RACISM AT ITS WORST – THIS IS WHAT LIBERAL JOE SHOULD TALK ABOUT, INSTEAD OF LEAVING IT ONLY TO THE PM
The Times, Letters to the Editor
Friday, July 27, 2012 by
From Christine Smith, St Paul’s Bay
Racism at its best
On Monday, at about 8.45 a.m. I was going to Mosta on bus no. 41 or 42.
A black lady with two children got on the bus with a pushchair. She tried to manoeuvre it into the gap where pushchairs should go. A Maltese man stood there with his foot in the way, obviously not going to move.
The lady asked him not to kick her pushchair and to move his foot, whereupon he started swearing at her and calling her a “…. black monkey” and other horrid things.
The people on the bus asked for calm and I thought they were siding with the lady. When the man got off the bus, the lady rightly said something to him and then all hell broke loose. Almost half the people on the bus joined in the abuse and told the lady to get back where she came from and called her “nigger” etc.
It was quite scary and I felt sorry for the lady and also for the two children. Experiencing this kind of behaviour cannot be good for them.
I thought most of the Maltese were Catholics and are known for their friendliness! I am not religious but even I know the bible says “Love thy neighbour”.
I have visited many places and never have I experienced racism like this. It made me ashamed to say I live in Malta.
I hope the people responsible read this but I doubt they will. I just wish I had had the courage to speak out on the bus. I did touch the lady’s arm when I got off and told her I didn’t agree with the Maltese people.
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I’m surprised that the Arriva driver didn’t interfere in this matter when the Maltese man didn’t bother to move from the reserved place.
I happened to be on the bus when a passenger was seated on one of the reserved seats for special needs and mothers with strollers.
This passenger had no clue that these seats were reserved, and when a mother with a pushchair tried to fit in, it was the driver himself who asked politely the other passenger to move and find an other place.
It’s nice to say that the same driver helped the mums with the pushchair getting on and off the bus.
Yes, cat – but then you do not say that in this case the mother was black. The Maltese are Catholics, but precious few have any idea where Christianity starts.
Maltese give proof of their Catholicism by sending out lay and clergy missionaries to needy poor countries inhabited by “blacks” – our own President of the Republic has just returned from one such mission.
Inveterate bashers of Malta’s Catholics writing in this blog do not show any Christianity locally or abroad. They crticise racist statements by some Maltese – and rightly so – but then they make excuses for provocative anti-Maltese racist taunts by foreigners on our public transport.
Yes, Francis, let’s help the poor, but keep them away from our country – is that your version of Christianity?
And Francis, you still have not told us since when kangaroo has become a racist slur when addressed to a Maltese person, even if we ignore the fallacy of thinking of the Maltese as a “race”.
@ Kenneth Cassar, (today at 3.21 and 3.29 PM)
I told you yesterday (July 31 at 11:54) in no uncertain terms that unless you show some improvement in your manners I shall be ignoring you. There is no trace of such improvement.
In a blog of The Times you promised that you will be ignoring me, accusing me falsely of writing “constant untruths”. Immediately, I exposed your latest blatant lie to prove who is in the habit of writing constant untruths.
You are unable to keep your promise but I intend to keep mine. I will do so as long as you do not overcome your habit of defamation by innuendo and of asking provocative rhetorical questions because you do not have the guts to write statements that would expose you to an action for libel.
“And Francis, you still have not told us since when kangaroo has become a racist slur when addressed to a Maltese person, even if we ignore the fallacy of thinking of the Maltese as a “race”.(Kenneth Cassar Aug 1 at 3:29 PM)
In case Mr Cassar is not using the royal plural, and in case there is actually somebody else who does not know the answer, here it is:
Calling a person a lower animal has been an insult ever since marsupials and Homo sapiens have co-existed on this planet earth. And the lower down in the evolutionary scale occupied by the species, the bigger is the intended insult.
Therefore calling a human being a kangaroo is a bigger insult than calling him an anthropoid ape such as a monkey.
Dear Francis,
Enough of your arrogance please (I am not your child) and just admit that your claim that kangaroo, when addressed to a Maltese person, is a racist slur, is your own invention.
And no, you haven’t exposed a single lie of mine, simply because I never lied.
And no, dear Francis, my questions are not rhetorical at all. I expect a reply. But of course, you will give none, because that would either mean you would have to admit you’re wrong, or else would expose your deep prejudices.
And what kind of statements do you have in mind when you say that I do not have the guts to write statements that would expose me to an action for libel? Please note that this is NOT a rhetorical question. You may take it as a challenge.
You won’t intimidate me with your threats of libel action. Now how about meeting the challenge and answering a simple question: In what way is calling a Maltese person a kangaroo racist? I hope that, in your frequently faulty logic, you don’t see this question and challenge as libellous. But feel free to take legal action if you wish, and make a fool of yourself.
As for credibility and lies, wasn’t it you, dear Francis, who blatantly lied about me and wrote that I insulted readers of The Times en masse as assorted bigots, fascists and racists?
Yes, dear Francis, you were definitely a big liar in that instance. Will I be expecting a letter from your lawyer just because I have exposed your lie?
By the way, dear Francis, you wrote on July 31 that unless I show some improvement in my manners, you shall be ignoring me. Now you say that there is no trace of such improvement, and that you intend to keep your promise (to ignore me).
Funny how, in the simple act of replying (despite my “not having improved my manners”), you have immediately broken your promise. It sure seems like you can’t help contradicting yourself.
Dear Francis,
Please explain how insulting a Maltese person by calling him a “lower animal” such as kangaroo, is RACIST.
Disgusting!
If this is a true story (keeping in mind The Times’ recent record on fact checking and general editorial standard), then the right medium would be to report it to the nearest police station and not a letter to a paper. I hope the police will follow it up.
[Daphne – I trust you will eventually learn to distinguish between a newspaper report and a letter to the editor.]
Naturally, but one would hope there is some sort of filtering to make sure that not every loony can publish anything that comes to mind.
Someone, I don’t think a letter such as this would require filtering out. Do you?
You should use public transport more?
I have seen a black man calling the bus driver ‘mother fuc’er’ twice, another black man ‘elbowing’ a local woman in her face, romanian woman beggars giving a local bus driver a piece of their mind,etc.
The maltese are seeing their country slowly being taken over by all kinds of foreigners,and worry about the future of their children who will have to face these people when the going gets tough:you may call me xenophobe but it does not change the fact that the majority of the maltese are worried,and if a party uses the ‘immigration’ card in the next election the maltese will vote for it in droves.
[Daphne – Oh FFS. If I write about Mintoff, the rabid Mintoffiani swarm in, and if I write about racism, the rabid racists start clogging up this blog. Go away.]
E. Muscat … grow a pair
Be careful what you say Nicky: http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20120801/world/italy-rules-no-balls-insult-for-men-is-a-crime.431000
“… the majority of the maltese are worried,”
The majority of the Maltese are worried about people like you E.Muscat.
@E Muscat, I suggest you spend a few years away from Malta The Far East perhaps. There you will be called (behind your back, of course) a foreign devil, a ghost man, damned ghost man, pointy nose and all sorts of derogatory terms simply because of your Caucasian genetic heritage.
The lesson you will learn there is that racism works both ways. The experience will either reinforce your xenophobe stance or (hopefully) lead you to appreciate that being discriminated against on the basis of skin colour and general appearance is humiliating.
I just love the logic. Once a black man elbowed someone in the face, therefore black mothers with their babies should be harassed.
It is people such as you that makes me sad to be human. We are endowed with highly functioning brains, with the capacity for solidarity and compassion, yet you somehow trigger only the primate part of your pitiful excuse of a head.
The saddest part is that this was a mother with her baby – something most people relate to the most sacred of our existence. Yet this ape thought that was the most suitable target to vent his pitiful hatred on.
Who is the ape, pray?
Is it the black lady who started it all by calling a Maltese passenger a “kangaroo” or is the Maltese who subsequently retorted by calling her a “monkey”?
In my opinion both were wrong but neither was an “ape”.
Sure, Francis, “she started it all”. And we all believe you. May I remind you that this is not The Times where the assorted fascists and racists seem to convene?
@ Kenneth Cassar.
This “learned doctor” does not care whether you believe anything. Others may note that neither Ms C Smith nor anybody else on that coach contest my version of what really happened.
Dear Francis,
You are assuming that just because many people don’t follow your comments in The Times, they automatically admit you must be right.
Again, you assume too much.
@Kenneth
I agree with you on many topics you comment about in the Times, however in this particular case it seems to me that you’re not being just in your comments to Francis Saliba.
Francis states that he has witnesses that contradict or expand upon what was written in the letter to the editor. I fail to understand why you are so adamant in rejecting Francis’ claims and wholeheartedly open in accepting the letter’s claims.
Perhaps it is because you are verbal rivals in the Times comments board? I don’t know about that, however from your comments I get the impression that in your eyes an immigrant cannot ever be guilty of anything while a Maltese must, by definition always take the blame. Now this concept is obviously nonsense. Every case must be considered on its own merits and every side considered as objectively as possible and I know that you are too much of a clear thinker not to realise this.
Yes, that Maltese used a racist epithet, but if what Francis Saliba is saying is true, and frankly I have no reason to doubt him, then it seems to me that there was ample provocation and even at law, provocation is considered extenuating circumstance.
Besides when provoked to hurl insults people will choose insults to do as much psychological damage as possible – if the target is a fat person he’d be called pig or cow, a short one a “tapp” or “poison dwarf” perhaps. That is the differences will always be the first to get picked on and used as weapons in a fight. In this case it is pretty obvious what the major difference was.
I stil don’t understand exactly the context of the “kangaroo” epithet. One would have to be present and see both people involved in the argument, however “kangaroo” could be considered a racist insult depending on the context and how it is perceived.
@ Bubu:
Yes, Francis says that he has witnesses that contradict or expand on what was written in that letter. I am only adamant in rejecting their claims because the claims are not credible. You may wish to read my reply to Chris explaining why.
You ask me whether I do not believe him just because we are “verbal rivals in the Times comments board”. It is definitely not so in my case, but I suspect it might be in his. I can see no other explanation for not admitting, for instance, that calling a Maltese person a kangaroo is not a racist slur, albeit offensive just the same.
And yes, you really “I don’t know about that” when you say you get the impression that in my eyes “an immigrant cannot ever be guilty of anything while a Maltese must, by definition always take the blame”. I never made such an absurd claim, nor have I ever implied it. You’re making Chris’s same error in confusing my claim that it is very probable that a bus load of Maltese people would automatically take sides with a “compatriot” with saying that an immigrant is always right. That’s a non sequitur if there ever was one.
So yes, like I always say, every case must be considered on its own merits and every side considered as objectively as possible. But where no evidence is presented, I believe the most credible version until evidence shows otherwise.
As for provocation, I find the hypothesis that the Maltese person refused to budge despite occupying a reserved space far more credible that the other hypothesis that a mother with two children would board a bus and without being provoked ram her pushchair into another passenger. Like I said, until I’m presented with contrary evidence, I believe the credible version of events.
As for people calling names and hurling insults when provoked, yes, that’s true, and everyone who called another names did wrong, irrespective of who started it. I don’t believe I said that the black mother did right in calling the Maltese person a kangaroo (if she actually did). All I am disputing here is that calling a Maltese person a kangaroo is a racist slur. Insulting as much as it might be (I would actually laugh if someone called me a kangaroo) it isn’t racist.
I too don’t understand the context of the kangaroo epithet (if the word kangaroo was actually used, and she was not simply misunderstood). Perhaps it is because the Maltese person was fidgety and kangaroos hop? I don’t know.
But since you too are now claiming that calling a Maltese person a kangaroo might be racist depending on the context, would you kindly give me one hypothetical scenario where it could be perceived as such. Feel free to be imaginative as you like. I doubt you will succeed unless the person called kangaroo is Australian.
@ Bubu:
You may also wish to note that when I challenged Francis countless times to explain how calling a Maltese person a kangaroo could be racist, he first said my question was rhetorical, then said that I don’t deserve a reply, and then said he has already answered it.
And you expect me to believe him and his informers?
@ Bubu. 2 Aug at 8:55 AM
Mr Kenneth Cassar is prone to a knee jerk response as soon as he sees my name on any comment on any topic under the sun dating very far back in connection with my defense of Christianity against virulent atheist attacks mainly from abroad.
Dear Francis, Bubu already knows that I often reply to your posts. In fact he mentioned it himself.
It is obvious we seldom agree, and you have already stated, years ago in The Times, that you’d never concede a point if that gives “ammunition” to your enemies. This much is evident in your failure to reply to a simple question, and once again sidetracking the issue to an irrelevancy such as the fact that I often reply to your posts.
People are scared of change and ofa multicultural society.
The daughter of an Italian couple I know suffered racisim in a prominent private school in Malta.
The girl was around 4 years old when she arrived in Malta and started school. She was able to communicate in English in an English-speaking school as her parents had prepared her for that.
She was willing to befriend the Maltese children but they simply told her “we don’t want to play with you cause you’re Italian”.
It’s not only people with black complexions who suffer racism. Believe it or not the teachers and principal of this school never showed any kind of solidarity with this girl and her parents.
The parents decided to send the girl to another private school with an on going project between the Maltese and foreign pupils and the girl felt just fine from her early days in the new school.
The Maltese pupils were prepared and educated about having foreigners around so they didn’t feel threatened at all. It made part of their normal lives.
Where do children get the idea of racism from? It is a well known fact that in the children do not suffer from prejudice unless they reach a certain age and start absorbing certain ideas from us adults.
Xi dwejjaq ghandek, E.Muscat.
I use public transport everyday and on a particular stop, at exactly the same, there usually are two black men waiting for the bus. A particular driver failed to stop two days running and the bus was only half full. I reported the driver.
I can assure you reader E. Muscat that even Maltese people swear at drivers and it certainly is no benchmark of “black people’s” behavior when it comes to social mores on buses.
On the other hand, I’ve yet to see a black man who acts unkindly towards other fellow passengers.
What is it with these Muscats?
E. Muscat, what you posted above only shows your extreme level of ignorance.
e. muscat, do you know that there are Maltese couples who adopted African or other dark-skinned children and who are now being offended by your comments?
Certain bus drivers provoke these immigrants but I cannot say that bus drivers are all nasty. I had the exprience to meet some very well-educated drivers.
Oh well, as long as it wasn’t a ‘lesbian couple attacked by Arriva henchmen’. We’d see no end to videos on youtube.
Minority goup organisations could at least acknowledge the error in accepting to differentiate discrimination.
At least to explain to Joseph and his party the values of the rainbow flag.
Arriva on its website says that each bus has four CCTVs. The police should request the relevant footage. We all are childfren of the same Father, and no one under the sun has chosen his race or colour.
If the police do not take this up then they are partners in crime, but equally if the letter does not reflect the truth, then the law must be brought to bear on the originator.
For Liberal Joe, the end justifies the means.
If the “end” is walking up the stairs of Castille in 2013, there is no way he will say anything that may loose him the vote of those “Christians” on that 41 or 42 bus.
I’m counting the minutes until a “learned doctor” chimes in with his defence of people who “deservedly” take up places reserved for people with pushchairs or wheelchairs.
I presume you are referring to me because you cannot resist butting in on my comments whatever the subject.
As far as may doctorate in medicine is concerned, that cannot be helped – you have to lump it whether you like it or not.
As regards the “learned” bit, I do not lay any claim to that. I only seem learned to you and you should know the reason why.
If you think I was referring to you, why don’t you address the point I made instead of wasting our time on your usual irrelevancies? This is not The Times.
And while we’re on the subject, I’m pleasantly surprised that in your reply to Patrik you say that both the black lady and the Maltese racist (although, of course, you don’t call him that) were wrong. Funny. On The Times message board you implied that she deserved all the abuse she got.
But of course, your change of tune is understandable. Over here, you don’t have the support of the assorted bigots, fascists and racists.
By the way, when I mentioned “learned”, I was obviously being sarcastic. A learned racist is an oxymoron.
@ Kenneth Cassar, today at 6:44 p.m.
You cannot be trusted to understand what I write in straightforward English – much less are you competent to hazard a guess at what I could possibly imply. I never implied that the lady got what she asked for – that is your false attribution. I stated as a fact that she started the altercation, she passed the first racist remark (“kangaroo”) but racist expressions are always objectionable whether made by foreigners or by Maltese, even when provoked.
In one of my earliest comments in The Times (28 July at 06:44) I had already written: “It is immaterial whether this black lady is an illegal immigrant, a tourist or a legal immigrant. She would be entitled to civil non-discriminatory treatment in all cases”. Therefore there is no reason for you to pretend surprise when I echoed the same sentiment later in a comment @ Patrik
.
I insult neither the black lady nor her Maltese target as racists because I aim my criticism at wrong behaviour without stooping to insult people. I leave that to people who insult the readers of The Times en masse as “assorted bigots, fascists and racists” oblivious of the fact that you yourself are one of those readers.
I did not address the point you made because it did not merit another reply. I never defended people who ‘deservedly’ took up places reserved for ladies with pushchairs. I wrote that the reserved area on the coaches is not reserved exclusively for people with pushchairs but it was reserved for all disadvantaged passengers e.g. also the elderly or otherwise handicapped, and that there was no need to keep the reserved area unoccupied in a crowded coach in the expectation that some lady with a pushchair would eventually turn up. I also said that any lady with a pushchair should politely request that she be allowed to pass but not to use her pushchair as a battering ram or to be otherwise verbally or physically aggressive.
I never doubted that your reference to me as a “learned doctor” was meant to be crude sarcasm. My reply that, whether you like it or not, I am actually a medical doctor was not sarcasm. Neither was I being sarcastic when I doubted your ability to recognise learning or racists.
Dear Francis,
What you definitely said is that the persons who were in the reserved place deserved to be there (was it because they were there first, or because they were Maltese?), and that she started it all by her “racist” remark.
I would think that the ones who started it all were the ones who would not budge even though they were taking up a reserved place they had no right to occupy (once there was a lady with a pushchair on board) in the first place – and this, even if we were to concede (which I don’t) that she did hurl a racist insult.
I’m also still waiting for you to explain how, if she really said it, saying kangaroo to a Maltese person is racist. That surely must be a first.
I also find it surprising how, despite acknowledging that “It is immaterial whether this black lady is an illegal immigrant, a tourist or a legal immigrant…”, you fail to acknowledge that the inconsiderate, ignorant and ill-bred Maltese person/ in question should not have even waited for the lady to ask politely for them to move, but should have done the decent thing and made way for the person who had the right to occupy that space (which would have spared everyone all the commotion). Then again, you do consider deserved criticism of “compatriots” to be “servile”.
I also never insulted all the readers of The Times en masse as “assorted bigots, fascists and racists”, so enough of your lies already. Or does your “logic” tell you that to say that assorted fascists and racists convene on The Times message boards is synonymous with saying that all The Times readers are fascists and racists?
I also agree that the reserved area in a crowded coach need not be kept empty at all times. However, like I already said, the decent thing to do when someone with a pushchair/wheelchair etc turns up, is to make way for her without even being asked. But perhaps I come from a different background.
Finally, perhaps contrary to what you think, I don’t envy your doctorate. After all, doctorates don’t automatically give you manners, common decency and a good moral character.
The Times should have highlighted this letter in a news report, but this morning Franco Debono’s blog is more important.
More important than most blogs that you have written and which merit being investigated by The Times but their agenda is now well known.
I fully agree with Giovanni.
This is a dreadful story which should’ve been on the front page.
It just goes to show how warped the news values of The Times now are.
Ms Christine Smith’s account is incomplete, deceptively inaccurate and biased according to other passengers who were on that coach. I have given this other corroborated version in comments on the original letter to The Times.
Ms Smith did not challenge the version as given by me and she did not lodge a complaint with the police as she should have done if she were sure of her ground.
I do not have anything to add to my comments in The Times. . I will only repeat that racist insults are to be condemned unreservedly whether they are white against or when they are black versus white and should never be excused.
@ Francis Saliba MD
quote: [Ms Christine Smith’s account is incomplete, deceptively inaccurate and biased according to other passengers who were on that coach. I have given this other corroborated version in comments on the original letter to The Times.]
1. How many passengers were at the time on the respective coach?
2. How many of those passengers corroborated in/to/with your version?
3. Can you be quite sure that the corroborating passengers do not harbour any racist elements, be the elements perhaps only subconscious and/or only subthreshold?
And what makes your account complete, undeceptively accurate and unbiased? After all, both your informer and Ms Smith were eye-witnesses.
As for me, I find it hard to believe that someone would simply ram their pushchair into someone without being provoked. But if you want to believe the racists, it’s up to you.
@ Kenneth Cassar & Leo Said.
I am convinced about the accuracy of the version given by my informant for the simple reason that neither Ms Christine Smith nor any other passenger on that crowded bus have dared to challenge it, and also because since then, two more passengers have confirmed it to me. They are well known to me and they are not racists. If you have read my comments you would know that i am not a racist myself but I am allergic to those Maltese who believe that it is necessary to denigrate Malta and everything Maltese in order to qualify as a “do-gooder”.
The coach was a bendy-bus packed to capacity with standing passengers. The actual number would vary at each bus stop. What a silly and irrelevant question! What is decisively important and highly relevant is that up to now not one of them has come forward to corroborate Ms Smith’s version. None of them, not even Ms Smith herself have denied that the “something” that the lady shouted at the Maltese passenger was the racist epithet “kangaroo” or that Ms Smith believes that she was right to insult him by that racist remark.
Dear Francis,
Again, just because people might miss, ignore, or not bother with replying to your posts, you assume that means they agree with what you write.
By the same logic, if I were to write somewhere on The Times Online that you are a Mintoffian, and you do not come across that post and reply, then it must be true.
You now say that since then, two more passengers have confirmed your version of events. I’m actually surprised that the number is only two. But of course, as you say, they are “not racists”. And we have to take your word for it, I assume.
And please explain how calling a Maltese person a kangaroo is racist.
Racism is always hostility towards black people and never the other way round. Black people may harbour prejudiced views towards white people but are not racist.
Likewise, sexism exist when women are treated in an inferior way. However, some women may have prejudiced views about men but are not sexist.
The golden rule about this is to ask yourself a simple question. Which group holds a position of power? The answer would be white people in the case of racism and men in the case of sexism.
Discrimination on the basis of sex, sexuality, race, religion, employment status, disability, social class etc etc is offensive and abusive when it is misused by those in a position of power.
So in your view a racist slur by a black person against a white one is not offensive and acceptable?
But any retaliation by the white one is punishable by fine, imprisonment, corporal punishment and banishment from the realm?
Come on. Get real. An insult is an insult is an insult and it is offensive in whatever situation.
@ Bubu:
You’re being too simplistic. A slur, to be racist, has to both imply racial inferiority, and be understood to imply racial inferiority. Otherwise, it might be an insult, but not a racist insult.
Good Morning Francis Saliba MD,
quote: [The coach was a bendy-bus packed to capacity with standing passengers. The actual number would vary at each bus stop. What a silly and irrelevant question!]
Well, the question was as silly as the reason for your own conviction. Please allow me to quote your good self once again:
“I am convinced about the accuracy of the version given by my informant for the simple reason that neither Ms Christine Smith nor any other passenger on that crowded bus have dared to challenge it, and also because since then, two more passengers have confirmed it to me”.
quote: [What is decisively important and highly relevant is that up to now not one of them has come forward to corroborate Ms Smith’s version.]
How is above statement to be interpreted? From a legal aspect? From a psychological aspect (esprit de coeur and/or esprit de corps)?
A Maltese hill-billy calling a black woman a monkey, although shocking, is not too hard to believe.
However I get the feeling that whoever wrote this remained impressed by witnessing one act of racism and subsequently over-dramatised anything that might have happened afterwards.
No one is denying that an aggravated Maltese (not a hilly billy, please) retaliated against a racist comment uttered by a black lady (who had called him a “kangaroo”) by calling her a “monkey”..
What surprises me is the servile mentality of those Maltese people who find nothing wrong in calling a compatriot a “hilly billy” or that an aggressive black lady passenger calls a Maltese passenger a “kangaroo”.
My point is that racist epithets are objectionable and indefensible whoever uses them and against everybody else.
Francis, only people of the far-right use the “compatriot” card, when all that matters is who is right or wrong, and only people of the far-right believe that it is servile to criticise people just because they happen to have been born in the same country.
Yes, dear Francis, racists who call black people “niggers” are hillbillies (a slang term used to describe socially backward people).
And since when has calling a Maltese person a kangaroo become a racist epithet? Or was there perhaps an Australian on the bus? Can you please ask your impartial informer and get back to us, please?
A true gentleman would not react to a ‘kangaroo’ comment in that way.
The ‘ape’ retort is, if anything, an insult to apes.
He felt provoked bybeing called a kangaroo? How old is he – six?
Yes, I call a compatriot a hillbilly if he acts like one. I’ve called compatriots worse things than that. And anyone who says they never did is a liar.
And how does that make me servile?
@ Kenneth Cassar.
Evidently you are so uncouth that you are unable to address people civilly without cheap sarcasm (learned doctor) or improper familiarity ( Christian name or Dearies).
Until you improve your manners I will not try to argue with you that compatriot is a legitimate term to use for fellow nationals who are not traitors, that “kangaroo” applied to all human beings (including Australians) is just as offensive as “nigger” in polite society and that hilly billy is an offensive term to apply to any European.
@ Francis Saliba:
“Evidently you are so uncouth that you are unable to address people civilly without cheap sarcasm”.
Now that’s rich, coming from you.
“Until you improve your manners I will not try to argue with you that compatriot is a legitimate term to use for fellow nationals who are not traitors”.
I never said that compatriot is an illegitimate term. But of course, you fail to get the point, or pretend not to. So let me spell it out once again: In matters of right or wrong, nationality is irrelevant.
“that ‘kangaroo’ applied to all human beings (including Australians) is just as offensive as ‘nigger’ in polite society”
Ah, so now, calling Maltese people “kangaroo” has changed from being “racist” to being “just as offensive”. We might be getting somewhere, at long last.
“and that hilly billy is an offensive term to apply to any European”.
Of course it is. It’s intended to be offensive. And racists deserve all the verbal abuse they get.
Over-dramatised? Please elaborate.
@ Stefan Vella.
A true lady would not provoke anyone by shouting kangaroo at him.
@ Francis Saliba:
A true gentlemen would move out of a reserved space without even being asked to, when a lady with a pushchair boards a bus.
Over-dramatised, meaning that the shock of the man’s behaviour might have influenced her perspective of what happened next and she might have an over-dramatised view of what really happened.
I am a bit sceptical about the story and find it exaggerated that half a bus of people would be picking on a woman accompanied by her 2 kids.
@ Chris:
“I am a bit sceptical about the story and find it exaggerated that half a bus of people would be picking on a woman accompanied by her 2 kids”.
I would, too, were it not for the fact that the woman was black and is (or looks like) an immigrant.
Oh come on. Let’s not play the black card ok.
People should not start giving too much credibility to what they read just because the alleged victim is black.
You really believe that a bus full of people and nobody says anything? no report to the police or anything?
@ Chris:
You obviously have failed to understand my comment. I did not “play the black card”, and have not given more credibility to one side of the story just because the lady with the pushchair is black.
So let me explain once again.
My point is that I don’t find the claim that half a bus load of people would pick on a black woman, even if she was accompanied by her two children.
Please note that the subject of that comment is not the black mother, but the other passengers on the bus.
And judging by the comments in The Times, I don’t see the fact that half the passengers would automatically side with the Maltese person and take sides against the black immigrant, irrespective of who is in the wrong, to be exaggerated at all.
And yes, I do believe that many people, in the circumstances, would think twice before saying something to defend the black mother.
As for reporting the incident to the police, I believe neither side reported anyone to the police. So would you conclude that this story (any version of it) did not happen at all?
And would this mean that the black lady did not really insult or act violently towards the Maltese person, just because he did not report her to the police? That would seem to follow from your faulty logic.
Correction: My point is that I don’t find the claim that half a bus load of people would pick on a black woman, even if she was accompanied by her two children, to be exaggerated.
@ Chris:
Let me put it another way.
Someone tells me that a bus load of Maltese persons sided with a black immigrant and hurled abuse at a Maltese person – I would find that possible but not too probable.
Someone tells me that a bus load of Maltese persons sided with a Maltese person and hurled abuse at a black immigrant – I would find that very probable and credible.
And please note that I have not pulled the “black card”. We’re speaking of the general attitudes of Maltese people, and the most probable outcome of such a situation, and not who actually was right or wrong. That’s what finding a story credible or incredible entails – when there is no evidence, we take into consideration what’s highly probable, what’s mildly probable and what’s improbable.
Shameful !
Any way you look at it, this is wrong. Catholicism has nothing to do with it.
Had we taken Joseph’s advice of approximately two years ago, this incident would not have taken place at all.
We would have turned boats carrying people of colour around, fueled them up and pointed them to the direction they came from and not let them even touch our shores.
I hope you’re being sarcastic.
I don’t want to live on this planet anymore.
Being defeatist doesn’t help. There’s a fair number of groups that fight for minority rights. If the issue bothers you so much, why not do something about it?
Like what? Start sterilising people with low IQ?
There goes the Labour majority.
Just to add a bit of perspective to this story:
I take Arriva routes daily (at least twice a day on a given day) that connect to the major immigrant ‘camps’.
These routes are X4 and 82. Black people on these routes are so used to the racism that is prevalent that, even if the seat beside me is the only free seat left on the bus, dozens of blacks will not attempt to sit down until I invite one to sit beside me.
I assure you that it is not because I stink. The X4 reeks so terribly sometimes that I wonder if they have access to showers. If anyone has information on that I would love to know.
They do not even feel as if they can sit near a white person. On the X4 in particular, the back of the bendy bus is almost entirely filled with blacks, with whites sitting at the front of the bus.
Talk about segregation.
I personally find this situation rather pathetic. I wonder what sort of reception these blacks could have received that would make them feel so fundamentally rejected and unwanted by local society.
Perhaps that is special behaviour exhibited solely by Maltese people who live on those routes, but I highly, highly doubt it.
Where are you, Rosa Parks?
If anti-racist measures were in place, teachers like Louise Vella would be dismissed on the grounds that being racist would be incompatible with the values of the teaching profession.
Nobody should be allowed to work in a position of trust and at the same time to spend their free time promoting xenophobia and hatred.
What is also baffling is that papers supposedly half decent allow their readers to express racist sentiments which go uncensored.
Martin II, I believe someone mentioned a few weeks ago that Louise Vella is retired, unless I’m mistaken.
As regards racist comments being published in national newspapers, yes, unfortunately that’s true.
I trust that Ms Smith lodged a report at some police station and another one with Arriva .The bus driver should have intervened in this case.
Ha nghidha bil-Malti: “Qazziztu l’alla li halaqkom!”
Malta is being taken over by “the foreigners”? I cannot stand to read these comments anymore.
The insular mentality is prevalent more than ever now. A nation struggling with the changing times, unaware of how to behave themselves and misdirecting anger that should be towards authorities to these poor souls that are “johdulna xogholna.”
Seriously, johdulkom xogholkom?
Or perhaps doing the most tedious jobs that the Maltese refuse “ghax qed jghaddu fuq ir-relief?
Daphne, I agree with you 100% but I think that before we make this a political ping-pong game, we should all work and strive to educate the nation, to teach them the implications of, for instance using the N word towards a black person, that it is not ok, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, to make any reference to racial features whatsoever.
If this woman was really rude (as some of the comments on timesofmalta.com suggest) then she should have been dealt with as a person (not as a black illegal immigrant).
John USA, yes, there are foreigners (not necessarily Europeans) who are unqualified and who are being employed for a pittance and replacing/taking jobs which are being vacated by fired employees on a definite contract.
Here in Malta we have Indians, Pakistanis, Moroccans who don’t have any relatives here and are getting OUR jobs, and I’m not talking about people working as scavengers.
[Daphne – What makes those jobs yours, Gahan, and who is ‘we’ or ‘our’?]
We have our education system teaching Maltese people at ITS and at the same time our hotels employing untrained non-Europeans who can hardly speak English.
[Daphne – Maltese people hardly speak English, too. I’m not justifying anything here. But it needs to be said.]
Remember that Maltese economy depends mostly on tourism.
I’m pointing at non-Europeans because Europeans have a right to work here just as much as we have a right to work in their country.
If the employers offer peanuts to Maltese people who are on relief and unemployment benefits, than it goes without saying that these poor migrants are accepting wages lower than the minimum wage. And that’s abuse.
@ Gahan:
“…at the same time our hotels employing untrained non-Europeans who can hardly speak English”.
Are they breaking any rules? If yes, you may report them. If not, please get used to the fact that if hotels want to risk losing profits through an unprofessional service, it’s their call, and nobody else’s business.
Hoteliers don’t owe us anything.
@ Daphne
How about accepting work at your home from a foreign “technician” who only got his knowledge of his work the first time he set foot on Maltese soil.
Yes Maltese room attendants may be loud and their English may not be queen’s English, but it is far better than the English most of the foreigners speak, be they Russian, Ukranian or Tunisians.
@Kenneth Cassar
No rules are being broken, because the foreign office issues work permits to these non-Europeans like pastizzi.
May I remind you that Malta, like all other countries, issues work permits to non-Europeans when there should be a dire need of special skilled persons, if there are no Maltese persons willing to work in a hotel, or in the construction business (for example) than there is something which is definitely wrong in the employment sector.
Why, for example, is a great percentage of those injured or killed at work foreigners? Doesn’t this fact ring a bell for the authorities?
I am more than convinced that, come next election, Joseph’s renovated New Labour Party will ride on the disgruntlment of the unemployed people who are more than willing to accept such jobs protected with the established conditions (safety and good working conditions/pay) of our labour laws.
There are hotels which would only employ Maltese employees and there are others which are run by unprofessional foreigners.
@ Gahan:
Since no rules are being broken, you hardly can complain, can you?
And if you believe the foreign office issues work permits to “these non-Europeans” like pastizzi (because this government believes that apart from protecting refugees and asylum seekers is the decent thing to do, we’d rather have people working than stealing for a living), then vote for a far-right party.
Regarding your question as to why a great percentage of those injured or killed at work foreigners, I would assume that the most plausible answer would be that there is a high percentage of foreigners doing dangerous work that the most Maltese refuse to do.
As for your concluding paragraph, perhaps you could enlighten us on whether Joseph’s new Labour will enact laws that will prohibit employment of refugees and asylum seekers. If not, then what are you complaining about?
And may I remind you that if there really are hotels that would employ only Maltese, they are breaking the law? As for foreigners being unprofessional, well, you sure have exposed your prejudices.
@ Gahan:
I’ll answer the question you addressed to Daphne with another question. I’m sure she won’t mind.
How about everyone having the right to accept work from anyone they like, be they professional foreigners, unprofessional foreigners, professional Maltese or unprofessional Maltese?
Please don’t tell me you call yourself a Liberal.
Episodes of racism are to be expected as long as politicians keep referring to Africans as a “problem” and a “burden”.
Politicians from both parties do this but it is especially Labour ones who – for their own partisan reasons – harp on the fact that “Malta has been left alone by the EU” to face this “invasion”.
Burden sharing is intrinsically an offensive term and racial relations are one of the very few areas where political correctness is necessary and called for.
I thought there was CCTV on all the buses.
@ Francis Saliba:
Yesterday you wrote here that in The Times online, you exposed my latest blatant lie to prove who is in the habit of writing constant untruths.
Of course, I couldn’t help visiting The Times online again to see how cleverly you have exposed my “blatant lie”.
I wish you could see the smile on my face when what I found was not some exposure of a lie of mine, but your own twisting of facts in your feeble attempt to deceive readers into thinking that I actually did lie.
Let’s take a look at what you wrote.
You write that “Just to prove that is you who writes ‘constant untruths’ here is your comment on this very blog (The Times), only two days ago, where you did say clearly that the reserved area must be kept clear at all times”. And you then quote the following, which I actually did write:
“A space reserved for pushchairs remains a space reserved for pushchairs, regardless of whether the bus was full or not.”
Now, how do you conclude from the above that a space reserved for pushchairs (fact) must be kept clear at all times?
Not only did I never write that a reserved area must be kept clear at all times, but I specifically wrote that “I never said the reserved area must be kept clear at all times”.
But let me give you the benefit of the doubt, and say that you are not lying about me but have simply misunderstood. Let me spell it out for you. Please make an extra effort to understand this time.
When someone writes that a space reserved for pushchairs remains a reserved space, regardless of whether a bus is full or not, one does not mean that if there is no pushchair on board no one may use that space. It simply means that regardless of whether the bus is full or empty, if a pushchair boards the bus, people occupying the reserved space must leave the reserved space.
So please, before you accuse someone of lying, try to make an extra effort to understand what is actually written in plain simple English.
To whom it may concern (except Mr Kenneth Cassar)
My comment, today at 3:05 AM was NOT addressed at Kenneth Cassar. In his comment, (Aug 1 at 3:29 PM) Mr Cassar appointed himself spokesman for everybody else (“you have not told us”). My comment was addressed to all the others, excluding him.
In his unbridled fury he has this morning already submitted no less than four outbursts, in the short space of just over two hours, asking questions that I have already answered.
Out of the kindness of my heart I won’t be answering those missives in case he bursts a blood vessel – God forbid!
Dear Francis, I know that your comment at 3:05 AM was not addressed to me. But please pardon me for not asking your permission to comment anyway.
As for appointing myself spokesman for everybody else just because I write “you have not told us” (meaning you have not told the readers of this blog), you are now being utterly ridiculous.
As regards submitting no less than four posts (you may of course call them outbursts if you like), asking questions that you have “already answered”, well, despite no less than four posts challenging you to answer, you have yet to reply to this simple question:
In what way is calling a Maltese person a kangaroo a racist slur, and not just an insult?
You say that out of the kindness of your heart, you won’t be answering those missives (my comments and questions). Well, you have already promised you will ignore me until I improve my manners.
So much for your credibility.
“Dear Francis,
Enough of your arrogance please I AM NOT YOUR CHILD)” (Kenneth Cassar, this morning at 6:37 AM).
For this relief, much thanks. (Hamlet).
“For this relief, much thanks”.
Ah, but is it “bitter cold”, and “(are you) sick at heart.”? (Hamlet).
It’s That Man Again who assured me that he is not my son!
More silly questions that won’t get a reply.
Oh, dear Francis, for once my question was truly rhetorical. So I wasn’t expecting a reply. But weren’t you supposed to be ignoring me until I “improved on my manners”?