden-sharing).
According to our amoral prime minister, push-back is not a policy, but a last-resort measure.
Not to mention that only an idiot realistically hopes the EU would support criminal action.
We’re in for five years of hell.
Actually the EU is not against push backs if I am not mistaken. It is the EU Commission (EC) that is against push backs.
[Daphne – Have you learned NOTHING from this debate? Push-backs are illegal, full-stop. They violate human rights on several counts. There was a judgement of the European Court of Human Rights, last year. Malta has to apply that judgement not because it is in the EU, but because it is a signatory to the European Convention on Human Rights. Even if we were not in the EU, push-backs would be illegal.
The main reason push-backs are illegal is that they do not allow people the opportunity to apply for asylum and to stay until their case is decided. That is a violation of their human rights. Also, push-backs literally push the immigrants back to their point of departure, which might be unsafe. This is not the same as repatriation, which means sending them back to the country of which they are citizens.
“Actually the EU is not against push backs if I am not mistaken. It is the EU Commission (EC) that is against push backs.” Words almost fail me. What do you think the EU is? And what do you think the European Commission is? This is absolutely unbelievable. Somebody else please explain because I fear I might flip my lid while doing so.]
Yes but when we send them to Europe, they push them back to us….lol…..they don’t accept pushforward ?
[Daphne – Here’s another idiot who doesn’t understand that Malta IS Europe.]
Oh no Chris, I do not know in which corner of the island I would place you in, even my young children understand such simple issues.
Should you ever enter lets say the UK without a passport there is no way you will be sent back on the first plane until your application and reason to enter the UK is heard. This is just to save Daphne from flipping her lid.
Please let her dedicate her valuable time to better things, I was waiting for her last 2 sentences a much earlier.
I read your answer and I cannot find the reply button, so I will do it here….
So does this mean that you are going to move from your isolated Bidnija elite area,to the new elite area of Marsa ? Why doesn’t anyone see you walking the streets in that area sharing their high culture?
[Daphne – Don’t get out much, do you? If Bidnija is ‘isolated’, then I’m 25 again. Bidnija is effectively part of Mosta. Yes, I’m often in Marsa. All the pre-press work for my magazines is done there. The African immigrants are perfectly civilised. It’s some of the Maltese men I have problems with – they behave little better than goats.]
Your hypocrisy amazes me. Can you give me the names in your family that married Africans, if they are what you say they are, please. If they all ‘ white’, we can boil it down to racism or not high enough, I suppose. We need to source you claims because it sounds like another story from fairyland.
[Daphne – Where did I say that anyone in my family married Africans? You obviously can’t read.]
In fact, that’s why you forgot to mention them in your good taste magazine because they don’t belong there with your culture. You do copy my small good ideas for your spin propaganda, I noticed (wink) and featuring them in you magazine is as good as using cheap labor, a favorite within ex slave traders, is it not ? Make them cook for you now, it’s a good idea, right ?
[Daphne – Actually I’m descended from a slave, not a slave trader, so your cunning jibe sort of missed its mark. I can’t understand the rest of your comment, I’m afraid. It’s not coherent.]
Two legal international solutions do exist but your NGOs might not be so happy about that because its always about ” show me the money”.
[Daphne – I have no NGOs. You must be confusing me without somebody else you dislike.]
You are not exactly a charitable character in reality, I can see it how you treat people in real life.
[Daphne – You are in no position to know that. You don’t know me from Adam, and are unlikely ever to do so.]
In fact, it what makes you so infamous among a whole cross section of different educated cultures. I suppose its worth its worth it for the money, like your NGO friends. So?
[Daphne – The peasant utilitarian view of life: everything is done ‘for the money’. Actually no, this is a hobby. It costs me money.]
What’s wrong with my answer? it’s going to be uploaded on the whole Internet anyway, so you might as well do it yourself on your blog. God bless democracy and Facebook.
[Daphne – What answer, Farrugia? I’ve uploaded everything you’ve written. If you have a line there saying ‘Your comment is awaiting moderation’, that’s exactly what it means. I have 350 comments pending, so take a nap meanwhile. “uploaded on the whole Internet” – so very sad.]
Not all modern historians agree that the Christian victory in the 1565 siege “saved” Europe from the Ottomans.
[Daphne – No ‘modern historians’ even rank it, Socrates. The problem is Maltese people who think ‘Torok’ came from North Africa, not imagining for a minute that by far the easiest way for ‘Torok’ to get into mainland Europe was via…mainland Europe. Malta didn’t even figure in the equation, except as the HQ of the Order of St John. Anyway, why are we discussing this?]
This was a myth fostered by the Knights and fed to Maltese childen for many years. First of all, the Ottoman Empire included large areas of Eastern Europe such as Bulgaria and other parts of the Balkans. Secondly, the Ottomans remained quite strong after the siege, so strong as to almost take Vienna a hundred years later (1683). It was probably their defeat in 1683 that definitively signalled the beginning of the end which officially came about at the end of WWI.
The one thing they got right “we ……are inarticulate”
I constantly find that people in Malta have no idea how to distinguish the different roles different institutions hold. Furthermore they have no idea how to differentiate issues, making an entire mess of how they tackle arguments.