Saudi Arabia – what a bad place
Yesterday Saudi Arabia condemned the murder of 12 people at the Charlie Hebdo office in Paris. Tomorrow, it will continue with own hideous assault on freedom of expression, when Raif Badawi, who set up the Free Saudi Liberals website, will receive the first round of A THOUSAND lashes to which he has been condemned.
He will also spend a decade in prison and has been fined US $266,666 (1 million riyals).
Amnesty International said today that Raif Badawi will be flogged in public after Friday prayers in front of a mosque in Jeddah. His website carried articles critical of senior Saudi religious figures and others from Muslim history.
This is the behaviour which informs the thinking and actions of people like those who become involved in Islamic State.
74 Comments Comment
Reply to Ta'Sapienza Click here to cancel reply
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20150108/world/saudi-arabia-to-flog-activist-for-blasphemy.551096
What is revolting is that a member of this repressive regime was awarded a national honour during Republic day not so long ago.
So you see exactly what I mean when we see that the general Muslim ‘outcry’ is just a lightly camouflaged case of crocodile tears?
[Daphne – Why do you persist in generalising? I raised the subject of Saudi Arabia and this timely news report precisely because its words are in conflict with its actions and because it is an offender. Saudi Arabia is not ‘Islam’. It is not 1.6 billion Muslims. Unlike Roman Catholicism, Islam does not have a command and control centre and a Big Boss. There is no representative office. Saudis themselves are unhappy with the situation in their country. They too are Muslims, including the man who will be flogged tomorrow. What point are you trying to prove, exactly, because I’ve now lost track.]
Thank you for giving me space up to now.
This will be my last message on the subject.
You have called me silly, childish, and not sensible for trying to simply state that we are deluding ourselves if we do not try to analyze the link between the spread of Islam and the risk that Europe and its core freedoms may one day be irreparably eroded.
I hope Joseph slips up soon as you seem to be happier when I post on the subject of PL’s clusterfucks.
Good bye and good luck. :-)
The extremist profile does not include a specific race or include anyone who is Muslim.
In this article you can read about an aboriginal/Muslim Malaysian man born in Australia and having an Australian passport who is condoning the Charlie Hebdo murders. He denies extremist connections while he is shown in a photo with IS flags.
In the same photo is a Perth man allegedly named Matthew Smith but who calls himself ‘Terry Wrist’ – a play on ‘terrorist’. Smith who claims Islam saved him from drug addiction.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2727057/Perth-Islamic-preacher-denies-involvement-extremist-youth-group-nor-recruiting-Australian-reverts.html#ixzz3OG2UppIH
Saudi Arabia is an Islamic state that today is still carrying out outrageous cruel and humiliating punishments in violation of the UN Declaration of the Universal Fundamental Human Rights in support of its state religion, Islam.
There is no one so blind as those who have good eyes but keep them tight shut so as not to see the obvious.
I suppose this only applies to atrocities committed in the name of Islam, right?
@ “Liberal”
This post is about Saudi Arabia, hadn’t you noticed?
Yes I did, dear Francis. But I won’t let any totalitarian shut me up because I raise an inconvenient point. Free speech and all that.
@ Liberal
I am not aware of anyone trying to “shut you up” only myself trying to keep you on track and raising only relevant points no matter If you suppose that they are inconvenient when they aren’t..
It is difficult for me to remain polite and answer you Daphne, but despite (not inspite) of the basic schisms in islam the basic tenets are the same, much smaller than the protestants, lutherians et al and the rc’s. The koran supreme and all embracing. Whilst there is nothing more nicer than embracing all the humans in the world as brothers (or sisters), islam has a double standard, one weight for infedels and another one for believers (sic). In most enlightened countries, it does not matter if you stole from a Jew, RC, Buddhist or Sunworshipper, you get what you deserve, yet infedels are treated different in sharia!
The last time I checked, in Malta, the penalty for blasphemy against the Catholic religion is harsher than that for blasphemy against other religions.
Islam’s Holiest sites are there, and that includes Mecca where the Hajj takes place whilst the House of Saud are its official and undisputed custodians.
Daphne, have you ever read about “Taqiyya” as per Koranic teachings?
Islam is a very disorganised religion, without a leader, stuck in the Middle Ages in a tribal context, without hope of reform, as the Muslims believe the Koran has been penned by God through the Prophet.
So the scripture is in itself supernatural including Sharia Law. We can try to be politically correct and not generalise but the fact remains that this cult has produced the most fanatics and fundamentalists the world has ever seen.
And it is worth saying that the definition of a fundamentalist or Wahabi is still yet to define in my opinion.
Hence many are scared of Islam because of this and in all fairness rightly so, as neither the governments with their very advanced secret services and psychological profiling in Europe managed to identify fundamentalists 100%.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya
Rest assured that the outrage felt in Iranian middle-class society and their counterparts in Sunni countries is genuine. If only Mossadegh hadn’t been ousted. If only the US hadn’t been allied to those Saudi Bedouins, we wouldn’t have been having this conversation.
“Generalizing”, meaning referring to practices prevalent among the vast majority, is perfectly legitimate, as long as it is understood that there would be exceptions that confirm the general rule. It is correct to say that humans have two hands even though a very small minority are born with one hand.
I don’t think that there is a word bad enough to describe these monsters’ actions.
Revolting.
Investiment barrani.
#Iamarightcharlie
On a similar note :
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2901821/Brunei-bans-Christmas-Islamic-nation-outlaws-celebrating-festivities-fear-leading-Muslims-astray.html
Happy holidays, Salv. Ghax niehdu ghalina.
That sounds familiar, doesn’t it?
http://www.independent.com.mt/articles/2014-08-18/news/man-arrested-and-sent-to-mount-carmel-after-peaceful-protest-outside-pms-office-6241222657/
http://daphnecaruanagalizia.com/2013/03/arrested-at-9-30pm-for-posting-three-videos-mocking-joseph-muscat-at-7-30pm-the-golden-years-of-labourpolice-hell/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Monday_%28Malta%29
But we’re all French. Haven’t you heard?
While Joseph was declaring himself as French, the rest of the world had declared itself as Charlie.
Ara kemm iddandnet Michelle fil-ghaxija – “Are you feeling French tonajt Joseph?”
To which he replied, “Lajk hack I em Michelle. If we ever menege a turd won we call her Lune.”
But at least we honour them, as they have money, and you never know when they might be useful.
The honour bestowed on Alwaleed bin Talal bin Abdulaziz Alsaud, a prominent member of the Saudi ruling family, is akin to the rubbing of salt in those 1000 lashes. Joseph Muscat should be ashamed of himself.
A monarchy that rules unhindered is equivalent to a totalitarian state or the islamic state as we have it. They are all opponents of freedom and democracy.
A thousand lashes is tantamount to a death penalty.
It’s worse… it’s death by torture
The Saudis, on best-buddy terms with those who pull Obama’s strings, have repeatedly been caught funding terrorism since at least the advent of Al Qaeda. They were also exposed as the suppliers of the chemical weapons used by the Islamists in Syria for their 2013 false-flag operation against Bashir Assad.
And speaking of Syria, can anyone here give a rational explanation of why the West would want to destabilise a secularist administration that has safeguarded the rights of Christians, Jews and Muslims alike? Can anyone explain why the West has been fuelling a civil war that will hand over Syria to Islamic extremists?
It’s a tough one for those who believe the lies of the Western puppets and the corporate media that keep you in blinkers.
Allow me, Kev – you people keep confusing stability with an oppressive minority keeping the majority under a jackboot.
It is not so. Bashar Al Assad is part of a hated minority himself, that is why he is not as harsh on the Christian minority of his country.
That didn’t stop him from denying the Armenian genocide to please his Turkish Islamist exBFF and allowing the precursors of DA3Sh to use Syria as a retreat from which they launch attacks on American soldiers and Iraqi Shiites back in 2005.
Of course the Western powers are idiots and hypocrites, they should have taken him out and initiated negotiations with the likes of Iran and Russia. Bashar al Assad is no valiant defender of his country, however.
Secular dictators were never a reliable defense against Islamists who have influence precisely because of the oppression and totalitarianism of the likes of Assad. Many secular dictators were not adverse to appealing to religious sentiment and sponsoring Islamists when it suited their aims
That should be “launched”.
This is all mainstream swill, wormfood.
But one error I made was to portray the conflict in Syria as a ‘civil war’. In fact it is not a civil war but a foreign invasion since the IS fighters are foreigners. That is why the traditional Syrian opposition and the vast majority of Syrians have been siding with Assad.
These supposedly Islamic extremist are not religious at all, and this is a known fact. They are criminals on a rampage, looting oil, trafficking drugs and young girls, with psychopathic bosses eager for power and wealth. All in the name of Allah.
You say the Western powers are idiots and hypocrites. I’d replace the word ‘powers’ with ‘puppets’.
It has long been exposed by real investigative journalists that most of the conflicts across the world, from Ukraine to Libya and Nigeria are linked inasmuch as funding and support are concerned. They are largely stage-managed. Al Qaeda, ISIS, Boko Haram, or whatever name they’re given – you always find the same hands messing about, depending on sphere of interest, These are the usual Saudi suspects together with the global intelligence network, mainly CIA, Mossad, and British, French and Turkish intelligence.
False flags have become the order of the day – we’ve had numerous false flags in the US (the most ridiculously in-your-face and amateurish spectacle being the Sandy Hook hoax – it’s as obvious as it is incredible, once you investigate of course).
In short, it’s not about religion, it’s about wealth, power and control – not for an individual nation or group of nations, but for the global cabal that you believe does not exist.
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20150108/local/full-list-most-former-ministers-relegated-as-busuttil-reshuffles-shadow-cabinet.551016
Re your response to Someone.
If a mere 5 % of 1.6 billion people are extremists , that’s 80 million equal to Germany’s population. That’s 80 million wanting to be rewarded with 72 virgins in heaven .
But don’t worry there are are 1.5 billion plus , peaceful Muslims you can sit down with , and discuss women’s rights , diversity , freedom of expression , democracy . Go figure.
Without inconveniencing Saudi Arabia, I could point to flagrant inconsistencies closer to home.
How else could one describe our leftish liberals united in cacophonous condemnation of the Paris shootings yet actively chastising of any reporting into the Leisure Clothing saga?
Don’t expect much from the KSA. Less then ten years ago the religious police used to rip satellite dishes off people’s roofs, black out baby’s faces on pamper diaper packs and that was just what we got to see first hand.
The Wahhabi version of Islam is the most extreme, the most violent and not surprisingly predominantly Saudi.
The royal family has reduced the size of the religious police considerably in the last few years, but culture and mentality so ingrained takes ages to wipe out. Look at our own and we will stop being surprised, I suppose.
Hardly a whimper of protest from the US government. What a contrasting attitude towards North Korea. Two bad places: one has huge oil reserves, the other has skinny rats.
People need to realise that Saudi Arabia is a bad place not because of Islam but because the al Saud family is using Islam to control the country. Turkey is not in this situation because of Islam but because of Erdogan and he really needs to go.
If anything the royal family, odious as its members are, is one of the more liberal factions there. As for Turkey, it’s far more backward than you seem to realise.
Does the good Maltese Imam agree with giving 1000 lashes to a human being? I cannot see God watching it while smoking a huge cigar and having a black coffee.
The power of social media:
In Saudi Arabia… ”Earlier this year, footage of religious police attacking a family outside a shopping mall in the capital, Riyadh, was posted on You Tube, registering more than 180,000 hits and generating much social media criticism of the force.
In January King Abdullah replaced the head of the religious police, Sheikh Abdulaziz al-Humain, with Al al-Sheikh, who swiftly banned the activities of “volunteers” who take it on themselves to chase or detain arrest presumed sharia violators.”
Of course this blaming of ‘volunteers’ does smack of an attempt to deflect blame from the religious police onto volunteers but still it is pressure which has put things in motion and raised awareness.
http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2012/03/28/saudi-religious-police-lethal-drop-car-chases-in-effort-to-improve-image/
Saudi Arabia is the closest thing Islam has to a command and control centre, at least for the majority Sunni sect.
Certainly most Muslims consider it to be so. If you ask a Muslim why there are no churches allowed anywhere in Saudi Arabia he will say that Saudi Arabia (not just Mecca) is the Islamic equivalent of Vatican City and Catholics would not allow a mosque in Vatican City.
I personally have had this argument put to me by various ‘moderate’ Muslims.
The best way to put this news item in perspective is to consider the Catholic equivalent, which would be Stephen Fry receiving a thousand lashes in St. Peter’s Square for participating in the debate. “Is the Catholic Church a force for good”. This is an excerpt:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6L1xvdZMC10
You can see the full thing here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrIHw0fZNOA
[Daphne – Less than 300 years ago, yes, Stephen Fry would have been punished physically for that. We are fortunate because secular developments in Europe controlled the excesses of the Roman Catholic Church (and of various breakaway groups) and reduced its power. It then had to ‘shrink to fit’, and adapt to survive.
There were no comparable secular (I use this single word as a cypher for the mass of evolutionary changes that made European society what it is today) developments outside Europe. The Americas, Australia – European cultural exports. The people who live in countries where those developments did not take place are not as lucky as we have been. They shouldn’t be viewed with hostility.
Most do not want to live that way but have no way out. They are where we would have been – in terms of personal liberty – 400 years ago. Europeans of 400 years ago were not happy living the way they did, and that is the reason for the very long and very bloody road of change that brought us to where we are today. The natural human drive is inexorably towards freedom. The only way that drive can be controlled or eliminated (as in North Korea) is through the creation of highly unnatural situations in which people are literally kept prisoners (guarding of borders) or ruled through extreme fear.
Worth reading: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/31/combat-terror-end-support-saudi-arabia-dictatorships-fundamentalism
Then there’s this, too:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/17/saudi-clerics-fatwa-declares-terrorism-heinous-crime-sharia-law ]
The natural human drive is not towards freedom, but towards competition. History teaches us as much.
Can Joey enlighten us why his government decided to bestow a medal to a Saudi prince last December? Was it for upholding some cherished human right or for some other yet unknown ‘talent’?
For what’s it’s worth, sign this: https://campaigns.amnesty.org/actions/write-for-rights-raif-badawi
Ironically, also yesterday, 35 people were killed in Yemeni capital Sanaa. No one cried “today we are all Yemeni” and not a single Maltese politician made any PR gesture out of this tragedy.
Eight civilians were blown up by Ukrainian army artillery fire near Donetsk. Also yesterday. No T-shirts with “I am Ivan” and “I am Oleg” prints.
A couple of weeks ago – horrendous massacre of children in Pakistan. No cameramen-infested vigils for self-gratifying cowards and hypocrites to boost PR.
Air strikes by “forces loyal to internationally recognized Libyan government” against “non-recognized government” kill scores in Misrata and in Zuwara. Who cares? Rejoice, for the Tyrant is gone and the Forces of Light prevailed.
Yesterday’s sad attack in Paris was a logical consequence of French involvement in overseas conflicts, support for jihadis in Syria, failure of several domestic policies, as well as the irresponsible racial and religious hatred-inspiring acts of the victims themselves. Freedom is responsibility. Freedom of speech included.
With all due respect but , when one refers to the extreme repression in Saudi Arabia one has to keep in mind that the kingdom of Saudi Arabia is also the custodian of the Islamic world’s holiest shrines and the epicentre of Muslim worship – the Hajj pilgrimage.
While in Malta more ominous rumbling is heard:
”New Home Affairs Minister urges media not to undermine institutions.
New Home Affairs Minister Carmelo Abela has urged the media, particularly the Opposition media, not to undermine institutions, in this case the Police Force, by publishing unverified reports.”
http://www.independent.com.mt/articles/2015-01-08/local-news/New-Home-Affairs-Minister-urges-media-not-to-undermine-institutions-6736128366
This from a government minister who is sitting on a finalized report of why a person who attacked police officers in the police station was not charged.
Flogging violates the absolute prohibition of torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment in international law. Click here to add your name to Amnesty International’s urgent action campaign for Raif Badawi:
http://act.amnestyusa.org/ea-action/action?ea.client.id=1839&ea.campaign.id=34661&ea.tracking.id=Country_SaudiArabia~MessagingCategory_CensorshipandFreeSpeech&ac=W1501EAIAR3&ea.url.id=345443
The Islamist interpretation of blasphemy and the Saudi interpretation of blasphemy are not what most Maltese understand when the word blasphemy is used. This is clearly seen from reading people’s comments on blogs.
Someone asked a 14 year old boy, who was selling coffee in Syria, for a free cup of coffee. “Not even if the Prophet himself returns,” he replied, laughing. That remark was a death sentence. He was beaten and then shot for blasphemy.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-23139784
[Daphne – You make it sound as though he stood trial in a Syrian court. In actual fact, he was shot on the spot by thugs. The horror here is not the penalty for blasphemy (as this was not a penalty for blasphemy) but the impunity with which these thugs are behaving. This case illustrates the point I have been trying to make that what has been happening is not Muslims vs Rest of World, but Terrorists vs Everyone Else Including Muslims.]
But people’s minds, here and elsewhere, do not work like that, like it or not.
The programme goes as follows.
The terrorists were Muslims.
There are moderate and radicalised Muslims.
The higher the percentage of Muslims, the higher the percentage of radicalised Muslims, hence the probability of a terrorist attack, organised or lone wolf style.
We do not know what sparks a moderate Muslim into a radicalised one.
We sheltered them, they are ungrateful.
Result: Total mistrust, anti-immigration sentiment all across. There is no avoiding this fact. Even if now it is not possible, the European population will create in their minds a Utopic nostalgia for a Europe without Muslims, if not a political aim.
With all the problems Europe had, this is one too many, because Islam is alien to Europe. Hence the inevitable rise in the far right. Vide the wave of anti-islamic protests in Germany.
Other observation: the economic benefits of this wave of migration in terms of workforce is well offset by the cost of intelligence, bad touristic image and social mistrust and discontent. As Merkel said, multiculturalism has failed.
Last observation: When the perpetrators says ‘The Prophet is vindicated, Allah u Akbar’ there is no escaping the fact that this is an attack of a religious nature. Unless one is living in denial. You cannot defend the indefensible.
[Daphne – Ah, the problems of failure to learn from history. A ‘Utopic nostalgia for a Europe without Muslims’ can only be a dream for those who fail to factor in what happened when some Europeans had a dream for a Europe without Jews.]
You are right. I sacrificed clarity for the sake of brevity.
The list of blasphemous comments which Raif Badawi was found guilty of in the Saudi Court is difficult for a westerner to digest, here is just one of them:
Preventing women from fulfilling her rights and sounding her voice is a shock to intellectuals and it is definitely considered a backlash with ongoing effects on the reformist project led by King Abdullah and it rather leads to a retardation project that will be strongly rooted in the social life for a term of several centuries and that manifests the Islamic control on every aspect of life.
Silencing and disregarding these preventions will result in abstracting the freedom of speech from everyone and not only females, therefore, we have to demand the fulfillment of women rights in all aspects of life and women should object to this irreverence.
http://www.centerforinquiry.net/uploads/attachments/Badawi_Court_Order_Translation_Final.pdf
Money makes man rich, education makes him respectable.
Sa ftit snin ilu ma konniex il-boghod ahna. Tikteb il-kelma Malta jew Nazzjon u taqla xi xebgha jew jarrestawk.
Hekk derlu l-gvern socjalista.
http://www.ilgiornale.it/news/politica/hollande-sottovalut-lallarme-non-avvantaggiare-pen-1080874.html
What a mess.
French secret service had launched the alert since December 20th; a knife attack in a police station, followed by the incident in Dijon where another tries to mow down 13 pedestrians with his car, and another one still, with a van in an open market.
Police security around the offices had been suspended, even though the editor was on Al Qaeda’s hit list.
‘..Come ricordava ieri Antonio Fischietti – uno dei pochi redattori sopravvissuti alla strage – l’auto della polizia destinata alla sorveglianza del settimanale da tempo non passava più. E quella con a bordo due poliziotti, immediatamente individuati ed eliminati dai terroristi, è arrivata solo a massacro compiuto…’
The older of the two brothers had been arrested for terrorism, and both somehow made their way to Yemen for training even though American intelligence had them on the no-fly list.
http://video.repubblica.it/dossier/assalto-al-charlie-hebdo/hebdo-rap-e-moschea-uno-dei-ricercati-nel-documentario-della-tv-francese/188267/187171
Hollande should hang his head in shame.
To top it all, an army of 80,000 men can’t find them, with another ten arrested. And they seem to have ‘lost’ the second getaway car.
‘ Islam does not have a command and control centre.’
I can’t get to believe this and I fail to understand how intelligent people do. What happened in France and the 101 other acts of hate and revenge, all in the name of Allah cannot be the slip shod happy go lucky actions of minions who take it on themselves to avenge their beliefs.
These cannot be but satellite groups sprouting down the grapevine of a definite command and control centre that would, of course hypocritically condemn the actions subsequently.
[Daphne – Yes, of course – not Islam though. Terrorist organisations like Al Qaeda. I’m talking about the equivalent of the Vatican. Islam doesn’t have that. The structure is not hierarchical in that way. We know – the world knows – what is legitimately Roman Catholic and what is not because the Vatican pronounces itself whenever there is a breakaway group, renegade bishop, and so on. Islam doesn’t have that administrative structure.]
There is no similarity between the Vatican of today and the current Al Qaeda style terrorism.
The Holy Kuran is a unifying element common to all prominent Muslim sectarian divisions. Not one of those divisions has renounced the criiminal terrorism of any one of the “breakaway groups” practicing Holy Jihad against all infidels simply because they are “unbelievers”.
The absence of any controlling central administrative structure is irrelevant. All the prominent separate units share a common rejection of the UN Charter of Fundamental Universal Human Rights regarding the freedom to choose (and therefore to change) one’s religion, to practice the chosen religion openly and without being subjected to cruel degrading punishments.
Please let us stop defending the indefensible under the excuse that Muslim terrorism in the name of Allah is widespread throughout an Islam that does not have a central administration like a Vatican that, in any case, is viified by those who somehow, one way or another, find excuses for Moslem terrorism.
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20141213/local/saudi-billionaire-among-those-honoured-during-republic-day-ceremony.548013
He cannot possibly receive a thousand lashes. A small fraction of those would kill any man. So his sentence is really death by flogging.
[Daphne – They’re going to be staggered.]
50 lashes a time, not more than a week apart, i.e. every Friday for the next 20 weeks, starting today.
How civilised.
May I contribute with a comment I read elsewhere:
“Not all Muslims are terrorists. However all terrorists are Muslim.”
Whereas I agree with the first statement, the second one is indeed way too generic. Yet, it is not possible to ignore the fact that most terrorists are indeed so-called Muslims, or at least, they proclaim themselves as such to hide behind the veils of Islam.
The Muslim world must therefore take the bull by its horns and do much more than simply condemn these acts.
It should wage its own war on terror hand in hand with the Western world. Someone must put a stop to all this and unless they show the necessary initiative and commitment, their failure to do just so will have the inevitable and regrettable consequence of all Muslims being branded, lock, stock and barrel, as terrorists. Perhaps it is already too late.
Unfortunately, too much is made of the assumption that ‘normal’ Muslims abhor such attacks.
One picture stuck in my head is that of some Libyan acquaintances of mine dancing and whooping with glee immediately after the 9/11 attacks.
I always had regarded these ‘friends’ as decent folk until then.
[Daphne – A common and unfortunate error Maltese people make is to assume that there are no class/socio-educational distinctions in North African and Middle Eastern countries. Your friends sound like the equivalent of the sort of men who used to be in the front line at Mintoff’s mass meetings. Would it be appropriate if an outsider to Maltese society were to assume that all Maltese people think and behave that way, or that Maltese society is homogenous? And that’s just an island of less than half a million people we’re talking about. How much less wise, then, is it to generalise about many states with populations of many millions? Do you have much in common with somebody living in a favela in Brazil, just because you are both Roman Catholics? ‘Muslim’ is not an ethnicity.]
I agree that class and social background are very relevant.
However that tends to put such people into the majority rather than the other way round.
I have nothing in common with a favela Brazilian. However what do ISIL, Taliban, Bokho Haram, Al Shabab, Al Qaeda, Muslim Brotherhood, Ansar al Islam, Ansar al Sharia, Jundallah, Hezbollah and countless other social groups have in common?
[Daphne – A lot of disaffected and problematic young men led by older men with a hunger for power, money and control. You might as well ask what all drug cartels the world over have in common. Or what terrorism in general has in common, whatever the cause. Terrorism doesn’t create the market for problematic men. Problematic men create the market for terrorism. But are we women proposing the elimination of men on the grounds that wherever there is terrible violence you will inevitably find a man? No, we are not.]
I’m not proposing the elimination of anyone. There are enough disaffected young men as you described them, at it.
As for the power-hungry older men, they’re usually called Mullahs and Imams. We rightly blamed the MLP for their numerous thugs. Why should the instigators be absolved and treated with kid gloves?
Some context:
Jeannette Cutajar True, not all Muslims are terrorists….but all terrorists are Muslims…..
January 7 at 10:37pm
Corinne Vella That’s an impression created by media focus on Islamic groups. http://www.wonderslist.com/10-non-islamic-terrorist-organisations/
10 Non-Islamic Terrorist Organisations in the World
Yesterday at 9:19am
Jeannette Cutajar Yes you’re right there Corinne, but the difference is that these terrorists groups fight mainly in their own country and not in countries where they emigrated to….
Yesterday at 12:12pm
Corinne Vella The IRA is active outside Ireland, including the bombings in London using Semtex transported through Malta, and financed by illicit trade involving Maltese in Malta. Terrorism is international by nature. Drugs and other illicit trade prop up and finance criminal and terror networks.
Yesterday at 12:22pm
Astrid Vella Jeanette Cutajar, you seem to be forgetting the German Bader Meinhof terrorists and Italian terrorist groups of which Brigate Rosse was only one of many. Basque terrorists have been most effective in killing outside their terrain, while Israel’s Mossad…See More
10 hrs
Jeannette Cutajar You’re right there….but at the moment that’s what it seems like with all the beheadings going on and fanatical Muslims wanting to introduce Sharia law in other countries…..
3 hrs
Outrageous governments passing and upholding outrageous laws:
Saudi Arabia bans women from driving but let us also remember that Russia has listed transsexual and transgender people among those who will no longer qualify for driving licences.
Fetishism, exhibitionism and voyeurism are also included as “mental disorders” now barring people from driving.
Russia cannot blame religion can it? It actually justifies its position by saying that accidents have increased. I would love to see the studies that back Russia’s reasoning.
We must not forget that a driving ban has much wider implications than the simple act of driving, because it impinges on work and study options and access to certain locations among others.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30735673
Can you see the Imams faĺling over each other to say that this is not in line with Muslim teaching?
Because I don’t need an imam to know it’s not. Neither do you.
Hadn’t we better take a good look at ourselves?
Can you see our progressive liberals falling over each other to say that smoking pot is not in line with secular values because a good chunk of the trade funds terrorist activities?
Can you see our politicians and bankers falling over themselves to say that welcoming Saudi and Qatari money into our banks is not in line with our human rights teaching because a lot of it is used to fund imams who foment terrorism?
Baxxter, would you apply your same argument to say that Labour and its officials were not responsible for the circumstances and the setting for the Curia, The times Eddie’s residence etc? Wouldn’t you have expected the party and its officials to disassociate themselves and to be forceful in their actions if they really meant it and had good order at heart? Wouldn’t you have expected them to ban offenders from the party? My expectations are consistent whether its Labour leaders and whether its is religious leaders
Not the same thing at all. The Imams have been falling over themselves.
Labour hasn’t, nor has it ever apologised. On the contrary, it sabotaged democracy and stole an election (2013), then proceeded to erect a statue to the most evil man ever to rule Malta.
Daphne , I feel you are drawing incongruous parallels between terrorists who kill in the name of God and criminals who happen to originate from Catholic countries.
Drug cartel killings are motivated to protect their BUSINESS. Whether they are practising Catholics or not, is purely coincidental.
Islamic terrorism is fuelled in mosques by some extremist Imam’s instigating violence by quoting from the Quran. You are wrong to conclude that these are disaffected youths. Some terrorists abandon their careers, profession to join a terrorist training camp.
[Daphne – Yes, because they are disaffected. Careers and professions? I see no neurosurgeons going off to Syria to train for IS. They are mainly individuals from the lower rungs of society, with fragmented family backgrounds and dull jobs or no job at all. You should fine-tune your definition of business. For the leaders of these people, this IS their business. It’s a major source of money and power. Even the IRA ran businesses (illicit) in smuggled cigarettes and illegal drugs. You start out by using this to fund your terror, and then it becomes an end in itself.]
As I said in one of my earliest posts after the Charlie shooting, this is going to be one subject that you will stand your ground no matter what the counter arguments are. I’m not saying you must agree with my views, but unfortunately you are making incongruous and sometimes illogical arguments in an attempt to justify your viewpoint.
[Daphne – My arguments are logical, Freedom5. It is those who call for oppression to guarantee freedom who are inconsistent and illogical, and worse, do not understand the inherent danger in their wishes. The elimination of Muslims to solve the real or perceived problems caused by a few Muslims is the Hitlerian view.]